1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Ortaya Alevli]

Apparently not wearing armour is cheating.
[/quote]
Just one thing. If the enemy is inexperienced or ignorant enough of the workings of the world they're living in to indulge in such careless assumptions and waltz in just like that, they deserve to be gutted in such an insulting way. As a real life soldier has a basic idea of what they may face on the battlefield, so an enemy in the game should be aware of the possible applications of enchantment and the like.

Not so much cheating as taking advantage of the oversight on the enemy's part.

[errant_knight]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

The character just never did it for me  

I see.

Eartha Kitt was the awesomest.

[Collider]

In DA:O the player and the party could save Ferelden naked.

[Briana]

but some times its good to catch your enemy off gaurd always use the element of surprise when facing youe enemyand thats not cheating thats strategy you don"t want your enemy to know what your going to do next.

[In Exile]

Liable****sman wrote...
I was under the impression that we were discussing Isabelas character, and her duelist-like specialization... Not some convoluted set of metagaming theories on the gameworld.

We are discussing whether or not there is some in-setting justification for not wearing armour. There clearly is. And, if we are going to take ''cheating'' as an indication of her character,

Ortaya Alevli wrote...
Just one thing. If the enemy is
inexperienced or ignorant enough of the workings of the world they're
living in to indulge in such careless assumptions and waltz in just like
that, they deserve to be gutted in such an insulting way. As a real
life soldier has a basic idea of what they may face on the battlefield,
so an enemy in the game should be aware of the possible applications of
enchantment and the like.

Given the unknown rarity of enchantment, it's not at all clear what peopl would do. My point is rather that if we assume that apparently not wearing armour is the equivalent to not wearing armour in our world, then behaviour based on that is in-setting silly.

Isabella could be wearing the equivalent of armour in-game. Magic allows for this. She could then fight just like someone in armour would while aesthetically not looking it, with no difference.

If for whatever reason people want to say her personally is such that she would wear armour, we could create an argument where not wearing armour is perfectly consistent with that personality - i.e. stacking the deck.

Not so much cheating as taking
advantage of the oversight on the enemy's part.

Stacking the deck is taking advantage of the oversight on the part of the other player to not check the deck.

[Ortaya Alevli]

In Exile wrote...

Given the unknown rarity of enchantment, it's not at all clear what peopl would do. My point is rather that if we assume that apparently not wearing armour is the equivalent to not wearing armour in our world, then behaviour based on that is in-setting silly.

Isabella could be wearing the equivalent of armour in-game. Magic allows for this. She could then fight just like someone in armour would while aesthetically not looking it, with no difference.

If for whatever reason people want to say her personally is such that she would wear armour, we could create an argument where not wearing armour is perfectly consistent with that personality - i.e. stacking the deck.

This will be clearer when (or rather, if) we get an in-game exposition of how this new gameplay feature is explained lore-wise. Either clothing enchantment will be acknowledged and justified in dialogue or another similar information source, or it will be left hanging in the air and come across as a form of segregation which tends to be interpreted as regular clothing having adequate protective qualities - indeed a rather silly conception, realistically or otherwise.

Then again, DA2 will not be the first game where people engage in swordfights in their clothes, and it's not like such battles have never been pulled of well enough in the past.

Stacking the deck is taking advantage of the oversight on the part of the other player to not check the deck.

While stacking the deck is against the rules and the opponents trust each other's goodwill. Cheating comes into play when the rules are broken. I'd argue this is not the case when a DA2 character fights in ordinary-looking clothing stacked with magical runes. At worst it falls under false pretense category.

Not that I'd expect Isabela to shy away from doing so even if it were genuine cheating. Her sportsmanship is questionable at best.

[Iakus]

I think fixed campaign outfits are risky.



If the player likes them, or doesn't care, there's no problem.



If the player doesn't like them, there's not a thing that can be done about it.



If a player REALLY doesn't like the outfit, that companion may well end up "guarding the campsite"

[Ziggeh]

iakus wrote...
that companion may well end up "guarding the campsite"

I believe that's literally Avelines job.

[Aermas]

We have seen what runes do, & they come no where near the expectant level of protection that armor has, even Grandmaster Runes, the cream of the crop. Clothing + runes is much less effective than equal cost Armor, + or - runes.

[Maria Caliban]

errant_knight wrote...

Eartha Kitt was the awesomest.

/makes errant_knight her new best friend.

[Maria Caliban]

iakus wrote...

I think fixed campaign outfits are risky.

If the player likes them, or doesn't care, there's no problem.

If the player doesn't like them, there's not a thing that can be done about it.

If a player REALLY doesn't like the outfit, that companion may well end up "guarding the campsite"

This is no more risky than having the PC meet the companion when the companion tries to assassinate them. Zevran never even made it to many campsites.

