1309 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

slimgrin wrote...

I think Ryzaki was just advocating practical outfits over stylized ones.

If I had to guess, I'd say Ryzaki woulda been cool with the Mass Effect 2 setup if the companions had the same casual/in the field dynamic that Shepard did.  

And personally, I think that would have been much better too.

[Piecake]

I think the outfits should be made out of edible cheese products. I think it would make the love scenes a lot more interesting and hilarious.

[tmp7704]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...
EXACTLY.

I'm having serious trouble understanding the point you're trying to make, then.

I think the point is, that girls who dress provocatively "to ****** off their catholic moms" do it by dressing in manner which they know appeals to the men. Because that's what actually pisses these moms off, that the men will ogle their daughters and have thoughts about them.

So overall, no matter if the actual intent is to appeal to the men or not, the male tastes still (indirectly) drive the behaviour of these women, and their clothing patterns.

Modifié par tmp7704, 11 décembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Piecake wrote...

I think the outfits should be made out of edible cheese products. I think it would make the love scenes a lot more interesting and hilarious.

Especially if Hawke is lactose intolerant.

[PsychoBlonde]

tmp7704 wrote...

So overall, no matter if the actual intent is to appeal to the men or not, the male tastes still (indirectly) drives the behaviour of these women, and their clothing patterns.

I'd have to say no--I know far too many men who complain when women look "****ty" for this to fly.  Indirect "influences" at enough remove should be tossed out and the direct influences considered instead.  Otherwise you wind up like the evolutionary psychologists who insist that humans building skyscrapers is identical to birds building nests.  Primary motivations and influences come first.  You can consider the secondary/tertiary/quaternary/what-have-you if you really like, but when you supplant a closer one with a much further one you're fooling yourself.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 11 décembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[Adhin]

Oh yeah definitely, I've said it before and I agree with ya Mr. Shorts. ME2 companions should of had casual and 'hostile area' outfits. I liked Jack a lot, maybe not so much the appearance (shoulda been topless like concept sketch >.>) but in some acidic toxic gas planet or in a vacuum...face mask just aint cuttin' it sorry heh.

[Ryzaki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I think Ryzaki was just advocating practical outfits over stylized ones.

If I had to guess, I'd say Ryzaki woulda been cool with the Mass Effect 2 setup if the companions had the same casual/in the field dynamic that Shepard did.  

And personally, I think that would have been much better too.

Ah yes that's it.

[Liablecocksman]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I'm having serious trouble understanding the point you're trying to make, then.  You may have some misleading misplaced "nots" and so forth in some of your posts.  Make more effort to be clear and you won't get misinterpreted as badly.

Please don't make arguing with you even more incredibly dumbfounding than it already is.

Here is what you said, and that which my first post replied to:

you're getting to see leg because SHE decided she wants it that way and not because she's hoping YOU will like it that way.

It implies that the woman (Isabela) simply decided that is how she wants her damn boots, and she couldn't care less what people think of it, right?

Then you say:

I know tons of women who dress provocatively (in an aggressive fashion) not because they think guys like it but because they like making guys UNCOMFORTABLE.

Which is essentially completely contradictory, because why would guys be uncomfortable if they didn't like it? They are only uncomfortable because they are enticed, but only not really able to act upon their desire, since the woman is not interested.

You follow it up:

They don't give a crap about whether you *approve* or not, they're just looking for a reaction of *some* kind.

We aren't talking about approval, we are talking about dressing because you want to dress a certain way(which was your original argument about the boots), or dressing a certain way because you want to get a reaction (which was my initial and continued argument, and is, quite essentially, what you are saying right here).

My posts weren't the ones not making sense, yours were.
Please don't force your own inability to write coherently unto me, in an effort to seem less silly in this given debate.

The fact is that I had a stand from the start, which was different from yours.
You then, inadvertently, I guess? Start agreeing with my standpoint.

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 11 décembre 2010 - 08:11 .

[Ryzaki]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah yes because we all know wanting someone to look like they're about to go into a fight means you're anti-sexiness.

Well, and keep in mind that "ready to go into a fight" != "ready to go into battle".  A skirmish is not the same thing as a war.

You can be ready to fight pretty much all the time in any clothing, you just may have to seriously adjust your tactics if you ain't wearing your Badass Armor Suit at the time.

[slimgrin]

At first I liked Isabella's outfit, but next to some of the other companions, it looks a little outlandish.

The artists are on a fine line here when it comes to balancing style with logic. I think most western rpg fans prefer aesthetics that reflect functionality.

Modifié par slimgrin, 11 décembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

So, what if Isabela's look was designed by a woman? Would this argument be different?

[PsychoBlonde]

Liable****sman wrote...

Which is essentially completely contradictory . . .

THAT IS THE POINT . . . that there are many contradictory possible reasons for this or that outcome and people who assign ONE reason and assume that's the only possible reason and start attempting to psychoanalyze Isabela (or the devs) as a result are just being silly.

[Ryzaki]

No because it still would look ridiculous.

Edit: So Isabela wears her outfit because she has mommy issues? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 décembre 2010 - 08:12 .

[tmp7704]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I'd have to say no--I know far too many men who complain when women look "****ty" for this to fly.

But it's not something that either these girls and their moms actually take into account and bank on when it comes to these outfits, is it? I mean, when a girl dresses up provocatively to ****** her mom off she know her mom will be pissed because she'll presume men will in generally enjoy the free show and take her daughter to indeed be a ****, not that few of them may complain.

[upsettingshorts]

Pseudocognition wrote...

