1309 réponses à ce sujet

[inclemency]

Lol, I hate ME2 with as much passion as I love DA:O

[Adhin]

@inclemency: This brings me to that point I was trying to make earlier is that - your not Isabella, your not roleplaying as Isabella. Try thinking of her as your friend instead of an extension of your self. Do you smack your friends and force them to wear clothing YOU dictate? I understand wanting to dress up the whole party. I enjoy it and do it whenever I get the chance to. But it does make sense not having the ability to do it to that extent.

And its not like they took the ability away from you to dress up YOUR character in armor and non-revealing outfits. That's still very much alive for you. Worlds made up of all kinds, and while I agree fantasy settings often have every girl (more or less) half naked at least DA gives ladies full armor that doesn't magically show legs, ass and cleavage all over the place. Even if my male mind giggles with excitement when I do see that, which is a little sad but whatever.

I guess what I'm getting as is, while they have a character that's showing off her body, at least it makes 'sense' for Isabella to do so. The rest where it doesn't make sense, they're not.

[Maria Caliban]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

I just think this is setting a bad precedent, and considering they've never done this before, it worries me. Why fix what isn't broken? 

They have done this before. With ME 2.

And that worked terribly. ME2 was basically an FPS with a RPG elements.

Okay. You just seemed unaware of an element that exists in a game you obviously owned.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

leonia42 wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

I just think this is setting a bad precedent, and considering they've never done this before, it worries me. Why fix what isn't broken? 

They have done this before. With ME 2.

And that worked terribly. ME2 was basically an FPS with a RPG elements.

What does FPS with RPG elements have to do with the clothing?

It shows how they oversimplified the RPG elements of the game. Rather than an RPG with FPS elements it became an FPS with RPG elements.

Maria Caliban wrote...



What? Kratos is an excellent example of characterization.

Not really, considering he's just generic bald testosterone pumped clown.

ziggehunderslash wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...
Why fix what isn't broken?

Because it was broken, or at least a problem. It severely limited character models and animations. 

I disagree, on both accounts.

Modifié par TonyTheBossDanza123, 11 décembre 2010 - 03:12 .

[Sharn01]

I can live with it, I prefer the finding armor and robes for my companions to wear, but its not like this is a game breaking option.



I do however feel that whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Once you decide the npcs are going to be going with style over practicallity, you need to do the same thing for PC. We should be designing Hawk's outfit in an editor screen from several options, that way everyone in the game gets to look good on the battle field. I have a feeling all the npcs will look good, while Hawke looks like a hobo in crappy armor or robes and quite possibly sever clipping issues on it.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Maria Caliban wrote...


Okay. You just seemed unaware of an element that exists in a game you obviously owned.

Oh I was aware of it, I was just going to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt and not mention it.

[inclemency]

Adhin wrote...

@inclemency: This brings me to that point I was trying to make earlier is that - your not Isabella, your not roleplaying as Isabella. Try thinking of her as your friend instead of an extension of your self. Do you smack your friends and force them to wear clothing YOU dictate? I understand wanting to dress up the whole party. I enjoy it and do it whenever I get the chance to. But it does make sense not having the ability to do it to that extent.
And its not like they took the ability away from you to dress up YOUR character in armor and non-revealing outfits. That's still very much alive for you. Worlds made up of all kinds, and while I agree fantasy settings often have every girl (more or less) half naked at least DA gives ladies full armor that doesn't magically show legs, ass and cleavage all over the place. Even if my male mind giggles with excitement when I do see that, which is a little sad but whatever.
I guess what I'm getting as is, while they have a character that's showing off her body, at least it makes 'sense' for Isabella to do so. The rest where it doesn't make sense, they're not.

Yeah, but I'm the one who has to look at her.  And, making it personal, if a friend of mine showed up in a comparable outfit, she would be sent home to change, or just sent home.  No one I actually know irl would ever dress like that, for one.    I just am very very disappointed in this change, kinda gives me a stomach ache.  The writing better be amazing.

[Wicked 702]

Ms. Lovey Dovey wrote...

I love he idea of the multiple unique outfits. It should turn out great, if done correctly.

That's the problem. As far as we know now, there's not any "multiple" unique outfits but rather one for each person. Apparently Aveline? is the only companion that gets two? So far anyway...

Modifié par Wicked 702, 11 décembre 2010 - 03:14 .

[Leonia]

Yeah, where's my popcorn, I'm just going to watch this show.



*takes a shot every time she spots a fallacy*

[Ziggeh]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Because it was broken, or at least a problem. It severely limited character models and animations. 

I disagree, on both accounts.

You can't really disagree with the second part. It just did. You can say you didn't feel it was a problem that everyone ran like a gorilla and that women had shoulders a linebacker would be proud of, but I would at least hope you'd understand that others might see it that way.

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 11 décembre 2010 - 03:17 .

[Ziggeh]

leonia42 wrote...

*takes a shot every time she spots a fallacy*

Jesus, I'd phone for the ambulance now.

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Because it was broken, or at least a problem. It severely limited character models and animations. 

I disagree, on both accounts.

You can't really disagree with the second part. It just did. You can say you didn't feel it was a problem that everyone ran like a gorilla and that women had shoulders a linebacker would be proud of, but I would at least hope you'd understand that others might.

That is what I'm saying. I guess it would be a problem for some, but it wasn't for me. And personally I'd take DAO's system over DA2 any day. The lack of customization is just not worth the better clipping.

