2299 réponses à ce sujet

[coke addict]

if you think about it earth makes sense as the reapers first stop. its been a human who has stoped them twice so far, they only people who even believ they are real are all humans. and besides what other options do they have. they cant take the citadel, and if they divide thier forces the first planet to get attacked would warn the others. if they attack earth first shepard will bring the whole galaxy rite to them and one huge battle where they have the upper hand is thier best shot. earth is just the bait, i would be willing to beat that more reapers are waiting just outside the solar system to ambush what ever forces shep manages put together

Modifié par coke addict, 16 décembre 2010 - 05:16 .

[Ed B]

I am really looking forward to this. Hopefully it fulfills the promise of ME 1 an ME 2. I am very interested to see what new characters will be introduced. We already see one in the trailer. I also want to see how such side plots as Shephard's relationship with Cerberus and the Illusive man are resolved. It should be a great ride.

[sympathy4saren]

Do you even know what objectivism is? It's is an individual's independent perspective of reality. Objectivism is an axiom and is relevant to anything in existence.



Concrete source for how I know how Reapers think about other species?



These are quotes from Harbinger. Last time I checked, Harbinger was a Reaper:



"Geth: An annoyance. Limited utility."



"Salarian: Insufficient life span. Fragile genetic structure."



" Quarian: Considered due to cybernetic augmentation. Weakened immune system too debilitating."



"Dell: Insufficient numbers."



"Krogan: Sterilized race. Potential wasted."



"Turian: You are considered.....too primitive."



"Asari: Reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness."



Quoting Harbinger isn't indicative of all Reapers, since they are independent. But there....CONCRETE evidence...quoting a Reaper.



Earth will be the focal point, and it is highly unlikely they will be attacking other species. Why? Because if they are attacking other species simultaneously, what race is going to say: "ok, well, I know we are being attacked, but we will send our entire fleet to Earth to help humanity."



Shepard by himself/herself liberating planets from....um....Reapers? Impossible.



But the alternative is that Earth is under attack, and no one else is. Earth is being attacked by aliens!!! For the one millionth time. The Reapers, before they are decharacterized, would not only be doing whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, but if it perceives humanity as a threat, there would be enough guards at the Charon Relay for a 100% statistical certainty nobody would come in or out of the system. So that would be about, what, maybe 5 Reapers? Maximum? Do you remember what one Reaper did to the Turian fleet and the SA? Sovereign annihilated them so badly they were decimated for years. They don't believe in the Reaper threat, so they wouldn't be amassing an army. And Reapers, based on their characterization, would laugh at Turian Thanix cannons.



Sure, Reapers have a drastic interest in humanity. That is a major aspect of the story. But I highly doubt they are afraid. At all. It is my belief they wouldn't view humanity as a threat as much as they are excited to harvest them.



But here I sit, writing about Mass Effect, and my mind and consciousness is primarily in the Local Cluster, on earth being attacked, yet again. I know that I must launch one final mission to save earth, because it said so in the game description. Me, personally....I was hoping for much more than that. I play Mass Effect to escape Earth. As I said, i live on Earth, I die on Earth. Currently looking out my window, I see trees and buildings. I know what a generic futuristic Earth looks like. I believe Earth has a proper role in the game....for obvious reasons. But to center the gsme around it is disappointing.



I'm not trying to start anything or put anybody down. We are all Mass Effect fans...I would move to drink a beer and chat Mass Effect with any of you. I will defend my opinion though. I respect everybody's views...everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just hope you can see my points with the legitimacy it carries.



I'm not alone. There are many, many fans who are frustrated and sad.

[Werrf]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Concrete source for how I know how Reapers think about other species?

These are quotes from Harbinger. Last time I checked, Harbinger was a Reaper:

...

Quoting Harbinger isn't indicative of all Reapers, since they are independent. But there....CONCRETE evidence...quoting a Reaper.

Earth will be the focal point, and it is highly unlikely they will be attacking other species. Why? Because if they are attacking other species simultaneously, what race is going to say: "ok, well, I know we are being attacked, but we will send our entire fleet to Earth to help humanity."

