96 réponses à ce sujet

[Ship.wreck_]

Googlesaurus wrote...

aeetos21 wrote...

maybe because he's a special forces marine and the weapons are collapsable and easier to carry on his back? soldiers of today carry hundreds of pounds of equipment with them - add in alliance soldier genetic modification and all the skin weaves for enhance strength and you have a shepard not only toting around heavy weapons but also easily lifting i-beams at the end of me2 to recover his two squadmates that accompanied him on the final boss.

...no. Soldiers don't carry nearly that much weight ever. 

Shepard had additional modifications when he was brought back by Cerberus. 

I'm with aeetos on this one. Arent standard loadouts often in excess of 60lbs, plus supplies. If you're a machine gunner it'll be that PLUS a thirty + pound weapon PLUS thousands of rounds of ammunition. Ever see restrepo, those guys are carying packs the size of themselves ontop of all that!

Plus it stands to reason that this being the future the weapons will be made of super light weight composits alloys and ceramics, meaning that one could carry all those guns and still be carrying LESS weight than a contemporary soldier with a traditional loadout involving one weapon. That is the whole point of future weapons wouldn't you say? that they are more high tech and therefore solve the problems of today in their own tommorow.

[Ship.wreck_]

AntiChri5 wrote...
But that does not mean you are equal in all fields. You want ro be the a sniping specialist........and a rifle specialist........and a close quarters specialist...... This runs counter to the concept of specialisation. You pick one to develop further then the rest.

Exactly not equal in all fields like tech and biotics and weapons. Just a specialist in weapons. You're nukin' it man, way over-complicating the concept, if a soldeir can only specialize in one or two guns and there's a different soldier specialty for each pair and the same for every other class in terms of that classes specialty, YOUR GONNA WIND UP WITH EIGHT DIFFERENT SPECIALTIES WITHIN EACH SPECIALTY. It's too damn much specialties man!

No, i didn't.

Did too.

And Soldier Shepard who specialises in Sniper Rifles is still far better with a Shotgun then the average marine.

Yeah but appearently he can't use an smg to save his life.

Which is why Barak Obama is the ultimate soldier?
I didn't say captains are good at it, I said they can, because they can. Besides Commander in Cheif notwithstanding Obama is still a civilian. Captain is the master of all on his ship including weapons, even a fleet commander couldn't tell a captain how to run his boat or that he can't shoot certain guns on it. Captains can period. Thats how it works, if bioware don't like it their character shoudln't be a captain.

[Dean_the_Young]

In Mass Effect 1, we were a Human special-interest project who operated around human colonies who was responding to an invasion of Human space by a anti-human alien on the basis that we were pretty sure he was incredibly anti-human, learning only later that the threat was far bigger than just humanity, while the Human fleet was decisive in saving the day.





Yeah, Mass Effect 1 was never about the aliens more than the humans. At least in ME2 you could actually go to an alien colony.

[Googlesaurus]

Ship.wreck wrote...

I'm with aeetos on this one. Arent standard loadouts often in excess of 60lbs, plus supplies. If you're a machine gunner it'll be that PLUS a thirty + pound weapon PLUS thousands of rounds of ammunition. Ever see restrepo, those guys are carying packs the size of themselves ontop of all that!

60lbs < hundreds of pounds 

Not to mention your loadouts will vary heavily depending on location, estimated time in the field, estimated time between resupply, expectations regarding combat, specialization, etc. Is it possible that you will be carrying hundreds of pounds of equipment? Yes, but you won't be able to fight with that much weight on your back. You need it because you're in enemy territory for an extended period of time. Trust me, if you're special ops and you need to do a job quick you'll be packing light. 

Ship.wreck wrote...

Plus it stands to reason that this being the future the weapons will be made of super light weight composits alloys and ceramics, meaning that one could carry all those guns and still be carrying LESS weight than a contemporary soldier with a traditional loadout involving one weapon. That is the whole point of future weapons wouldn't you say? that they are more high tech and therefore solve the problems of today in their own tommorow.

I was referring to the I-beams description. 

Why are you against Soldier Shepard gaining combat powers in the form of variable equipment (Concussive Shot, Flashbang Grenade) or gene mods? Those are things that any soldier should know how to use/have. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 11 décembre 2010 - 06:37 .

[AntiChri5]

Exactly not equal in all fields like tech and biotics and weapons. Just a specialist in weapons. You're nukin' it man, way over-complicating the concept, if a soldeir can only specialize in one or two guns and there's a different soldier specialty for each pair and the same for every other class in terms of that classes specialty, YOUR GONNA WIND UP WITH EIGHT DIFFERENT SPECIALTIES WITHIN EACH SPECIALTY. It's too damn much specialties man!