So, what if Isabela's look was designed by a woman? Would this argument be different?

As long as we're going to infer intent, not really no.  I'm trying not to do that though.

[Adhin]

I'm pretty sure the writers who write the characters talk to the concept artist about what they think they'd ware, and help pick out what they feel represents there character the most (though the higher ups always have the final say). And if I remember, didn't a lady write Isabela? If so ehh... good chance she picked the outfits out for Isabela's look cause she liked them, and thought they fit.

[slimgrin]

Pseudocognition wrote...

So, what if Isabela's look was designed by a woman? Would this argument be different?

Not by much. They are to trying emphasize individuality in your team mates. That's the team's goal. The outcome will be the same.

Modifié par slimgrin, 11 décembre 2010 - 08:16 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Ryzaki wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ah yes because we all know wanting someone to look like they're about to go into a fight means you're anti-sexiness.

Well, and keep in mind that "ready to go into a fight" != "ready to go into battle".  A skirmish is not the same thing as a war.

You can be ready to fight pretty much all the time in any clothing, you just may have to seriously adjust your tactics if you ain't wearing your Badass Armor Suit at the time.

What, it's true.  As long as the clothing is comfortable and allows mobility, it's fight-ready.  War gear (and practice gear) goes to extreme lengths of practicality because you can expect to be using it for *extended* periods of time under extreme conditions--not only will you potentially be fighting in it, you'll also potentially be climbing walls, crawling under barbed wire, jumping from helicopters, and in circumstances where you can't replace it if it gets terribly soiled/torn.

[Liablecocksman]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...

Which is essentially completely contradictory . . .

THAT IS THE POINT . . . that there are many contradictory possible reasons for this or that outcome and people who assign ONE reason and assume that's the only possible reason and start attempting to psychoanalyze Isabela (or the devs) as a result are just being silly.

Please also provide an answer to my blatant stomping of you in the "incohorent posts" department.

Also, weren't you the one "psychoanalyzing" Isabela, because you were damn sure she just wore those boots because that is how she wanted to wear those boots? I quote:

Maybe not more subtle, but it certainly changes the character of the
invitation, from "oo, hope you like what you see" to "like what you
see?  Well, I'd better like something I see (or hear) too, or YOU ain't
gettin' THAT." *z-snap*, which is a more subtle declaration.  It
emphasizes that she has independence and power of her own and that
you're getting to see leg because SHE decided she wants it that way and
not because she's hoping YOU will like it that way.

And I'm sure
there are a myriad of reasons for the design decisions, but it's not
appropriate to attempt to psychoanalyze the artists/art director.  Take
it for what it is.

This post is particularly funny.
You manage to offer an attempt of analyzation of Isabelas costume, while afterwards asking that people stop doing that, since they can't know the actual reasoning behind it.

Are you being purposefully obtuse, or is this merely... Accidental?

[PsychoBlonde]

tmp7704 wrote...

But it's not something that either these girls and their moms actually take into account and bank on when it comes to these outfits, is it? I mean, when a girl dresses up provocatively to ****** her mom off she know her mom will be pissed because she'll presume men will in generally enjoy the free show and take her daughter to indeed be a ****, not that few of them may complain.

People are rarely this simplistic.  I know my mom was generally more concerned that people would see her as being a bad parent than worrying I'd actually get into trouble if I attracted a bunch of looks.  Motivations can be very complicated and multi-layered.

[Ryzaki]

PsychoBlonde wrote...


What, it's true.  As long as the clothing is comfortable and allows mobility, it's fight-ready.  War gear (and practice gear) goes to extreme lengths of practicality because you can expect to be using it for *extended* periods of time under extreme conditions--not only will you potentially be fighting in it, you'll also potentially be climbing walls, crawling under barbed wire, jumping from helicopters, and in circumstances where you can't replace it if it gets terribly soiled/torn.

Yes because Isabela is going to be climbing walls, climbing under barbed wire, jumping from helicopoters and trasking through the jungle for years on a reconissane mission.

[Ryzaki]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

But it's not something that either these girls and their moms actually take into account and bank on when it comes to these outfits, is it? I mean, when a girl dresses up provocatively to ****** her mom off she know her mom will be pissed because she'll presume men will in generally enjoy the free show and take her daughter to indeed be a ****, not that few of them may complain.

People are rarely this simplistic.  I know my mom was generally more concerned that people would see her as being a bad parent than worrying I'd actually get into trouble if I attracted a bunch of looks.  Motivations can be very complicated and multi-layered.

Actually if you take into account why their outfit would make others think the mother is a bad parent it's not as complicated as you make it out to be.

[PsychoBlonde]

Liable****sman wrote...

This post is particularly funny.
You manage to offer an attempt of analyzation of Isabelas costume, while afterwards asking that people stop doing that, since they can't know the actual reasoning behind it.

Are you being purposefully obtuse, or is this merely... Accidental?

No, I'm saying that there are many possible analyses by providing examples.  I'm not saying: this is the correct analysis.  Hence why my further examples will often contradict my prior examples--because I'm not saying "this is the analysis".  I'm saying "don't assume there's only one possibility."

[Ryzaki]

Are you serious? You're saying Isabela a woman who is very sexual and flaunts it is wearing the outfit for some other reason?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 décembre 2010 - 08:22 .

[upsettingshorts]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes because Isabela is going to be climbing walls, climbing under barbed wire, jumping from helicopoters and trasking through the jungle for years on a reconissane mission.

Why should we expect the characters to know they're in a Bioware game and pitched battle after pitched battle is what they're in for?