216 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

crimzontearz wrote...

Loghain: Thanks to him my PC's family was murdered...he definitely is evil, closeminded and xenophobic.

You sure Loghain ordered that?

[Addai]

GodWood wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
*thumbs up*
I don't play psychopaths and don't prefer them as companions.  It's boring.

I disagree entirely.
Psychopaths make brilliant PCs, as a matter of fact my main Warden could probably be considered a psychopath.
I'm thinking you're confusing the term 'psychopath' with 'doing it for teh evulz'.

Well, it's boring to me.  And yes, I'm not using a clinical definition (let's not get into that), I mean someone who is just pointlessly and even stupidly cruel.  Just as I'd rather not play a PC who's a cub scout.  I'd like the field to be somewhere in the middle, with more complex motivations.  Also let's remember we're talking about NPCs.  I imagine you'll still be able to play a f*ckwit as PC.  I just don't care to have one as companion, since I don't play my PCs that way and don't imagine they'd ever recruit someone like that to fight at their back.

[krikkern]

Does truly evil people exist ??

I think not.

It's a matter of interests and perspectives, and ways/lengths that people go in order to achieve whatever they want. 

I think that explains why a companion who's supposed be bad turns out not being entirely bad after all as you get to know them. All is not black and white, there are shades of gray, and what many people percieves as evil is often simply selfishness, lack of sympathy, lack of empathy or maybe even desperation. It's not really evil.

A companion who's evil through and through would be stripped of personality, because he/she would be exactly black and white, with no shades of gray. Very uninteresting and totally unlikely.

[Ziggeh]

krikkern wrote...

A companion who's evil through and through would be stripped of personality, because he/she would be exactly black and white, with no shades of gray. Very uninteresting and totally unlikely.

HK-47 disagrees, meatbag.

[nightcobra]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

krikkern wrote...

A companion who's evil through and through would be stripped of personality, because he/she would be exactly black and white, with no shades of gray. Very uninteresting and totally unlikely.

HK-47 disagrees, meatbag.

HK-47's understanding of the rivalry romance

Mockery: Oh, Master, i love you but i hate all you stand for, but i think we should go and press our slimy, mucus-covered lips together in the cargo hold.

[svenus97]

crimzontearz wrote...

Avernus: he CAN redeem himself by the end so it is obvious you can convince him that what he was doing was evil - Evil from your point of view, amirite ? 

Loghain: Thanks to him my PC's family was murdered...he definitely is evil, closeminded and xenophobic. I do not care how patriotic he is, the road to hell is paved of good intentions. - Arl Howe did that. Loghain withdrew because the battle was lost. If you get him as a companion he is quite a "caring" person.

Morrigan.....oh come on. - Fair enough

Flemeth: we seriously do not have enough data about her. I smell retcon. - Ok

Bhelen: Patricide.....yeah......very gray morality - Yup

Uldred: rise an armoy of abominations to conquer the world....not evil at all right? - He wanted to fight the Chantry, which is evil from his point of view, as he said himself "the mages are but a larval form of something far greater" and he is correct.

but that's not the point really, what I said is that if a game gives you a predetermined definition of good and evil then perspective is not in the equation anymore, I did not really apply it to DAO or ME2 even tho both of them DO put you on loose moral railroads since well I may think that the smarter idea is submitting to the reapers or let an old god rule us all

[Adhin]

Loghain did not withdraw because the battle was lost, he did it specifically to get rid of the "king" and the Orlesian oriented Wardens that came to help. Calin was going to re-marry an Orlesian woman since his current wife (Loghain's daughter) wasn't producing any children and he was being pressed due to his bloodline dying with him.

As for Cousland family being murdered, that was partly due to Loghain. He needed him out of the picture for his plan to 'keep out the Orlesians' since he hates them greatly. He thinks hes doing whats 'right' but ultimately hes killing off everything he loves. Arl howle has some latent dislike of the Couslands due to there history and was the one allowed to 'deal with them'. So all Loghain needed? was the father and mother taken out as they held the most 'pull' when the whole meeting is held after the battle. He also had that other guy (name escapes me) poisoned to take him out of it.

The whole leaving because the 'battle was lost' was just his backpeddling an explantion. The fire was never gonig to be lit with his original plan and that was going to be his excuse. But since you the 'warden' ended up foiling that plan accidentally he had to come up with something else to try to explain why he ran away - killing the King and the wardens. So he basically blamed the wardens and said he was trying to save his army from death so he could keep 'defending' there country. It was all BS.



Like crimzontearz said - "..he definitely is evil, close minded and xenophobic."



Though less evil and mostly misguided in his attempts to save everything he holds dear. But he is 'very' close minded and xenophobic, but for semi-good reasons. He still instigated almost every evil thing that happened during the story that related directly in Fereldan excepte the Blight.

[Maria Caliban]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

krikkern wrote...