Okay!  Progress

I agree with what you're saying, to a certain extent - the Reapers primary interest is indeed with humans, because humans apparently have the qualities that the Reapers need.  Based on ME2, I'm assuming this means that humans are suitable for conversion into a new Reaper, but they may also be thinking about making new Collectors.  Either way, yes, humans are indeed the Reapers target.

What I think is being missed is the other thing that Reapers do.  They remove all evidence of advanced civilisation, so the next species that arise don't know what happened to their predecessors.  Which means the Asari, Turians, Krogran, Yahg, all are under threat from the Reapers, because they have to be destroyed to complete the cycle.  Otherwise, in 50,000 years when they come back, who knows what they could all be capable of?

So my read on the Reapers is that their plan is to 1) secure the good stock for whatever they need to do with it, then 2) burn off the stubble to leave the field ready to be sown anew - that is, take humanity for conversion into slaves/Reapers, then destroy all other civilisation in the galaxy to get ready for the next cycle.

The whole galaxy is at risk, and if the Reapers are not stopped at phase 1, they'll only grow in strength.  

sympathy4saren wrote...
But the alternative is that Earth is under attack, and no one else is. Earth is being attacked by aliens!!! For the one millionth time. The Reapers, before they are decharacterized, would not only be doing whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, but if it perceives humanity as a threat, there would be enough guards at the Charon Relay for a 100% statistical certainty nobody would come in or out of the system. So that would be about, what, maybe 5 Reapers? Maximum? Do you remember what one Reaper did to the Turian fleet and the SA?

First point, I disagree with this characterisation of the Reapers power.  The Turians, when ambushed at zero range by a fleet of geth ships, lost twenty cruisers.  When Sovereign was on his own, engaging the Alliance fleet, the Alliance lost eight ships.  Eight to one is a pretty impressive number, but hardly a devastating blow, and as soon as Sovereign lost its shields, it went down like an old lady with a broken hip.  So yeah, eight cruisers for one Reaper is an impressive number, but there are fifty thousand ships in the Migrant Fleet, hinted as being a major source of ships for the upcoming battle.  I've no doubt that it would be bloody, but I do doubt it would be total suicide.

Second, why is the fact that the Reapers could guard the Charon relay a knock purely against an Earth based battle?  The same would apply anywhere a final battle was fought.  If you think it would be guarded just because the Reapers perceive humanity as a threat, there's a problem - they've already got humanity.  The relay's primary purpose would be to bring in other species which, as far as I can tell, you're arguing they're not worried about.  

sympathy4saren wrote...

Sure, Reapers have a drastic interest in humanity. That is a major aspect of the story. But I highly doubt they are afraid. At all. It is my belief they wouldn't view humanity as a threat as much as they are excited to harvest them.

It can't be both?

Picture the Reapers not as eldritch abominations from beyond the great whatever, but as human farmers.  They go to herd their pigs out to the slaughter house, only to realise that the pigs have broken out of the controls that were set up and are wandering loose in the woods.  The farmers go out to hunt their pigs down, but one of them, the big boar leading the herd, has got some impressive tusks, and he's already killed two herdsmen who were sent out to bring him back.  He'll make great pork, but if he manages to get too close he'll make a real mess of the farmer.  So the farmer is both excited about the promise of the harvest, and also just a bit afraid of that boar.

sympathy4saren wrote...
But here I sit, writing about Mass Effect, and my mind and consciousness is primarily in the Local Cluster, on earth being attacked, yet again. I know that I must launch one final mission to save earth, because it said so in the game description. Me, personally....I was hoping for much more than that. I play Mass Effect to escape Earth. As I said, i live on Earth, I die on Earth. Currently looking out my window, I see trees and buildings. I know what a generic futuristic Earth looks like. I believe Earth has a proper role in the game....for obvious reasons. But to center the gsme around it is disappointing.

The first game was centered around saving the Citadel, but only a couple of plot-important missions took place there.  Most of the game was about exploring the galaxy.  The second game was about saving human colonies, and we visited a grand total of two of them, both empty.  BioWare's first game, Baldur's Gate - you don't even reach the city it's named for until towards the end!  Having the game centered around Earth does NOT mean that the game will be focusing excessively on the planet, only that it's our end goal.

Hope that made sense.

