46 réponses à ce sujet

[Cypher0020]

So I restarted my VG profile from the Collector ship, taking the SR instead.... figured why not give the Viper some love because I preffered the oneshot Mantis.....


Woooow. I slapped cryo ammo on that baby, and...well...Collectors and Geth...died....quickly...Mercs died... lots of people have really


But quick question regarding the Viper.... is it worth it to upgrade it all the way? I think I have 2 or 3/5 for the sniper rifle... and get the sniper bonus upgrade?

Do squaddies take the Viper or the Mantis?

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I always upgrade everything as far as I can. I've never seen the point of not doing so, as money and resources are plentiful in this game. Even for the Viper, which is mostly about rapid fire bodyshots, I still see no point in witholding from max upgrades..

[lazuli]

For squadmates, ideally you want them to be using the Incisor. If you don't have the requisite DLC for the Incisor, I would stick to the Mantis for them.

[Schneidend]

Definitely worth it to fully upgrade sniper rifles if you plan to use them. The Viper has the potential for an entire clip of multiple headshots. That's a lot of damage with the Headshot +50% upgrade.



And the only weapon better at stripping armor than the Viper is the Revenant. That's saying quite a bit!

[Cypher0020]

The Viper strips armor? Combined with better with cryo or inferno ammo? I ususally get sqaud cryo and inferno to 3....



and despite being a vanguard...is it worth it to pick up that head gear on Omega?

[Omega-202]

Cypher0020 wrote...

The Viper strips armor? Combined with better with cryo or inferno ammo? I ususally get sqaud cryo and inferno to 3....

and despite being a vanguard...is it worth it to pick up that head gear on Omega?

There's better head gear.

But, yes, the Viper is easily one of the best anit-armor weapons in the game.  It has a base x1.35 bonus to armor and an additional x1.50 bonus vs armor when upgraded.  Add that to Inferno ammo's 60% and you've got a total of x2.45 against armor without even counting the (up to 60%) bonus from the base weapon upgrades.  Not much can compete with that.  

In regards to "what ammo power", it depends what you're facing.  If you're going up against armored biological enemies, I prefer incendiary.  If I'm going up against shielded bios, I either go with Zaeed's squad disruptor or incendiary.  If I'm going up against Geth, I go with Zaeed or Cryo because they don't panic or burn.  

Some people don't like incendiary on snipers because the panicking enemies make it hard to land headshots, but I mostly just go for body shots anyway.  

And squaddies should definitely go with the Incisor if you have it.  It makes Zaeed/Garrus squads completely unstoppable for all of those long range Blue Suns side missions.  

[hong]

Only with the Viper can you make 3 headshots in a row without coming out of sniper scope. I too love the Viper.

[Cypher0020]

I don't have that incisor dlc.... sounds awesome though....anyone wanna give me a code LOL



ok can someone give me a list of the SR upgrades? I just stumble upon these during the game....



Oh... and in NG+.... do you keep or lose all the upgrades?

[mcsupersport]

Cypher0020 wrote...

I don't have that incisor dlc.... sounds awesome though....anyone wanna give me a code LOL

ok can someone give me a list of the SR upgrades? I just stumble upon these during the game....

Oh... and in NG+.... do you keep or lose all the upgrades?

Sadly upgrades start over every game even in NG+.

http://masseffect.wi...i/Upgrade_guide

That is a list of all upgrades and locations, which seems to be pretty accurate.

[Cypher0020]

They do? Awwww crap. So I'm back to planet scanning...-sobs-



but HW's stay... like I researched Cain and the Avalanche....



thnx for the guide!

[Omega-202]

Cypher0020 wrote...

I don't have that incisor dlc.... sounds awesome though....anyone wanna give me a code LOL

ok can someone give me a list of the SR upgrades? I just stumble upon these during the game....

Oh... and in NG+.... do you keep or lose all the upgrades?

Reference the guide before playing a mission so you know where to look out for the unique upgrades.  

Missing a few thousand credits here or there is no big deal, but missing an upgrade can be pretty devastating to your effectiveness.  The difference between 5/6 or 6/6 upgrades to a weapon don't seem like a lot, but when taken into account with other variables you may have missed, it adds up.  Especially since if you have the 5 DLC mission packs, you'll never be short on cash for purchasable upgrades or to buy extra probes for mining.  

[JaegerBane]

I think the reason I use the Viper is that it's just so damn flexible. It's second only to the Widow as traditional Sniper Rifle and thanks to the flexibility, it's easy to use it in many situations where it'd be unthinkable to use a sniper rifle - it seems to function like a battle rifle as well. I remember being pretty impressed after using it during the second Praetorian encounter on the Collector Ship, as I could not only hammer the Praetorian with it, but I could easily intercept the husks as well as quickly wipe out the Collector minions with it too.