[PsychoBlonde]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

That's a cop out. Good writing is the core part of a good story based game. On top of that, this isn't just "visual", it's also audio and literary. You can't tell a good story with just visuals, you need to compliment it.

No one said it didn't need good writing. They're saying that visuals complimenting it is a good thing.

Again i understand that, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I just don't think the developers should rely on it.

At present, the medium still isn't QUITE developed enough for the visuals to carry that much weight.  Keep in mind that a really good actor can convey a LOT through facial expressions and body language (which are visuals), and that doing this well is all a part of acting.  When they screw it up, we're likely to say that the DIALOG is stilted/stiff/whatever, but it's very often the delivery that is lacking.  

One of the really awesome aspects of a medium with visuals is that you can do a lot WITH the visuals.  That scene where Teagan does his little dance bit is a prime example of this--there's basically no dialog there, but just from watching him dancing around while Connor claps you instantly figure out what's going on and the essential character of the circumstances.

Integration is important.  I'd like to see more dialog responses that are just *facial expression* or *cross arms* or *grunt* rather than a full dialog line.  I don't like that every conversation with your companions starts with this exchange of:  "Hello PC.  Did you want something?"  "I'd like to talk." and then a bunch of options from there.  I realize that some of this is to keep the conversation options organized, but the sorting-through-menu-trees selections don't actually have to come up as you saying something--remember back in NwN when the NPC's would talk for a bit, they'd just have a "continue" option?  You didn't actually say "Okay, tell me the rest".

Okay, this is getting off topic, but my point is that there's nothing odd about wanting things to look appropriate.  If you don't care how things look at all, why not play a text-based game and be done with it?

[Leonia]

I can count the number of unique outfits in DA:O on one hand. That was some super awesome customisation!



*downs a shot*

[Adhin]

@Wicked 702: See your talking about 'scaling' that's the easier part of it all. That's how they handled the difference between dwarves, elves and humans last game. The resource intensive part is making unique 'models' and textures to represent every little thing. That's one of the reasons everything was so damn plane in the last game. Also animation is outside of that as well, more or less. They use animation sets (thankfully unique per-race/sex this time around) so that's also not part of the resource intensive thing we're talking about.

Each outfit takes time, artistic concept on paper, to all the processes of deciding what to go with to getting it implemented. It takes 'time', a good bit of it. and having to do that tons of times over... its just would take up to many resources. The very fact people seem to constantly look down on art as being this simple little 'oh its no big deal, make tons of it' seriously is a bit insulting. More so in a game when they have extra processes to go through to pick everything they want and ensure it fits.

As for clothing being 'adding to character' I think its more or less the other way around. Clothing is there to represent the character (which I guess adds to in a round-about way). Movies and plays tend to pay a lot of attention to it, to the point they're have jobs specifically to ensure people are all waring 'exactly' what that character would be waring based off there personality/job. To discount that as being pointless is also an insult.

[Ryzaki]

Yes so having 5 outfits to choose from is somehow having less customization than one. And being able to choose between 5 and being forced into one is somehow less too.



Okay then.

[inclemency]

leonia42 wrote...

I can count the number of unique outfits in DA:O on one hand. That was some super awesome customisation!

*downs a shot*

Lol, don't ever look at my game mods blog

[Liablecocksman]

It is an absolutely horrific change.
I didn't like it in ME, and I sure hell will dislike it even more in DA2, as I would have expected more from that game.

leonia42 wrote...

I can count the number of unique outfits in DA:O on one hand. That was some super awesome customisation!

*downs a shot*

It was, yeah.
They looked the same, but who cares? I was able to make Morrigan an Arcane Warrior and make her wear plate armour.

I can't do that in DA2.
I can't do anything like it.

DA2 is just being "Streamlined" like ME2 was.
Except DA2 is watering down the RPG-elements of an actual RPG-game, where-as ME2 watered down the RPG-elements of an FPS-RPG bastard child.

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 11 décembre 2010 - 03:23 .

[Leonia]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes so having 5 outfits to choose from is somehow having less customization than one. And being able to choose between 5 and being forced into one is somehow less too.

Okay then.

Quality over quantity my friend, quality over quantity.

[PsychoBlonde]

leonia42 wrote...

I can count the number of unique outfits in DA:O on one hand. That was some super awesome customisation!

*downs a shot*

That's a scary hand.  Off the top of my head I can recall:

Leather Armor Appearance
Studded Leather Armor Appearance
feathered shoulder mage robe
standard mage robe
splint armor appearance
chain armor appearance
dwarven armor appearance
heavy chain armor appearance
full plate armor appearance
ceremonial full plate armor appearance (the one with the bas-relief dragon head)
templar armor appearance (armor skirt)

Although, um, I really think that's about it.

[inclemency]

Where did 5 outfits come from?

[Wicked 702]

Adhin wrote...

@Wicked 702: See your talking about 'scaling' that's the easier part of it all. That's how they handled the difference between dwarves, elves and humans last game. The resource intensive part is making unique 'models' and textures to represent every little thing. That's one of the reasons everything was so damn plane in the last game. Also animation is outside of that as well, more or less. They use animation sets (thankfully unique per-race/sex this time around) so that's also not part of the resource intensive thing we're talking about.

In other words you are saying that unique armor vs. scaled generic armor is MORE resource intensive, thereby agreeing with my statement that the resource argument is only a half-truth.