Being a biotic or a tech or a weapons master is not specialising. Those are different classes entirely. A Soldier has no biotics and no tech skills. Specialising is taking further steps within one specific field of your general outline. "Weapons" aren't a specialisation. "Ranged Weapons" or "Close quarters Weapons" is specialising.

Did too.

This is an argument five year olds use. Point out where i said Soldiers should have powers.

Yeah but appearently he can't use an smg to save his life.

No, he simply does not take one with him when he has access to a bigger, better version.

I didn't say captains are good at it, I said they can, because they can. Besides Commander in Cheif notwithstanding Obama is still a civilian. Captain is the master of all on his ship including weapons, even a fleet commander couldn't tell a captain how to run his boat or that he can't shoot certain guns on it. Captains can period. Thats how it works, if bioware don't like it their character shoudln't be a captain.

Have you really never heard of military discipline? A naval officer who refused to follow orders would be court martialed.

Shepard never reached the rank of captain.

[Ship.wreck_]

AntiChri5 wrote...
Being a biotic or a tech or a weapons master is not specialising. Those are different classes entirely. A Soldier has no biotics and no tech skills. Specialising is taking further steps within one specific field of your general outline. "Weapons" aren't a specialisation. "Ranged Weapons" or "Close quarters Weapons" is specialising.

First class is just a different word for specialty, stop arguing semanitcs. Second maybe in todays world where all we have to physically damage enemies is weapons, but in a future world where there's all kinds of waky powers then weapons in generall would be a specialty as compared to powers / tech damage. booya.

This is an argument five year olds use. Point out where i said Soldiers should have powers.

I'm not wading through all this stupid (from all) to find what you said eight pages ago. You tell me what you said, and I'll re assess wether I disagree. Which I'm pretty sure I do. And by the way, until you specify otherwise: Did too.

No, he simply does not take one with him when he has access to a bigger, better version.

Really, is the SMG a mini version of the assault riffle or is the Machine pistol a bigger version of the pistol!? Either way doesn't matter because you can't choose, and you should be able too!

Have you really never heard of military discipline? A naval officer who refused to follow orders would be court martialed.
Shepard never reached the rank of captain.

Dude I was in the Navy I know more about it than you. First off Captain is both a rank AND a postition. One can hold the rank of captain, and not actually be captain of a ship, for example be attached to or run a base command at said rank. Likewise one can be far below the rank of captain like a Commander for example (ring any bells) and still be captain of a ship... a small ship. Furthermore the position of captain of a ship is one held in such high regard that it often supercedes rank. A ranking oficer wouldn't give such orders because he knows his subordinate given his position is under no obligation to follow them, that's why if you outrank a guy, you don't be on is ship except for a quick inspection and leave. So you don't have to deal with that. You can tell him where his ship needs to go, but not how he should run his boat or what he can do on it.

Uber booya.

[Ship.wreck_]

Googlesaurus wrote...
60lbs < hundreds of pounds 

Not to mention your loadouts will vary heavily depending on location, estimated time in the field, estimated time between resupply, expectations regarding combat, specialization, etc. Is it possible that you will be carrying hundreds of pounds of equipment? Yes, but you won't be able to fight with that much weight on your back. You need it because you're in enemy territory for an extended period of time. Trust me, if you're special ops and you need to do a job quick you'll be packing light. 

All in all a soldier could be expected to carry a crapload of weight, and that was what what's her name said that I agreed with.

I was referring to the I-beams description. 

Why are you against Soldier Shepard gaining combat powers in the form of variable equipment (Concussive Shot, Flashbang Grenade) or gene mods? Those are things that any soldier should know how to use/have. 

What are you talking about? I want more guns! I'm a soldier and I don't get all the guns! WTF? As for powers I don't freakin' care, I say the more stuff the better. In the first game when you got weapons specialist achievements you unlocked advanced training for that weapon for all different classes, which was dope! I got all achievements but never played a second time. Theoretically speaking if they work like they say the do, you could be any class and still max out all weapon skills! SHould have been same for ME2 I get distinct impression it's not since even a soldier can't get all the weapons... WTF???

[AntiChri5]

First class is just a different word for specialty, stop arguing semanitcs. Second maybe in todays world where all we have to physically damage enemies is weapons, but in a future world where there's all kinds of waky powers then weapons in generall would be a specialty as compared to powers / tech damage. booya.