A companion who's evil through and through would be stripped of personality, because he/she would be exactly black and white, with no shades of gray. Very uninteresting and totally unlikely.

HK-47 disagrees, meatbag.

Yeah, a companion can have personality and still be a complete and utter cardboard cut-out. Personality and depth are two very different things.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 décembre 2010 - 12:15 .

[Rykn]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

krikkern wrote...

A companion who's evil through and through would be stripped of personality, because he/she would be exactly black and white, with no shades of gray. Very uninteresting and totally unlikely.

HK-47 disagrees, meatbag.

A lot of evil characters have no personality it's true but Bioware tends to take that stereotype and beat the crap out of it. (I'm just gonna count companions here) We got HK-47 like zig said but also Korgan, Edwin, Sarevok, and Viconia off the top of my head... Sarevok would sacrifice babies for more power and Viconia worships evil (in the form of Shar) but both of them can be turned good so maybe they shouldn't be counted. I think Morrigan probably counts also if they don't develop her character more. But really HK and Edwin(Edwina:lol:) should be all that is needed to prove you wrong.

EDIT: Forgot Xzar and Tiax. They are both insane but still deserve mention.... hmm the only great and pure evil ones seem to also be the funny ones don't they? Guy below me got Jack. I think shes bat shiz crazy (Debatable I suppose) but why not?

Modifié par Rykn, 13 décembre 2010 - 12:31 .

[Dan-mac RI]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before but have you met Jack from ME2? Seriously, if you make the right decisions she's a damn psycho. Enjoys killing, long history of killing, blows **** up just because, to be honest, I don't really understand why she continues to help you anyway. I think she is a pretty damn "evil" character.

[crimzontearz]

Evil from your point of view, amirite ?  Also HIS point of view in the end if you persuade him that his methods were extreme 

 Arl Howe did that. Loghain withdrew because the battle was lost. If you get him as a companion he is quite a "caring" person.  he is uncaring about it all all really, it's not like he condemns Howe for it at all. Also he despises Lelliana simply for having grown up in Orlais. As explained by others all hints point to the fact he was trying to kill Cailan all along regardless of the fate of the battle, indeed even Alistair comments it looked like they were winning before Loghain quit the field. Also I am not  above allowing him to redeem himself but since allowing him to live would cost me Alistair.... he MAY have the best interest of his country in mind but that does not make him "good" or even  of gray morality.

 Yup ....uh you agreeing with me or are you being sarcastic back to my sarcasm?

 - He wanted to fight the Chantry, which is evil from his point of view, as he said himself "the mages are but a larval form of something far greater" and he is correct. He may have wanted to fight the chantry and the abomination that was born from the fusion of Uldred and the Pride demon MIGHT have believed it but ultimately that was not even Uldred anymore. I'm also only judging Uldred-the-Abomination not Uldred himself since you never really meet the guy....not you know what  his original plan was

 

[Insomniak]

ErichHartmann wrote...

I prefer morally ambiguous companions that are open to interpretation by the player.

I agree! And I think that BioWare does a great job of delivering on this... Think about it: Some of you are complaining that we did not have "truly evil" companions, but neither did we have truly good companions. Each character had his or her own virtues and flaws. Their morality was often times subjective - not black and white, not good or evil as some people prefer to crassly label them.

Modifié par javajedi217, 13 décembre 2010 - 12:30 .

[JW720]

I wanna say I'm a huge fan of Dexter so I think a sociopath that enjoys killing innocents would be interesting to explore. Someone who kills not out of a hatred but out of a simple need. Who only follows because of the amount of killing he can do with the group. There could be a lot of great moments created by having a character like this.

[SafetyShattered]

I don't want a companion that's evil just for the sake of being evil. If they are evil I want to be able to have the ability to change their moral views (or at least to a certain extent).

[Rake21]

Shadowfang12 wrote...

I don't want a companion that's evil just for the sake of being evil. If they are evil I want to be able to have the ability to change their moral views (or at least to a certain extent).

Or, barring that, kill them

[DMC12]

One of the things I'm a little disappointed in DA2 is that it seems clear that you'll have little choice in forming your party like in Origins. What I mean is having the option to form a skeleton crew of just you and Alistair/Loghain, and Dog (if you're a human noble). Of course, I base this soley on the fact that Varric is the narrator, and I believe it was mentioned somewhere that there are other narrators, so I could be wrong.

I felt that killing off/kicking out companions added interesting replay value. I know I thought it was cool to chop Wynne's head off when you meet her for the second time, tell Morrigan off, slaughter Lelianna at the steps of the ashes, leave Sten behind to the darkspawn, merc Zevran right off the bat, etc... If I couldn't do these things, I would have probably only played DA:O once. ME2 did this well, and I have a perfectionist character, one where I just killed off Tali, and currently one where I'm planning on killing off all the alien teammates. Yes, I am racist against fictional, one dimensional species of extraterrestrials.