Or what about introducing a love interest as a 'crazy Chantry priestess' or a companion as a seemingly unrepentant murderer? Or the man who killed all the other Grey Wardens and has been the villain for most the story?

BioWare seems quite content with you killing off or ignoring the majority of the companions, so I don't think they'll be bothered about a player sitting Isabela in camp because they don't like her outfit. After all, the player will leave the majority of characters in camp for one reason or another.

[GodWood]

Because of her outfit Miranda only left the Normandy twice.
Once, because I had to take her on the first mission (but even than that was only to get Zaeed)
And a second time for her LM.

EDIT: God I'm feeling dyslexic today.

Modifié par GodWood, 13 décembre 2010 - 06:42 .

[Maria Caliban]

Pardon? Thanks for the edit.

GodWood wrote...

Because of her outfit Miranda only left the Normandy twice.
Once for because I had to take her on the first mission (but even than that was only to get Zaeed)
And a second time for her LM.

I didn't use Miranda as well for my first playthrough but that has nothing to do with the outfit.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 décembre 2010 - 06:39 .

[upsettingshorts]

I think he means that due to his issues with Miranda's outfit, he elected not to choose her for any missions for which she was not required.

I'd be critical of that point of view if I didn't find myself doing the same thing with Jack. 

Edit: Edited, so... disregard.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 décembre 2010 - 06:40 .

[Ortaya Alevli]

Edits make the world go round.

[Ryzaki]

Ha! I ended up doing the same thing with Jack and Miranda too.



And forget about taking anyone who wasn't Garrus on Tali's loyalty mission >_>

[Maria Caliban]

Jack was awesome and looked it. Jack was the reason I asked for companion outfits in DA 2.

None of the outfits bothered me until the vacuum and toxic planets.

Then again, Dragon Age: Origins had a free flowing lava fountain in the middle of a public area where everyone wore regular clothing. Really, everyone in the surrounding area ought to be dead. That bothers me more than Isabela's pantlessness.

[wwwwowwww]

Maria Caliban wrote...

What do you think of fixed companion outfits? I like them as I think they add to the personality of the character. I also understand they're less resource intensive. For example, the developers have suggested that if Sten wasn't a party member, the qunari in Origins would have had horns. Because he was, and because you could dress him as you pleased, they would have had to make a unique Sten-only version of all the helmets in game.

At the same time, why not just get rid of his ability to wear a helmet? I mean, he's a guy with horns. That seems like a logical reason to not allow the PC to give him one.

I like the idea,  it keeps the personality and feel of the characters in place and makes them unique and interesting. Also feel like it allows me as a player to focus more on my character and not worry so much about making sure everyone else is outfitted.

I stated it before, I wish Morrigans outfit would have upgraded as she leveled up because once I changed her into a more powerful outfit she no longer felt like Morrigan to me, just another mage in a generic party.

[Adhin]

Yeah 100% agree with ya Maria. ME2 its a bit more glaring just because of Vacuum and toxic areas but I still loved Jack. Heh one of my favorite line as manshep is in her romance stuff. She pushes away you relate your self as being undead... I at least found it all amusing.

Other then Orzammar DA doesn't really have environments where armor would somehow keep you alive over being naked so that should be less of a problem. I do hope ME3 gives the companions combat and non-combat (or hostile/non-hostile environment) outfits. As for DA2, well I like where its going and I think the only character biowares ever made that I just couldn't really stand dealing with is Jacob, and that mostly cause he comes off as an ass later on and sometimes the way he talks comes off as cheesy 1-liners. like a B-rated action movie.

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jack was awesome

Agreed!

Maria Caliban wrote...

and looked it.

Agree to disagree!

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 décembre 2010 - 07:14 .

[Ryzaki]

I don't think anything would help you running around near lava. Maybe the dwarves have some weird immunity to the heat?

And I'll agree to disagree on the outfits, between Jack's ridculous nipple belt, Miranda's catsuit, Samara looking like a berry, Grunt having one arm exposed, Thane's exposed chest, Jacob's...whatever the hell he was wearing, Legion's hole, and Garrus' busted armor my Shepard was wonder why the hell was he the only one completey covered? I wouldn't have minded some exposed MaleShep arms.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 décembre 2010 - 07:17 .

[Altima Darkspells]

Collider wrote...

In DA:O the player and the party could save Ferelden naked.

My Warden killed the Archdemon in a wedding dress.

Too bad there wasn't a Blur video for her.

[Piecake]

Aermas wrote...

We have seen what runes do, & they come no where near the expectant level of protection that armor has, even Grandmaster Runes, the cream of the crop. Clothing + runes is much less effective than equal cost Armor, + or - runes.

Pretty foolish to assume that runes will be exactly the same as they were in DAO for DA2