It is not semantics, it is the definition of the word. Specialising is not broad proficiency in a field, it is when you focus further on a particular aspect of that field.

I'm not wading through all this stupid (from all) to find what you said eight pages ago. You tell me what you said, and I'll re assess wether I disagree. Which I'm pretty sure I do. And by the way, until you specify otherwise: Did too.

Oh this is ritch. You start off by dismissing everybody elses opinion as stupid, then mistake the number three for eight, then refuse to substantiate a claim YOU made and insist i prove my rejection of that claim. That isn't how debate works. If you can't be bothered reading someone elses arguments then don't bloody bother posting, and if you can't back up what you say don't bloody say it or you look like a five year old. Why not just shout "NO U!"?

Really, is the SMG a mini version of the assault riffle or is the Machine pistol a bigger version of the pistol!? Either way doesn't matter because you can't choose, and you should be able too!

The smg is completely different from the heavy pistol. They serve different purposes and fill different roles. Smgs are very similar to the assault rifles, for more similar then either is to the pistol.

Dude I was in the Navy I know more about it than you. First off Captain is both a rank AND a postition. One can hold the rank of captain, and not actually be captain of a ship, for example be attached to or run a base command at said rank. Likewise one can be far below the rank of captain like a Commander for example (ring any bells) and still be captain of a ship... a small ship. Furthermore the position of captain of a ship is one held in such high regard that it often supercedes rank. A ranking oficer wouldn't give such orders because he knows his subordinate given his position is under no obligation to follow them, that's why if you outrank a guy, you don't be on is ship except for a quick inspection and leave. So you don't have to deal with that. You can tell him where his ship needs to go, but not how he should run his boat or what he can do on it.

None of this is a counterpoint (or in any way relevant) to what i have said.

[SmokePants]

If Sheperd can't pick dropped enemy weapons off the ground to adapt to the situation, it would be a terrible idea to limit the Soldier's available arsenal.

[Googlesaurus]

Ship.wreck wrote...

What are you talking about? I want more guns! I'm a soldier and I don't get all the guns! WTF? As for powers I don't freakin' care, I say the more stuff the better. In the first game when you got weapons specialist achievements you unlocked advanced training for that weapon for all different classes, which was dope! I got all achievements but never played a second time. Theoretically speaking if they work like they say the do, you could be any class and still max out all weapon skills! SHould have been same for ME2 I get distinct impression it's not since even a soldier can't get all the weapons... WTF???

Calm down. This isn't that big of a deal. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 11 décembre 2010 - 07:06 .

[Ship.wreck_]

AntiChri5 wrote...
It is not semantics, it is the definition of the word. Specialising is not broad proficiency in a field, it is when you focus further on a particular aspect of that field.

Again in todays world where the only way to attack your enemies is with some type of fire arm one would have to choose a specific type to specialize. But in the ME universe where there a variety of offensive weapons deployable on a personell level besides firearms, the use of firearms specifically could be a specialization. As the scope of combat broadens so does the scope of specialties within it.

Oh this is ritch. You start off by dismissing everybody elses opinion as stupid, then mistake the number three for eight, then refuse to substantiate a claim YOU made and insist i prove my rejection of that claim. That isn't how debate works. If you can't be bothered reading someone elses arguments then don't bloody bother posting, and if you can't back up what you say don't bloody say it or you look like a five year old. Why not just shout "NO U!"?

I say what I want, and I already said "Did too." TWICE. Secondly I didn't say my opinion was any less stupid than anyone elses... just less stupid than yours. And I'm even kidding about that part. But I'm not kidding about my refusal to look up what you said!

The smg is completely different from the heavy pistol. They serve different purposes and fill different roles. Smgs are very similar to the assault rifles, for more similar then either is to the pistol.

They both fit the same weapons slot and replace each other (SMG/Machine pistol) and for the record a machine pistol is identicle to a pistol with the sole exception of an autmatic fire mode. Just one more position on the saftey switch.

Dude I was in the Navy I know more about it than you. First off Captain is both a rank AND a postition. One can hold the rank of captain, and not actually be captain of a ship, for example be attached to or run a base command at said rank. Likewise one can be far below the rank of captain like a Commander for example (ring any bells) and still be captain of a ship... a small ship. Furthermore the position of captain of a ship is one held in such high regard that it often supercedes rank. A ranking oficer wouldn't give such orders because he knows his subordinate given his position is under no obligation to follow them, that's why if you outrank a guy, you don't be on is ship except for a quick inspection and leave. So you don't have to deal with that. You can tell him where his ship needs to go, but not how he should run his boat or what he can do on it.