[Daryst]

I like the way this is going. Some very nice theories and thoughts *thumbs up*. But I would like to mention the following two things. If you decided to have the council destroyed, which is the default ending of ME1 when you select a default character in ME2. The turians neglect the Treaty of Farixen. And start to produce more ships.

Also the reason that the reapers always won was the fact that they cut out the heart of the galactic civilization. The moment they came through the Citadel Mass Relay and destroyed the seat of goverment, it was over. They would control the Relays and would systematically take down system by system.

In the current situation, the reapers are "known", thus they have lost the element of surprise and lost there biggest asset. They now only have there numbers and technology. And although they are strong, they are not, as proven by the battle of the citadel, invinsible.

We just have to find a weakpoint. Who knows, they might be allergic to a bacteria on earth like in War of the Worlds xD

Modifié par Daryst, 16 décembre 2010 - 10:02 .

[Werrf]

Daryst wrote...

We just have to find a weakpoint. Who knows, they might be allergic to a bacteria on earth like in War of the Worlds xD

Judging by the first game, all we need to do is get some turians indoctrinated, then kill them, and the Reapers shields go down.

We just need some volunteers...

"Ah, yes, 'weak points', the alleged part of immortal machine-gods that supposedly renders them vulnerable to our weapons.  We have dismissed this..." *BANG!*

I'm sure turians, being such good team players, won't mind taking one for the team, right??

[Mir5]

Werrf wrote...

Picture the Reapers not as eldritch abominations from beyond the great whatever, but as human farmers.  They go to herd their pigs out to the slaughter house, only to realise that the pigs have broken out of the controls that were set up and are wandering loose in the woods.  The farmers go out to hunt their pigs down, but one of them, the big boar leading the herd, has got some impressive tusks, and he's already killed two herdsmen who were sent out to bring him back.  He'll make great pork, but if he manages to get too close he'll make a real mess of the farmer.  So the farmer is both excited about the promise of the harvest, and also just a bit afraid of that boar.

It's more like two farmers decided to stand on weak chairs and put a hanging nooses around their necks, then waited for the boar to accidently kick the chairs off while trying to nib the farmers' ankles.
And then the third farmer comes and starts yelling how that boar is a worthy foe and how he will assimilate the properties of a race of pigs into himself.

Earlier someone made a comparison to what if the fight took place on Palaven. Yes, it would be lame, but not as lame as on earth. Why? Because earth has the loss of being familiar, makes it predictable, boring. And if it's made special somehow there's an almost certain risk of the reason behind this speciality being unbelievable, and thus forced.

Modifié par Mir5, 17 décembre 2010 - 01:15 .

[Ghost lead]

Daryst wrote...

We just have to find a weakpoint. Who knows, they might be allergic to a bacteria on earth like in War of the Worlds xD

The Keepers.

[Mir5]

Ghost lead wrote...

Daryst wrote...

We just have to find a weakpoint. Who knows, they might be allergic to a bacteria on earth like in War of the Worlds xD

The Keepers.

Was gonna say something about rectals and gods from machines, but I got interested. Seriously, keepers?

[Ghost lead]

well think about in ME1 the keepers were there before the Protheans, and yet they are the activation of the mass relay on the Citadel, so I mean if they can bring the Repears through a mass relay, then they might be the Repears destruction.

Modifié par Ghost lead, 17 décembre 2010 - 01:26 .

[thetruefreemo]

Firespray38 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

So now both Halo and ME series have something common. The last chapters of the both series are about saving Earth.

I think you forgot he whole "ancient, powerful race destroyed by another powerful race that existed before them, died in last ditch attempt to save/warn the galaxy" plot point that happens in both series.

Hehe, I know what to put here. 

Shepard is floating in the back half of the destroyed Normandy SR3. 

EDI: Shepard, can you hear me? I thought I lost you too.

Shepard: What happened?

EDI: I'm not sure. When Harbinger attached to the Citadel, it shook itself to pieces. Did a number on the Citadel. The Gateway couldn't be maintained. We made it through just as it collapsed. Some of us made it.... But you did it. Harbinger, the Reapers, the Geth, it's finished.

Shepard: It's finished.

He snaps his Avenger Assault rifle into the nearby weapons rack.

EDI: I'll drop a beacon. It will be a while before anyone finds us. Years even.

