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[Brockololly]

Don't think this was posted anywhere but its another preview on the DA2 rogue action that most sites have had a preview about. This time from Play.tm- now with plenty of button pressing awesomeness.

Some quotes:

Hardened Dragon Age: Origins fans might baulk at BioWare's decision to take Dragon Age II in a more action-oriented direction, removing the focus from the  more considered tactical pace of the first game. However, the truth is  that you can still pause the game, think out your strategy and then resume the action to see your decisions executed.


For gamers with shorter attention spans meanwhile, Dragon Age II appears to strike the perfect balance between cerebral tactics and all-out hack and slash action, presenting players with the opportunity to plan  carefully or wade in brandishing a sword and get slicing in what  BioWare's Dr. Ray Muzyka has dubbed as "a shot of adrenaline" for the RPG franchise.

While we're not entirely sure what the motivation is for dismembering a  few feeble enemies, the ensuing massacre is suitably gory and the  control system proves to be massively intuitive, even for a  button-mashing action player more accustomed to less tactical fare.

Targeting Hayder himself, we put BioWare's "press a button and  something awesome happens" mantra to the test, pressing X, Y or B to mix up the special attacks. These abilities gradually recharge over time,  so unleashing them at the right moment is key to a good strategy. While  you're waiting for these moves to recharge, you're able to hammer the A  button for a volley of sword swipes, which you can intersperse with a  lethal special.

You can also tap A with a direction for an evasive roll, which is handy when you're surrounded by enemies. And with  Hayder's obedient minions quickly surrounding our party, managing  Hawke's attacks while your AI buddies pitch in is integral in finishing  off the battle with aplomb. Isabela and Varric deal with the lackeys and
start chaining together attacks upon the ringleader, as we dig in with  as many special moves as possible.

Pressing X executes an  explosive roundhouse kick and sword slash, B is a devious backstab move, which is devastating at close-quarters and finally, Y gives Hawke some  extra breathing room as he performs an evasive backflip that's perfect  for when the action is getting too intense. Combining these actions is a key aspect in Dragon Age II's combat and tactics.

With an increased emphasis on action, Dragon Age II still has plenty of  room for the tactics and expert storytelling that BioWare has made its  signature. It's this balance of the action and RPG elements that'll be a challenge to get right, but if the Canadian developer pulls it off,  DAII could potentially satisfy the appetites of both the discerning RPG  aficionado and hardcore action fan. In its current state, we can see  that there's a way to go before its finished, but Dragon Age II is still looking good, building upon the sturdy RPG foundations laid by its  forebear.

Its funny- all these previews say how its still tactical yet don't expound on playing tactical at all beyond saying that the AI tactics are still there. Beyond that, it sounds awfully like a button masher-on the consoles at least- but hey, if its press a button and something awesome happens, thats good then, right?

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 décembre 2010 - 05:48 .

[DarthCaine]

Mike Ladlaw said there's no dodge rolls. Almost every preview is misinformed

[Pzykozis]

Brockololly wrote...

Its funny- all these previews say how its still tactical yet don't expound on playing tactical at all beyond saying that the AI tactics are still there. Beyond that, it sounds awfully like a button masher-on the consoles at least- but hey, if its press a button and something awesome happens, thats good then, right?

So, when you're playing DA:O on easy near the beginning of the game you're pausing regularly and taking time to plan your battles?

Heck when you're playing on easy do you pause much at all?

I wouldn't hamstring myself like that I don't know about you though. I only pause when I really need to, it's not something i'll willingly do for the sake of it. Therefore it's hard to say oh yes at this point we were overwhelmed by angry men who sounded like spiders (because they weren't it would have been on easy) and so we paused the game blah blah, plus it doesn't really make for that interesting reading.

But then I don't know why I'm even trying.

[Iberius]

Seems to me that the "chess" aspect of the game is still their but the "chess" pieces are just moving faster. DA2 retains it strategical aura but allows for the ADD type players to not have to make as much of a strategy.

