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[Spornicus]

Vaenier wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Gee I don't know.
Every 50 000 years they do "little" genocide and they done it a lot of time, they have no mercy, make zombies from other races or make sick experiments on them, do not negotiate unless can be used as tools, don't care who they kill, destroyed cultures...

Maybe we are just food to them. I wonder if cows think we are complete evil when we keep them on farms and raise them for the sole purpose of consuming their flesh to grow...

The difference is we don't completely eradicate cows and then move on to another species when our supply of cows is up.

We are doing that to whales. and Reapers just like variety in their meals. They could easily just farm us, but instead they chose to hunt. Give us a fighting chance. They are quite sporting.

No we aren't. Name three whales species that have gone extinct because of humans.

[Sable Phoenix]

So... what does Shepard say if you killed the Rachni queen back in ME1? Apparently nobody does kill the queen because I've never seen the dialog option for that when talking to Vasir in LOTSB.

It would be really interesting if someone who killed both the Council and the Rachni Queen chose the Paragon intimidation option for that convo.  What does Shepard say then?  And how is any of it Paragon?  The Paragon option actually sounds more Renegade than the Renegade one, where you just insult Vasir and tell her how the little asari girls ought stop playing at badass and stick to stripping.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 11 décembre 2010 - 09:47 .

[Eber]

The paragon line you get if you made renegade choices reads:

Shepard: Vasir, I let the Destiny Ascension die with 10,000 people onboard -- including the Council. I personally destroyed the last rachni queen. So for your sake I hope your plan doesn't hinge on me hesitating to shoot a damn hostage!

Notice how Shepard let the Destiny Ascension "die" and "destroyed" the last rachni queen. Someone got their verbs mixed up or something? Anyway it's a more convincing argument than the pure paragon one if you ask me. It shows that you really are willing to shoot if you have to. Meanwhile releasing the rachni and saving the Council doesn't make you more intimidating. Rather it serves to demonstrate an aversion to killing and death that should only strengthen Vasir in her resolve. The thing that's paragon about this line is that the goal is a peaceful outcome I suppose (the renegade line has Shepard saying he/she is to shoot the hostage). Still it could just as easily have been a renegade line. It would fit better as such.

Modifié par Eber, 11 décembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[Vaenier]

Eber wrote...

The paragon line you get if you made renegade choices reads:

Shepard: Vasir, I let the Destiny Ascension die with 10,000 people onboard -- including the Council. I personally destroyed the last rachni queen. So for your sake I hope your plan doesn't hinge on me hesitating to shoot a damn hostage!

lmao, that is the Paragon line? wow...

[RiouHotaru]

You know, prior to the Queen, people didn't think the Rachni were capable of intelligent communication. Just because all the interactions have been hostile previously doesn't negate the fact that "Oh yeah, they ARE sapient." And then the queen makes statements which are interpreted as "We were being mind-controlled into attacking people."



This makes it questionable to just kill her on the basis that since the Rachni were once a threat, they are always a threat. The information the Queen gives you changes that perspective. And if you want to argue that she's lying because she's about to die, that's horsecrap. She lets you decide her fate freely. Yes, she freaks out if you try to kill her, that's survival instinct, not deceit. I mean really.



Also, this whole "The Rachni could be indoctrinated AGAIN" argument also falls flat because wee don't know how much exposure it takes to indoctrinate a whole species like that. I mean, Shepard and crew take a stroll through the dead Reaper without nary a tingle in their thoughts. So it's not like one brief glance of Reaper rays and suddenly BAD BUGS ALL OVER AGAIN.



Also, it won't be a plothole if the Rachni biotech is somehow better than the Citadel tech, the Rachni are even OLDER than the Citadel races, they just aren't very expansionist.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Vasir line is one of the few times the Paragon line is unreservedly badass. Sad, but true.

Would have worked better as a Renegade line than the Renegade line. Maybe the Paragon option should have been to bore Vasir into lowering her guard before Liara attacked?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 11 décembre 2010 - 11:29 .

[Eber]

RiouHotaru wrote...
Also, this whole "The Rachni could be indoctrinated AGAIN" argument also falls flat because wee don't know how much exposure it takes to indoctrinate a whole species like that. I mean, Shepard and crew take a stroll through the dead Reaper without nary a tingle in their thoughts. So it's not like one brief glance of Reaper rays and suddenly BAD BUGS ALL OVER AGAIN.

We can assume it takes less effort to get the rachni to collectivly throw a hissy fit compared to the humanoid species given how the queens control the rest through songs. All you have to do is make the queen sing false and all rachni turn violent.

When we speak, one moves all

[RiouHotaru]

True, but this time the Rachni KNOW something was wrong, so they won't make the same mistake twice.