Shepard steps into the cryo pod and as the hatch is closing. 

EDI: I'll miss you.

Shepard: Wake me, when you need me. 

The hatch seals shut. The camera zooms out to show the debris of the SR3 Normandy floating toward the silhouette of a reaper that comes into view with the light of a blue star. The screen fades to white.

Modifié par thetruefreemo, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:00 .

[Ghost lead]

thetruefreemo wrote...

Firespray38 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

So now both Halo and ME series have something common. The last chapters of the both series are about saving Earth.

I think you forgot he whole "ancient, powerful race destroyed by another powerful race that existed before them, died in last ditch attempt to save/warn the galaxy" plot point that happens in both series.

Hehe, I know what to put here. 

Shepard is floating in the back half of the destroyed Normandy SR3. 

EDI: Shepard, can you hear me? I thought I lost you too.

Shepard: What happened?

EDI: I'm not sure. When Harbinger attached to the Citadel, it shook itself to pieces. Did a number on the Citadel. The Gateway couldn't be maintained. We made it through just as it collapsed. Some of us made it.... But you did it. Harbinger, the Reapers, the Geth, it's finished.

Shepard: It's finished.

He snaps his Avenger Assault rifle into the nearby weapons rack.

EDI: I'll drop a beacon. It will be a while before anyone finds us. Years even.

Shepard steps into the cryo pod and as the hatch is closing. 

EDI: I'll miss you.

Shepard: Wake me, when you need me. 

The hatch seals shut. The camera zooms out to show the debris of the SR3 Normandy floating toward the silhouette of a reaper that comes into view with the light of a blue star. The screen fades to white.

lol SR3 why would they destroy the seond one

[IrishGunman]

Here is my idea for ME3 start,



Maybe we get dropped into a huge battle in London, Shepard crew from ME2 is there fighting, Reapers blow stuff up, maybe we lose a squadmate or 2 in the fighting( to make room for new people). Then they have to evac out of London.



Thats the starting cut scene.

[Ghost lead]

ou know I wonder if there is a commit suicide option in the game

[sympathy4saren]

A final battle in darkspace would be awesome. To visit this so-called "realm of existence so far beyond (my) own" that I "could not even imagine" would be completely fascinating. I wonder what epicness BioWare could come up with for it.

[Ghost lead]

you know there might two parts of the final battle sympathy4saren, one in dark space and one the galaxy we are in, now the epicness is by far one thing i can just only picture trillions of repear ships and maybe only millions of alliance, and council race ships advancing on each other, same scale battle on the ground.

Modifié par Ghost lead, 17 décembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Getorex]

garden girl wrote...

Still want to know HOW the reapers got t Earth.



Hope it's not a stupid reason

IF ME3 follows logically/consistently with the story of ME1/ME2, then we can conjecture that they did the deed via some sort of "dark energy" manipulation in a star or stars (remember why Tali was on that planet needing to be rescued (and recruited) by Shepard).

Presumably (we can hope) the story will build to point and the London/earth city battles will be part of the "final battle" set of ME3.

If ME3 is something akin to ME2 and designed to be playable all on its lonesome without expecting the player to play ME1 and ME2 first (what kind of **** looser wouldn't play the previous 2 in the trilogy?), the it will be some stupid, out of the butt nonsense reason.

[sympathy4saren]

I'm glad that you are as vocal as I am, Awesome Name. I'm a huge Mass Effect fan...I view it as a piece of sophisticated literature as much as I do a kick ass awesome video game. For good reason...it is up until now The Best Piece Of Fiction Ever. I'm not even a stereotypical dork...I'm just an intelligent, average, normal person who likes writing, video games, sports, music and all the normal stuff...but I love sci fi and I adore great writing and storytelling. But this is a big thing....and it has been bugging me like hell. And not just you or me...I wee a lot of others who share this view, and now 2 people who don't even write on this forum. My cousin, who doesn't even like Mass Effect, and is a fan of first person shooters like Halo....said dude, whats so special about me3...looks like its just another alien invasion on earth. I then saw a co-worker who is a ME fan who said he cannot believe how earth-centered the game is. He seemed disappointed, too.



I wish so much they would just destroy Earth. It has ruined this series now. Seriously.