Also bear in mind that most people previewing the game aren't trying to give the reader an in depth article on tactics. There job is more to "prep" the readers for what to expect in the game and make fans/readers excited for it. They tell you their impression, if it is still quality bioware, and if it has made improvements. I doubt you'll get the full depth of what you want from a source other than bioware.....imo I suppose.

Btw aren't the demos set on easy? In DA:O I hardly ever have to pause the game on the easy setting.

Modifié par Iberius, 11 décembre 2010 - 06:02 .

[slimgrin]

Have they let any of the gaming press demmo the pc version?

[Thunderfox]

Brockololly wrote...

Its funny- all these previews say how its still tactical yet don't expound on playing tactical at all beyond saying that the AI tactics are still there. Beyond that, it sounds awfully like a button masher-on the consoles at least- but hey, if its press a button and something awesome happens, thats good then, right?

Guess they're just not good at the Tactical parts.

[nightcobra]

DarthCaine wrote...

Mike Ladlaw said there's no dodge rolls. Almost every preview is misinformed

there is a dodge roll but it is a rogue only talent, with cooldowns as well. it's just a skill for the rogue to get out of troublesome situations quickly and not a "dodge" button to be spammed.

[Iberius]

slimgrin wrote...

Have they let any of the gaming press demmo the pc version?

Yes, but I believe Priestly said the reviews wouldn't be out until later this month.

[-Semper-]

Brockololly wrote...

Its funny- all these previews say how its still tactical yet don't expound on playing tactical at all

remember the suzuki escudo in a-spec? this car reduced the break button to absurdity

[Maconbar]

Why would reviewers need to expound on the tactical? We all know what tactical game play is. I certainly don't need a previewer to explain all the stuff I can do with tactics.



-Brock - Do you think that DA:2 on the PC isn't going to have a menu of tactical options for all the characters?

[Brockololly]

Iberius wrote...

Btw aren't the demos set on easy? In DA:O I hardly ever have to pause the game on the easy setting.

MOst likely- I do recall back when they had Origins at various conventions on PC that people commented on how difficult it was. So surely they don't want people to be discouraged.

slimgrin wrote...

Have they let any of the gaming press demmo the pc version?

As I recall, they did have the PC version at Gamescom and some people posted their impressions on it on the forums here. And then Games Radar did probably the most complete preview of DA2 for PC back at Gamescom- of course they talk of a free roaming Tactical Camera there so...yeah.

Maconbar wrote..
-Brock - Do you think that DA:2 on the PC isn't going to have a menu of tactical options for all the characters?

No, I know those tactics will be there. Its more or less I'm wondering how the faster, "press button something awesome happens" combat actually plays on a PC- seeing as you're not pressing buttons. Its like with Mass Effect- sure you can technically pause the game and order your squad to certain points and tell them to use abilities- but the speed of the real time combat pretty much negates trying to play that way. Its pointless and so you can easily play the game in real time.

Thats my concern with DA2- I enjoy playing Origins in the more tactical pause and play style, that yes, is probably more akin to playing chess with a friend. My concern is that the bulk of the effort in DA2 is to make the game play better in real time such that playing pause and play style while still technically possible is rendered pretty much obsolete by the speed of the "fight like a spartan" action.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 décembre 2010 - 06:31 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Positive review, good to see! Looking forward to the bigger stuff hitting soon though.

The preview repeatedly said how they feel DA2 gets the balance between action and tactics spot on, how is that a problem? Just because they don't go into details about the pause and play stuff that we already know how works doesn't mean it isn't there or something? In fact we all know that as a fact, so I guess people are just worrying that somehow it won't matter? This is taken from a demo, on easy, in the early parts of the game, of course previewers (and especially ones who claim to be more action orientated) aren't going to comment on how they spent minutes planning their every attack.

We know tactics are in. We know the pause and play style is still there. We know there is a version of the tactical camera (although it isn't one everyone was hoping for). To say DA2 won't be a tactical game is crazier than saying it's a dating sim to me.