The Viper and the Locust are my fave bits of kit - it's probably why I can't remember the last time I picked the Claymore for my Vanguard or a Mattock for my Adept

[Bozorgmehr]

Omega-202 wrote...

The Viper is easily one of the best anit-armor weapons in the game.  It has a base x1.35 bonus to armor and an additional x1.50 bonus vs armor when upgraded.  Add that to Inferno ammo's 60% and you've got a total of x2.45 against armor without even counting the (up to 60%) bonus from the base weapon upgrades.  Not much can compete with that.

The ammo bonus is applied to base weapon damage only, it doesn't benefit from other multipliers. Early on without upgrades ammo powers will boost damage considerably, but fully upgraded they're not that good anymore though the side effects are great (burn, freeze and overheat).

@OP; the only worthwhile upgrades are the two bonus ones; goes for all upgrades not just weapons (unlocked after 2 and 3 upgrades respectively). You can buy two SR upgrades right from the start, and get the 3rd one on Grunt's RM - that's all you really need, put Cryo Ammo on Viper and you'll freeze every unprotected enemy with a single shot. Equip Inferno rounds on your shotty

[Sailears]

Viper looks nice, is versatile, and extremely effective. Apart from that I find it to be a messy thing to use. Same applies to the scimitar.
I have used both occasionally, but not for long because its just not my style. (Scimitar on adept though I like, for the staggers).

I like my gameplay to be clean (widow/phalanx/evi/gps), or all out rambo (avenger/rev/tempest). Perhaps mattock on the odd occasion, as both apply to it.

Modifié par Curunen, 11 décembre 2010 - 04:50 .

[Omega-202]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

The Viper is easily one of the best anit-armor weapons in the game.  It has a base x1.35 bonus to armor and an additional x1.50 bonus vs armor when upgraded.  Add that to Inferno ammo's 60% and you've got a total of x2.45 against armor without even counting the (up to 60%) bonus from the base weapon upgrades.  Not much can compete with that.

The ammo bonus is applied to base weapon damage only, it doesn't benefit from other multipliers. Early on without upgrades ammo powers will boost damage considerably, but fully upgraded they're not that good anymore though the side effects are great (burn, freeze and overheat).

Did I say otherwise?  Having a x3.05 bonus against armor (with Inferno and all upgrades) is still appreciable versus a x2.45 bonus against armor.  With "Inferno vs without Inferno" is approximately still a 25% bonus on damage to armor.  Its not the 60% it was before, but its still more of a damage increase than what you're going to get from anything else.  

[Bozorgmehr]

Omega-202 wrote...

Did I say otherwise?  Having a x3.05 bonus against armor (with Inferno and all upgrades) is still appreciable versus a x2.45 bonus against armor.  With "Inferno vs without Inferno" is approximately still a 25% bonus on damage to armor.  Its not the 60% it was before, but its still more of a damage increase than what you're going to get from anything else.

I think it's far less. Here's an example:

Kronner wrote...

All passive bonuses are added together first (class passive, armor parts, upgrades, Miranda), then you take this number and multiply the base damage.Once you get that, you must add a multiplier (against defenses) and a distance multiplier too. Ammo is another call (though I am not sure if ammo works the way I think it does).

Example:
Claymore (best damage per shot in the game) point blank anti-armor shot:
+15% class passive
+15% armor
+15% Miranda
+60% shotgun damage upgrades

(1+0.15+0.15+0.15+0.6)(passive bonuses)*400(base damage)*1.25(vs. armor modifier)*2(melee distance)

so you get 2.05*400*1.25*2 = 2050 damage

if you remove miranda you get:
1.9*400*1.25*2 = 1900

not much difference, and this is with the highest base damage in the game

-against shields and barriers you'd have to add extra 50% (0.5 to passive bonuses) (research upgrade)

Ammo call is separate, and it should be (for Inferno, for example)
0.6*Base damage ==> 0.6*400=240
you then add this extra damage to your total damage

so in my first Claymore example:
2050 + 240 = 2290 damage per shot (+inferno ammo) against Armor

Fully upgraded the Claymore with Inferno Ammo does ~10% extra damage. The extra damage isn't great, but Inferno Ammo's other effects are. And that's my point here; ammo powers' usefulness declines (fast) when upgrading when it comes to damage, but the CC effects remain and are the most effective component in the ammo department.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 12 décembre 2010 - 09:53 .

[ryoldschool]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Did I say otherwise?  Having a x3.05 bonus against armor (with Inferno and all upgrades) is still appreciable versus a x2.45 bonus against armor.  With "Inferno vs without Inferno" is approximately still a 25% bonus on damage to armor.  Its not the 60% it was before, but its still more of a damage increase than what you're going to get from anything else.

I think it's far less. Here's an example:

Kronner wrote...