As for a desired companion, I too would like someone who is a psychopath. If done right, I think it would create a darker, more realistic, and possibly horrific experience to the story with the addition of a unique companion. I say unique, because I feel like all companions in every Bioware game I've played since KOTOR are essentially the same. I'm generalizing, I know, but it's hard not to notice the repeated character types and then to not roll your eyes at them. It's a good thing those character types are usually good.

[Aermas]

I'll say it again, Lawful Evil types are the best to work along side a protagonist. They will not go against the protagonists orders because they are lawful, but they will not like doing it, & will seek to undermine the protagonists virtues. (Example; village is under attack, the Lawful Evil Companion will not help the wounded unless ordered to, he/she may even attack the survivors if they hinder the companion in his task). The Companion is also in a great position to corrupt the protagonist.

[AlanC9]

Adhin wrote...
As for Cousland family being murdered, that was partly due to Loghain. He needed him out of the picture for his plan to 'keep out the Orlesians' since he hates them greatly. He thinks hes doing whats 'right' but ultimately hes killing off everything he loves. Arl howle has some latent dislike of the Couslands due to there history and was the one allowed to 'deal with them'. So all Loghain needed? was the father and mother taken out as they held the most 'pull' when the whole meeting is held after the battle. He also had that other guy (name escapes me) poisoned to take him out of it.

People keep supposing this to be true, but the game doesn't really present any evidence that Loghain thought Teyrn Cousland was a threat.

[Insomniak]

AlanC9 wrote...

Adhin wrote...
As for Cousland family being murdered, that was partly due to Loghain. He needed him out of the picture for his plan to 'keep out the Orlesians' since he hates them greatly. He thinks hes doing whats 'right' but ultimately hes killing off everything he loves. Arl howle has some latent dislike of the Couslands due to there history and was the one allowed to 'deal with them'. So all Loghain needed? was the father and mother taken out as they held the most 'pull' when the whole meeting is held after the battle. He also had that other guy (name escapes me) poisoned to take him out of it.

People keep supposing this to be true, but the game doesn't really present any evidence that Loghain thought Teyrn Cousland was a threat.

True enough, the game did not present evidence, but one could assume that Loghain perceived the Couslands as a threat or as a hinderance to his ascention to power. Mostly due to his character - he never struck me as the type for senseless killing, but rather killing with a purpose (albeit a bit misguided purpose).

Modifié par javajedi217, 13 décembre 2010 - 06:14 .

[Maria Caliban]

DMC12 wrote...

Of course, I base this soley on the fact that Varric is the narrator, and I believe it was mentioned somewhere that there are other narrators, so I could be wrong.

Varric is the narrator. Cassandra sometimes adds to or corrects him.

That said, multiple narrators with conflicting viewpoints? Imagine Varric's description of the Extreme Hawke followed by normal gameplay and then Aveline or Isabela taking over for a bit.

I get tingles just thinking of it.

[Sabariel]

I can see evil companions becoming frustrating very quickly...

Hawke: *spends an hour saving a village from Flemethspawn*
Evil companion: *sets village on fire*
Hawke: ...I hate you.
Evil companion:

[Maria Caliban]

I often wonder if the defense of evil companions would be so strong if they weren't complete puppets to your will when with you. If instead of passively approving or disapproving, Morrigan handed the little girl over to the demon and if you attempted to fight the demon, stood in the corner and watched instead of joining it.

[SDNcN]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I often wonder if the defense of evil companions would be so strong if they weren't complete puppets to your will when with you. If instead of passively approving or disapproving, Morrigan handed the little girl over to the demon and if you attempted to fight the demon, stood in the corner and watched instead of joining it.

I approve of this.

[Drasanil]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I often wonder if the defense of evil companions would be so strong if they weren't complete puppets to your will when with you. If instead of passively approving or disapproving, Morrigan handed the little girl over to the demon and if you attempted to fight the demon, stood in the corner and watched instead of joining it.

+1 to this. I'm not sure how people would react to having companions deciding you're simply wrong and taking matters into their hands. I think it could be interesting as long as you're given a chance to persuade and/or brow beat them into line first.

-Imagine having Shale walk up and squish the Lady of the Forest's head like a ripe melon because she was bored and you failed a coercion test. Werewolves go into a Frenzy.

-Morrigan blasting Wynne to bits.

-Sten cutting down Bann Teagan and getting you run out of Recliffe.

-Zevran ganking Vaughn.

Even works for good PCs.

-Alistair killing Loghain and cuting down Anora, because he needs to see justice done.

-Wynne/Lelianna attack Branka with out your say so.

[Ryzaki]

Ah see that to me would be a good thing. (The PC would loose a bit of their suedom) sort of how Jack can attack the guy on her LM if your paragon score isn't high enough and you don't interrupt her in time.