As to whether it proves as tactical as some of Origins fights, well that we won't know for some time yet it's true.

Edit: I really think some of you are taking the 'press a button and something awesome happens' marketing line a bit too seriously. It is obviously aimed at those potential customers they felt didn't give Origins a chance, namely console players who prefer faster paced combat, and I don't think it applies half as well to the PC. Just having auto attack by default changes so much between the versions really.

Modifié par Apollo Starflare, 11 décembre 2010 - 06:40 .

[PsychoBlonde]

DarthCaine wrote...

Mike Ladlaw said there's no dodge rolls. Almost every preview is misinformed

He said there was no ACTIVE DODGING, where you'll be constantly moving your character out of the way of every arrow and sword-swipe.  The "dodge roll" they're talking about is a rogue move that's designed to let you reposition your character quickly, not avoid missiles.

[PsychoBlonde]

Brockololly wrote...

No, I know those tactics will be there. Its more or less I'm wondering how the faster, "press button something awesome happens" combat actually plays on a PC- seeing as you're not pressing buttons.

I don't know about you, but I pressed buttons an awful lot to access my quickbar abilities.  I'm hoping they'll allow you to change targets by some means other than clicking on them (as in Neverwinter Nights 2, where you could hit Backspace for next target and T for nearest target etc.)  I almost always had to pause so I could change up targets (because they'd move around at the weirdest moments), and I found this disruptive.  I like to play in real-time as much as possible and only pause when the computer is getting ahead of me, instead of every time I want to select something.

[slimgrin]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

No, I know those tactics will be there. Its more or less I'm wondering how the faster, "press button something awesome happens" combat actually plays on a PC- seeing as you're not pressing buttons.

I don't know about you, but I pressed buttons an awful lot to access my quickbar abilities.  I'm hoping they'll allow you to change targets by some means other than clicking on them (as in Neverwinter Nights 2, where you could hit Backspace for next target and T for nearest target etc.)  I almost always had to pause so I could change up targets (because they'd move around at the weirdest moments), and I found this disruptive.  I like to play in real-time as much as possible and only pause when the computer is getting ahead of me, instead of every time I want to select something.

I agree. Hitting a key to cycle through your enemies would be very handy. I'm big user a of a hotkey bar whenever a game provides one.

It's interesting the article mentions you can spam a regular attack while your abilities recharge. I wonder if that's the case on pc too.

[Malevolence65]

slimgrin wrote...
It's interesting the article mentions you can spam a regular attack while your abilities recharge. I wonder if that's the case on pc too.

They meant just the normal "auto-attack" type of attack.

[upsettingshorts]

Brock, I know you're desperate for information - especially on the PC - but reading console previews are just going to give you a headache.

[MerinTB]

Brockololly wrote...
No, I know those tactics will be there. Its more or less I'm wondering how the faster, "press button something awesome happens" combat actually plays on a PC- seeing as you're not pressing buttons. Its like with Mass Effect- sure you can technically pause the game and order your squad to certain points and tell them to use abilities- but the speed of the real time combat pretty much negates trying to play that way. Its pointless and so you can easily play the game in real time.

Thats my concern with DA2- I enjoy playing Origins in the more tactical pause and play style, that yes, is probably more akin to playing chess with a friend. My concern is that the bulk of the effort in DA2 is to make the game play better in real time such that playing pause and play style while still technically possible is rendered pretty much obsolete by the speed of the "fight like a spartan" action.

I think part of the communication problem is everyone meaning something different when they hear or say "tactics" or "tactical gameplay."

There is tactical gameplay in Marvel Ultimate Alliance, for example.  What powers you give the heroes and how you increase them, what you choose to use, the build-out of your group of heroes you play with, how you switch between them, which powers when...
but...
I wouldn't call the gamplay for MUA "tactical combat."

Being able to pause and issue one order to each party member won't, for me, make the game "tactical combat."  I think this is the disconnect between the "I don't pause and play (or barely do) but they all say it's in there so why are you worried about it being faster" crowd and the "I'm worried it'll be so fast paced and push a button quickly to win reaction time gaming" people.