[PauseforEffect]

People are surprised that Paragons can be intimidating? The renegade dialogue of mocking Vasir was not surprising as I've seen far more immature comments (breathe all over a Quarian ship, good lord Shepard, can you sound any more childish?)

Shepard is a Spectre; paragon or renegade, both get the job done. In this case, paragons are simply stating the truth of what was done instead of stooping to petty insults

[Zulu_DFA]

RiouHotaru wrote...
And then the queen makes statements which are interpreted as "We were being mind-controlled into attacking people."

Please, remind me, which Rachni queen quote (from ME1) can be interpreted this way.

[Zulu_DFA]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Vasir line is one of the few times the Paragon line is unreservedly badass. Sad, but true.

Would have worked better as a Renegade line than the Renegade line. Maybe the Paragon option should have been to bore Vasir into lowering her guard before Liara attacked?

The Renegade line should have been:

[break her neck] "You've got bigger problems now to worry about".

[Dean_the_Young]

RiouHotaru wrote...

True, but this time the Rachni KNOW something was wrong, so they won't make the same mistake twice.

What mistake?

It's not like being indoctrinated is a choice.

[CroGamer002]

"1000 years ago Rachni posed threat to galaxy and went extinct, now they are saving our asses."

[PauseforEffect]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote... True, but this time the Rachni KNOW something was wrong, so they won't make the same mistake twice.

What mistake? It's not like being indoctrinated is a choice.

More like the Rachni will be better prepared, like Cerberus will try to be as some people predict

[Dean_the_Young]

PrimalEden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote... True, but this time the Rachni KNOW something was wrong, so they won't make the same mistake twice.

What mistake? It's not like being indoctrinated is a choice.

More like the Rachni will be better prepared, like Cerberus will try to be as some people predict

The Rachni have Reaper technology from the Collector Base to study and analyze in order to try and discover countermeasures to indoctrination? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

The huge risk with Rachni is all it takes is to indoctrinate the one Queen and all of the rachni will fight us. Even if, for the sake of argument, the Collector base can indoctrinate a few Cerberus operatives (ignoring what Cerberus can learn about it and counter it), the indoctrination of a few agents is not like the indoctrination of a Rachni queen.

Now the question is, will the Rachni Queen join the war herself? Will the Reapers find her? If they do, all they have to do is kill her or better yet indoctrinate her and then they can thank you for providing them with shock troops.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Do we really know that all it takes is the indoctrination of the queen? I can believe an indoctrinated queen will bring up unquestioning subjects, but adult Rachni aren't dependent on the Queen.

[TexasToast712]

What's Vasir's renegade line? I never have enough points to do either Paragon or Renegade as I go Destroyer instead of Champion on my Vanguard. I just go for the badass line that you get by shooting the hostage which is so freaking awesome.

Shepard : Good move taking a hostage, Spectres do what ever it takes to get the job done, but your forgetting one thing Vasir......
Vasir:

Shepard: Iam a Spectre too! *Shoots hostage in arm* POW POW POW!

Sounds so cool with the Phalanx pistol.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:55 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Do we really know that all it takes is the indoctrination of the queen? I can believe an indoctrinated queen will bring up unquestioning subjects, but adult Rachni aren't dependent on the Queen.

Aren't they?
It's been a while since I played ME, but I was under the impression that it worked like a hive mind and that the Queens control their species via "songs" (a la Archdemon come to think of it).

[PauseforEffect]

*shrug* just saying Dean, some people think the Rachni have their own resources to counter the Reapers just as some people think Cerberus will have something to counter in their own way. ME3 will tell the tale.

[Lvl20DM]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
And then the queen makes statements which are interpreted as "We were being mind-controlled into attacking people."

Please, remind me, which Rachni queen quote (from ME1) can be interpreted this way.

It's in there. The Queen describes a "note from space" that "sours her mother's music" or somesuch. When I heard that I assumed that they had been indoctrinated and it was one of the reasons that I released the Queen on my first play-through. 

[Kudara]

For those arguing that past history justifies you killing the Rachni, I'd be damn cautious.



Looking at human history from that perspective then any alien race would be entirely justified in wiping us out before we ever entered space.



Talk about a case of removing the plank from one's eye before trying to remove the splinter from someone else's.



Be careful where you logic may take you, it might end up being where no one wants to go.

[RiouHotaru]

Lvl20DM wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
And then the queen makes statements which are interpreted as "We were being mind-controlled into attacking people."

Please, remind me, which Rachni queen quote (from ME1) can be interpreted this way.

It's in there. The Queen describes a "note from space" that "sours her mother's music" or somesuch. When I heard that I assumed that they had been indoctrinated and it was one of the reasons that I released the Queen on my first play-through. 

This.