216 réponses à ce sujet

[Andferne]

I agree that several companions from DA:O and Awakening can be classified as a degree of evil. Are they full out psychos? No, not really. But a lot of their choices in game and before the game definitely places them in the neighborhood.

[Chuvvy]

Evil gets thrown around too often. Evil isn't killing someone, evil is killing millions. Stalin was evil, Pol Pot was evil, Hitler was evil. People confuse evil with bad. I think to be considered evil you have to at least commit genocide. It's sort of like being called a hero but for psychopaths. Hero is also used to often, but I won't go into that.

[Maria Caliban]

Addai67 wrote...
*thumbs up*

I don't play psychopaths and don't prefer them as companions.  It's boring.

Indeed.

I'd like a NPC who struggles to do the right thing while, acknowledges that isn't always possible, and isn't delusional.

[GodWood]

Addai67 wrote...
*thumbs up*
I don't play psychopaths and don't prefer them as companions.  It's boring.

I disagree entirely.
Psychopaths make brilliant PCs, as a matter of fact my main Warden could probably be considered a psychopath.
I'm thinking you're confusing the term 'psychopath' with 'doing it for teh evulz'.

Modifié par GodWood, 12 décembre 2010 - 05:51 .

[upsettingshorts]

OT: My favorite PC was annoyed that the Blight harshed his mellow and suddenly everyone was so serious.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 décembre 2010 - 05:53 .

[Ryzaki]

crimzontearz wrote...


if that was the case then I'd be mary-suing my warden with BOTH lelliana and morrigan.......ahem......

anyways, the possibility of really softening some of the darker characters would be nice. I mean it always pissed me off that even if you do your best to try and put Jack's pieces back together she still treats you like crap in the end

Not really Mary Sues can have some restrictions.

Getting Leliana and Morrigan to sleep with each other, or the Warden at the same time just happens to be one of them.

Though really I just want a darker protagonist that isn't all "My wangsty angsty past! Or die innocent little children! Die!!!" 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 décembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[AlanC9]

Slidell505 wrote...

Evil gets thrown around too often. Evil isn't killing someone, evil is killing millions. Stalin was evil, Pol Pot was evil, Hitler was evil. People confuse evil with bad. I think to be considered evil you have to at least commit genocide. It's sort of like being called a hero but for psychopaths.

That simply isn't how anyone else uses the word.

Good thing too. As you'd like to use it, "evil" would have nothing much to do with morality, only capability.

[Liablecocksman]

GodWood wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
*thumbs up*
I don't play psychopaths and don't prefer them as companions.  It's boring.

I disagree entirely.
Psychopaths make brilliant PCs, as a matter of fact my main Warden could probably be considered a psychopath.
I'm thinking you're confusing the term 'psychopath' with 'doing it for teh evulz'.

I think you need to understand the term "psychopath" before you talk about whether or not I'm using it right.

[GodWood]

Liable****sman wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
*thumbs up*
I don't play psychopaths and don't prefer them as companions.  It's boring.

I disagree entirely.
Psychopaths make brilliant PCs, as a matter of fact my main Warden could probably be considered a psychopath.
I'm thinking you're confusing the term 'psychopath' with 'doing it for teh evulz'.

I think you need to understand the term "psychopath" before you talk about whether or not I'm using it right.

What? Is this directed at me?
I wasn't even quoting you...

[Shepard Lives]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
*thumbs up*

I don't play psychopaths and don't prefer them as companions.  It's boring.

Indeed.

I'd like a NPC who struggles to do the right thing while, acknowledges that isn't always possible, and isn't delusional.

+1

[Liablecocksman]

GodWood wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
*thumbs up*
I don't play psychopaths and don't prefer them as companions.  It's boring.

I disagree entirely.
Psychopaths make brilliant PCs, as a matter of fact my main Warden could probably be considered a psychopath.
I'm thinking you're confusing the term 'psychopath' with 'doing it for teh evulz'.

I think you need to understand the term "psychopath" before you talk about whether or not I'm using it right.

What? Is this directed at me?
I wasn't even quoting you...

I see... It appears that there have been a misunderstanding.
For some reason, I read "I agree entirely" and then went into defense mode. I offer you my sincerest apologies.

[biomag]

Perhaps the problem is that pure "evil" and "good" characters are to shallow to write and are f***ing boring? Bioware always writes deep characters and like in real life no one is just evil/good for the sake of being evil/good. There is always a reason that motivates them. Now, as Loghain appears to be a selfish, shortsighted madman that you can just hate for being a traitor, most of that charm is gone when you know his story. Same can be said about Saren, Jack, Zevran... and that's how life works.



Being evil for the sake of being evil is not to be found in sane personalities. You could make a android that way like HK-47, but except for those cases the characters will look fake and shallow.

[Liablecocksman]

biomag wrote...