None of this is a counterpoint (or in any way relevant) to what i have said.

Have you really never heard of military discipline? A naval officer who refused to follow orders would be court martialed.
Shepard never reached the rank of captain.

^IT IS BOTH COUNTERPOINT AND RELEVENT TO THAT WHICH YOU SAID. Or... did you not say that? NOPE YOU DID.

[Ship.wreck_]

SmokePants wrote...

If Sheperd can't pick dropped enemy weapons off the ground to adapt to the situation, it would be a terrible idea to limit the Soldier's available arsenal.

Exactly THANKYOU!

Whats up with that by the way? Shepard has to go to special place in a special map to pick up a certain gun while walking past literally PILES of the exact same gun on the way, but for some inexplicable reason he can't bend down and pick one up now???

If that's the case he DAMN well better get every gun in the game, if nothing else then eventually!

[Vaenier]

Shepard reached the rank of Specter, which is equivalent to the rank of CIA/NSA operative. They exist above the military, and can use it for whatever they want.

[Ship.wreck_]

Googlesaurus wrote...
Calm down. This isn't that big of a deal. 

NOOOOO I WANT MORE GUNNNNNNNSSSSSS!!!!

Seriously though, I was asking what you were talking about. I have no idea what you were saying I was saying before.

[AntiChri5]

We can continue the debate when you calm down, stop calling people stupid and actually bother to read the arguments i made rather then making assumptions and then bullheadedly sticking to them with constant "Did too!" when you admit to being unwilling to bother even reading what i have written.



I refuse to debate with someone incapable of telling the difference between 8 and 3.

[Ship.wreck_]

Vaenier wrote...

Shepard reached the rank of Specter, which is equivalent to the rank of CIA/NSA operative. They exist above the military, and can use it for whatever they want.

I don't know that we have any direct analogue to specters but yeah I would say CIA's the closest thing we've got.

None the less once he became a specter he still held the rank of Commander in the Alliance Navy, even though he's a Marine somehow???

And also seperately held the position of Captain of his ship.

[Vaenier]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Shepard reached the rank of Specter, which is equivalent to the rank of CIA/NSA operative. They exist above the military, and can use it for whatever they want.

I don't know that we have any direct analogue to specters but yeah I would say CIA's the closest thing we've got.

None the less once he became a specter he still held the rank of Commander in the Alliance Navy, even though he's a Marine somehow???

And also seperately held the position of Captain of his ship.

Captian is a direct result of being a specter.

Commander is just his alliance specific rank. And he would probably go back to it if he gave up Specter status. [maybe a few promotions thrown in]

Alliance Navy evolved to meet the times, its not just "the navy" anymore.

[Ship.wreck_]

AntiChri5 wrote...

We can continue the debate when you calm down, stop calling people stupid and actually bother to read the arguments i made rather then making assumptions and then bullheadedly sticking to them with constant "Did too!" when you admit to being unwilling to bother even reading what i have written.

I refuse to debate with someone incapable of telling the difference between 8 and 3.

Oh I'm super calm. Who did I call stupid, Mister "tell me what I said"? I refuse to read what you wrote before you started addressing me. I more or less recall the jist of what' you've been saying since. AND I DISSAGREE. And until you specify otherwise, as far as I'm concerned: You did, in fact, too!

Now you're just making up excuses to withdraw. But hey, if that's how you roll it's fine with me.

[Ship.wreck_]

Vaenier wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Shepard reached the rank of Specter, which is equivalent to the rank of CIA/NSA operative. They exist above the military, and can use it for whatever they want.

I don't know that we have any direct analogue to specters but yeah I would say CIA's the closest thing we've got.

None the less once he became a specter he still held the rank of Commander in the Alliance Navy, even though he's a Marine somehow???

And also seperately held the position of Captain of his ship.

Captian is a direct result of being a specter.

Commander is just his alliance specific rank. And he would probably go back to it if he gave up Specter status. [maybe a few promotions thrown in]

Alliance Navy evolved to meet the times, its not just "the navy" anymore.

You're correct, he did get appointed captain as a result of being a Specter, but none the less he holds the position of captain.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Specter isn't exactly part of any rank heirarchy, one isn't promoted to specter from some sub specter rank that's part of the same organization. It's a special group to which one is appointed from any possition anywhere in the galaxy, independent of that previous position, which holds no ranks within it's group and which reports exclusively to the council.

So strictly speaking if that's correct Specter isn't a rank at all, and Shepard would retain his rank as Commander in the Navy.

[Googlesaurus]

Vaenier wrote...