All passive bonuses are added together first (class passive, armor parts, upgrades, Miranda), then you take this number and multiply the base damage.Once you get that, you must add a multiplier (against defenses) and a distance multiplier too. Ammo is another call (though I am not sure if ammo works the way I think it does).

Example:
Claymore (best damage per shot in the game) point blank anti-armor shot:
+15% class passive
+15% armor
+15% Miranda
+60% shotgun damage upgrades

(1+0.15+0.15+0.15+0.6)(passive bonuses)*400(base damage)*1.25(vs. armor modifier)*2(melee distance)

so you get 2.05*400*1.25*2 = 2050 damage

if you remove miranda you get:
1.9*400*1.25*2 = 1900

not much difference, and this is with the highest base damage in the game

-against shields and barriers you'd have to add extra 50% (0.5 to passive bonuses) (research upgrade)

Ammo call is separate, and it should be (for Inferno, for example)
0.6*Base damage ==> 0.6*400=240
you then add this extra damage to your total damage

so in my first Claymore example:
2050 + 240 = 2290 damage per shot (+inferno ammo) against Armor

Fully upgraded the Claymore with Inferno Ammo does ~10% extra damage. The extra damage isn't great, but Inferno Ammo's other effects are. And that's my point here; ammo powers' usefulness declines (fast) when upgrading when it comes to damage, but the CC effects remain and are the most effective component in the ammo department.

I wonder about the range calculation in Kronner's example.  I posted a PM to Eric ****nan ( have not heard back yet ).  If the 2x multiplier also applies to the ammo damage then it would make about a 20% effect in the calc example.  Its not clear in the gameplay thread exactly how the range multiplier works ( also how the Soldier AR works - it might multiply the entire damage by the 140% ).  There is no doubt that the ammo effect ( and Miranda passive and armor bonuses ) is greatest at the beginning of the game before the weapon upgrades dwarf their effect.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

The Viper is pure sex. 'Nuff said.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Overall, I actually like the Viper most out of all the SRs, since it's incredibly powerful regardless of what class or build uses it.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Overall, I actually like the Viper most out of all the SRs, since it's incredibly powerful regardless of what class or build uses it.

I'm torn.  The Viper is awesome, but what I REALLY want is to be able to take the Viper AND the Widow on the same character.

[Omega-202]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Fully upgraded the Claymore with Inferno Ammo does ~10% extra damage. The extra damage isn't great, but Inferno Ammo's other effects are. And that's my point here; ammo powers' usefulness declines (fast) when upgrading when it comes to damage, but the CC effects remain and are the most effective component in the ammo department.

As stated above, I think that Kronner fudged up with the range modifier.  I'm pretty sure that Christina Norman said that it was actually the only multiplicative bonus, so therefore he only half counted for the ammo bonus (or double counted the rest, depending on whether you want to use the range mod in your calc).  

My example only left out armor, class and Miranda bonuses which add up to an extra ~45%?  Not a huge difference.  

[Kronner]

Omega-202 wrote...

As
stated above, I think that Kronner fudged up with the range modifier.
 I'm pretty sure that Christina Norman said that it was actually the
only multiplicative bonus, so therefore he only half counted for the
ammo bonus (or double counted the rest, depending on whether you want to
use the range mod in your calc).  

My example only left out armor, class and Miranda bonuses which add up to an extra ~45%?  Not a huge difference.  

I'd say the ammo bonus is always calculated from base weapon damage, regardless of distance modifier. I do not know this for sure (no dev confirmed it), but just by experience, the ammo bonus damage counts for very little.

But in any case, your example is wrong. The 1.35 modifier against armor, that Viper has by default multiplies the overall damage, not just base damage. The +50% upgrade research bonus is not as important and you can't just add them together to get 1.85 modifier.
The Ammo call is separate as well and it is based on base weapon damage. SR get no distance bonus.

It is: (without counting headshots or weak spots bonuses, I am not sure how they work)
(passive bonuses such as class passive, armor and ALL upgrades)*Viper base damage*Viper Defense Modifier + Ammo call

So, adding Inferno Ammo (60%), anti armor modifier (1.35) and upgrade research bonus (1.5) to get 2.45 modifier is simply incorrect.

Modifié par Kronner, 12 décembre 2010 - 06:32 .

[darknoon5]

I only ever really use viper on my soldier...with a damaging ammo power and adrenaline rush, it does crazy headshot damage. But widow will always be the best sniper.

[bdm13]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Overall, I actually like the Viper most out of all the SRs, since it's incredibly powerful regardless of what class or build uses it.

I'm torn.  The Viper is awesome, but what I REALLY want is to be able to take the Viper AND the Widow on the same character.

Has anyone figured out a way to carry two weapons of the same class on one character?
I would love to carry both the viper and widow.