Pause and play != tactical combat.  It can, often when used as a poor-man's turn-based... but a fully real time combat game can be very tactical as well (Ninja Gaiden, Street Fighter IV).... and, like the ME2 example, pausing it to give orders is so useless and unneccessary that it is tedious to actually do so.

When the "tactical combat" (here I'm just meaning pause and play for, like, DA2) is tedious because the real time combat is more effective (as well as quicker and more visceral), even people who want the "tactical combat" will end up barely using it or not using it at all.

And that, not to put words in the mouths of others, is what I don't want personally.

[AlanC9]

That's all well-said, MerinTB, but I'm not quite clear how to define tactical gameplay, without quotes.

[PsychoBlonde]

slimgrin wrote...

It's interesting the article mentions you can spam a regular attack while your abilities recharge. I wonder if that's the case on pc too.

In other threads, they mentioned that there's both a "attack when I hit the key" option and a "select the enemy and let them auto attack" option, so you don't have to hit the key every single time you want your character to attack, but you CAN if you like that better and find it more visceral.

[Atakuma]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

It's interesting the article mentions you can spam a regular attack while your abilities recharge. I wonder if that's the case on pc too.

In other threads, they mentioned that there's both a "attack when I hit the key" option and a "select the enemy and let them auto attack" option, so you don't have to hit the key every single time you want your character to attack, but you CAN if you like that better and find it more visceral.

I believe Mike laidlaw said there was only auto attack on the pc.

[andar91]

If he's hitting the A button to perform an evasive roll, I suspect what he's talking about is actually a closing attack that gets him to another enemy quickly.



I suspect they're still playing at the beginning of the game where the fights are easier, and that may be why he can easily switch between the styles. He repeatedly emphasizes that he thinks both action and tactics are available in the game so I'm not particularly worried.

[slimgrin]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

It's interesting the article mentions you can spam a regular attack while your abilities recharge. I wonder if that's the case on pc too.

In other threads, they mentioned that there's both a "attack when I hit the key" option and a "select the enemy and let them auto attack" option, so you don't have to hit the key every single time you want your character to attack, but you CAN if you like that better and find it more visceral.

For the pc? Really? Thats the best of both worlds.

[Atakuma]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

andar91 wrote...

@Maria:
I was under the impression you couldn't click-to-attack on PC. Both
are definitely available on console though.

That seems
rather silly to me. Why would they implement both systems for console
and only one for PC? It's not like click-to-attack isn't something
mouse+keyboard can't handle, or that it's something PC gamers aren't
used to.

Testing with click to attack on PC revealed a
number of issues where you could end up slipping a pixel off your target
and moving to point instead of attacking, which often exposed your back
to foes (and certainly doesn't help your relative defense score any!),
or causing mis-targets and the like. In the end, the potential downsides
of trying to button mash with your mouse overwhelmed the gain of doing
so, so we elected to be consistent with Origins, rather than including a
mode that wasn't feeling right, required an uncomfortable amount of
precision on the part of the player, and didn't offer any actual benefit
to the player on PC.

The next obvious question is "why include
it on console, then?" Targeting, mostly. The system is quite different
from how targeting works on PC, and thus the click to attack makes for a
smoother experience that also (to dip into the realm of the esoteric, a
bit) "feels" better and more natural on a console controller.

I hope that makes it seem less silly.

[PsychoBlonde]

slimgrin wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

It's interesting the article mentions you can spam a regular attack while your abilities recharge. I wonder if that's the case on pc too.

In other threads, they mentioned that there's both a "attack when I hit the key" option and a "select the enemy and let them auto attack" option, so you don't have to hit the key every single time you want your character to attack, but you CAN if you like that better and find it more visceral.

For the pc? Really? Thats the best of both worlds.

I'm not absolutely sure it's for the PC yet, there hasn't been much info on how the game functions on the PC.