Perhaps the problem is that pure "evil" and "good" characters are to shallow to write and are f***ing boring? Bioware always writes deep characters and like in real life no one is just evil/good for the sake of being evil/good. There is always a reason that motivates them. Now, as Loghain appears to be a selfish, shortsighted madman that you can just hate for being a traitor, most of that charm is gone when you know his story. Same can be said about Saren, Jack, Zevran... and that's how life works.

Being evil for the sake of being evil is not to be found in sane personalities. You could make a android that way like HK-47, but except for those cases the characters will look fake and shallow.

While he was highly amusing, I didn't find Edwin (The character I bring up in the OP) to be neither fake nor shallow.
I agree that these "purely good/evil" companion are boring, which I why I find ALMOST ALL companions of recent games to be horrendously boring, because they are simply "purely good"(Or nearly that, anyway).

[Wulfram]

I like companions to be people I could imagine my PC would work with.

Modifié par Wulfram, 12 décembre 2010 - 01:58 .

[Liablecocksman]

Wulfram wrote...

I like companions to be people I could imagine my PC would work with.

Very good. I imagine many other people feel similarly...
Now what, though, if the PC is evil?

Holy smokes, it seems your post has fallen flat.

[crimzontearz]

Ryzaki wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


if that was the case then I'd be mary-suing my warden with BOTH lelliana and morrigan.......ahem......

anyways, the possibility of really softening some of the darker characters would be nice. I mean it always pissed me off that even if you do your best to try and put Jack's pieces back together she still treats you like crap in the end

Not really Mary Sues can have some restrictions.

Getting Leliana and Morrigan to sleep with each other, or the Warden at the same time just happens to be one of them.

Though really I just want a darker protagonist that isn't all "My wangsty angsty past! Or die innocent little children! Die!!!" 

oh well

as for a "darker protagonist"...well...some of the **** you are allowed to do for the greater good are kinda dark both in ME2 and DAO so I'd say I wonder HOW dark you want it

[svenus97]

There is no evil, only point of view.

[crimzontearz]

svenus97 wrote...

There is no evil, only point of view.

not in a game that pits good vs evil and gives you some sort of pre determined definition of either

[svenus97]

crimzontearz wrote...

svenus97 wrote...

There is no evil, only point of view.

not in a game that pits good vs evil and gives you some sort of pre determined definition of either

Let's use the Architect as an example.

He compared his killing of Grey Wardens for their blood as Grey Wardens killing Darkspawn for their blood, is he incorrect ?

He is trying to liberate the Darkspawn race, they do not want to destroy, but they have to, they are addicted to the Old Gods' call. Would you execute a mentally unstable person because he commited a crime ?

There are other examples. Avernus, Loghain, Morrigan, Flemeth, Bhelen, Uldred etc...

But then there is Marjolaine, and that biotch is pure evil

[crimzontearz]

Avernus: he CAN redeem himself by the end so it is obvious you can convince him that what he was doing was evil



Loghain: Thanks to him my PC's family was murdered...he definitely is evil, closeminded and xenophobic. I do not care how patriotic he is, the road to hell is paved of good intentions.



Morrigan.....oh come on.



Flemeth: we seriously do not have enough data about her. I smell retcon.



Bhelen: Patricide.....yeah......very gray morality



Uldred: rise an armoy of abominations to conquer the world....not evil at all right?



but that's not the point really, what I said is that if a game gives you a predetermined definition of good and evil then perspective is not in the equation anymore, I did not really apply it to DAO or ME2 even tho both of them DO put you on loose moral railroads since well I may think that the smarter idea is submitting to the reapers or let an old god rule us all

[Wulfram]

Liable****sman wrote...


Very good. I imagine many other people feel similarly...
Now what, though, if the PC is evil?

Holy smokes, it seems your post has fallen flat.

Most evil PCs could work with most of the companions in DA:O.

[Liablecocksman]

Wulfram wrote...

Most evil PCs could work with most of the companions in DA:O.

Eh, no, not really.
That still isn't the point though, is it?
And doesn't your follow-up post here, that I'm replying to, completely contradict your previous post?

I like companions to be people I could imagine my PC would work with.

If evil PCs can work with good companions, surely good PCs can work with evil companions aswell, no?

[Wulfram]

Liable****sman wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Most evil PCs could work with most of the companions in DA:O.

Eh, no, not really.
That still isn't the point though, is it?
And doesn't your follow-up post here, that I'm replying to, completely contradict your previous post?

I like companions to be people I could imagine my PC would work with.

If evil PCs can work with good companions, surely good PCs can work with evil companions aswell, no?

Good and Evil characters can work with each other if they're not extreme.  You appear to be asking for an extreme evil character.

[Maria Caliban]

Liable****sman wrote...

I like companions to be people I could imagine my PC would work with.

If evil PCs can work with good companions, surely good PCs can work with evil companions aswell, no?

PCs can do so, but not all PCs will. Hers obviously don't.