Shepard reached the rank of Specter, which is equivalent to the rank of CIA/NSA operative. They exist above the military, and can use it for whatever they want.

Their authority comes from the Council, but they can't do whatever they want within the Alliance military (a place where the Council has no official authority). If they did, the Alliance military could easily kill or imprison them with sufficient reason. 

Ship.wreck
wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Calm down. This isn't that big of a deal. 

NOOOOO I WANT MORE GUNNNNNNNSSSSSS!!!!

Seriously though, I was asking what you were talking about. I have no idea what you were saying I was saying before.

I disagreed on whether soldiers are pure gunslingers. While they may be trained with many different guns, they ought to be trained in other weapons as well. Also certain classes should be more proficient with certain weapons than the Soldier due to specialization (Vanguards--->Shotguns, Infiltrators--->Sniper Rifles). I suggest the additional of more combat powers/equipment so that Soldiers can have more versatility in battle and compensate for the lack of biotic/tech powers. 

I would rather have the Soldier possess less guns and have access to more abilities and weapons overall. 

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 11 décembre 2010 - 07:32 .

[AntiChri5]

No, you stated i made an argument i never even implied.

When i point out i didn't and ask you to point out where i did you refuse to, simply stating "Did too!" like a five year old.

I have been drawn into countless arguments with an obsession with "winning" on both sides and am sick of them. If this is just another one then i am not going to bother.



If you refuse to let this be a productive conversation there isn't a damned thing i can do about it, and i am sure as hell not getting temp banned for being drawn into a pointless and immature pissing contest.



If you want this to be a productive discussion it can be. If not, then this exchange is over.

[Ship.wreck_]

AntiChri5 wrote...

No, you stated i made an argument i never even implied.
When i point out i didn't and ask you to point out where i did you refuse to, simply stating "Did too!" like a five year old.
I have been drawn into countless arguments with an obsession with "winning" on both sides and am sick of them. If this is just another one then i am not going to bother.

If you refuse to let this be a productive conversation there isn't a damned thing i can do about it, and i am sure as hell not getting temp banned for being drawn into a pointless and immature pissing contest.

If you want this to be a productive discussion it can be. If not, then this exchange is over.

Dude these conversations are NOT productive. And can't be. Even if Bioware is listening, they're about to anounce the game at 5pm today, wich means probably way to late to make any major changes based on our pissing my way or yours.

And all that being said if this were a pissing contest I would've won! I'm a long range urine CALIGRAPHER!

And that being said... dude... chill.

[Ship.wreck_]

Googlesaurus wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Shepard reached the rank of Specter, which is equivalent to the rank of CIA/NSA operative. They exist above the military, and can use it for whatever they want.

Their authority comes from the Council, but they can't do whatever they want within the Alliance military (a place where the Council has no official authority). If they did, the Alliance military could easily kill or imprison them with sufficient reason. 

Ship.wreck
wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Calm down. This isn't that big of a deal. 

NOOOOO I WANT MORE GUNNNNNNNSSSSSS!!!!

Seriously though, I was asking what you were talking about. I have no idea what you were saying I was saying before.

I disagreed on whether soldiers are pure gunslingers. While they may be trained with many different guns, they ought to be trained in other weapons as well. Also certain classes should be more proficient with certain weapons than the Soldier due to specialization (Vanguards--->Shotguns, Infiltrators--->Sniper Rifles). I suggest the additional of more combat powers/equipment so that Soldiers can have more versatility in battle and compensate for the lack of biotic/tech powers. 

I would rather have the Soldier possess less guns and have access to more abilities and weapons overall. 

Oh, that's what you were talking about! Well if that's the case...

NOOOOO I WANT MORE GUNNNNNNSSSSSS!!!!

I'm a gun person! Soldiers are for gun people! I think there's alot of gun people in gaming and we need a gun people class that should be the ultimate in gunnery of all types to satisfy our gun needs! If you want less guns and that other stuff invent a new class

[AntiChri5]

I will chill when you do not make wild assumptions about the points i am making and then stick to them adamantly no matter how wrong you are.

Anyone doing that isn't worth talking to since you can never talk to them, only at them.

[Googlesaurus]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Oh, that's what you were talking about! Well if that's the case...

NOOOOO I WANT MORE GUNNNNNNSSSSSS!!!!

I'm a gun person! Soldiers are for gun people! I think there's alot of gun people in gaming and we need a gun people class that should be the ultimate in gunnery of all types to satisfy our gun needs! If you want less guns and that other stuff invent a new class

If only I knew how to post a silly meme!