[MisterDyslexo]

I trust Bioware to handle Earth pretty well. I mean the rest of the series is chock full of cleches, but they're all done with a creative twist that makes it very unique. I mean what was the Battle of the Citadel? What about Feros; a small backwater settlement with no importanceseemingly nothing of value gets attacked by aliens looking for an ancient technology (The Thorian/Cipher). I've seen the conclusion to Garrus' loyalty mission plenty of times, but this time its unique because it has a twist thats expanded upon. I have some faith in Bioware on this. I've lost faith in politicians, the military, the schools, the children, the major businesses, but not Bioware. Sorta sad really.

[Ghost lead]

As I see this game, I believe as we all see this series, the Mass Effect series is about choices, about options, about survival, all from the start. I mean lets start from the start, we become Commander Shepard, a man who is a hero, a ruthless bastard or a survivor, once from then we had made choices to go for goodness of humanity and to show that humans can doing something benefical for the sake of the Galaxy, Whether we kill Wrex off, or let the council die, it affects us aka "our Commander Shepard". In ME2 we finally see what are choice have shown us in the now from the then, alot of backstabing to out right dismissed claims and lie, and in the end of it we had the choice to die or live and move forward.



In ME 1 & 2 we could go back and play the game over and over again till we got what we wanted whether we went down the renegade or paragon path, adn if we went Renegade then hell were going to stick to it, if we went to the Paragon path, then we know that in ME3 we will make some tough choices where what we thought as renegade is in a sense is Paragon. See I think in ME3 this fight is not only the matter of survival, but on a matter where if we will cross the line to let destruction touch and beat down upon a planet, whether that maybe Earth or Tuchunka, I think that even Paragon players will question with every choice they make is it the right one, will some of us paragon players really want to let planet Earth be destroyed by our enemy, I mean think about it, I doubt anyone of us would risk being give the option to either wipe out a entire race of life or save a planet that could help out in the war against the Reapers.



In all points being I do not believe this is centered on Earth nor is it centered on the galaxy, but its centered on "our Commander Shepard" and his choices whether we want to make Humanity or the galaxy or Shepard himself/herself the center of this game. Its up to our choice ingame to decide whether or not this will all happen.

[sympathy4saren]

Star Wars Return of the Jedi's final battle took place between the second Death Star and a random moon. Worked out pretty dang well. In fact, it was awesome.

[Lukertin]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Star Wars Return of the Jedi's final battle took place between the second Death Star and a random moon. Worked out pretty dang well. In fact, it was awesome.

There wasn't an Earth in Star Wars.  In fact, in the entire Star Wars trilogy you get identified with like 5 planets, 3 of which are backwaters nobody really cares about, and the other two are basically uninhabitable barren wastelands.  Nobody cares about the planets, it's about the characters.

Whereas in sci-fi like ME, which takes place in an imagined future timeline of this universe, humans and Earth are a stark background factor in the story.  I understand why BioWare would want to make Earth the center of this last game--to appeal more to the public.  A couple issues I have with this thought is that those who are going to buy and play ME3 are going to be the same people who bought and played ME1&2.  I don't think there will be many people buying ME3 who didn't play through ME1&2, but additionally, it's not like Halo where nobody cared about the plot/storyline and people just bought the game so they could MP w/ their friends

[JaegerBane]

Mir5 wrote...

Earlier someone made a comparison to what if the fight took place on Palaven. Yes, it would be lame, but not as lame as on earth. Why? Because earth has the loss of being familiar, makes it predictable, boring. And if it's made special somehow there's an almost certain risk of the reason behind this speciality being unbelievable, and thus forced.

There's some pretty amazing leaps of logic behind this train of thought. I don't know where the completely arbitrary assumption of something less familiar is instantly superior to something more familiar has been made, and I don't really understand why the assumption was made either. If you want to cling to these assumptions and arbitrary standpoints then by all means, go right ahead - but don't pretend they're anything more than that.

Whether the 'fight' is boring and predictable or amazing and entertaining will depend on the writing and the script, not the simplistic choice of where it will be set. Do you think Blade Runner would have been a clearly better film if it was set on another planet, for instance?

There's been a desire to see Earth from the fans since the original Mass Effect was released. Earth is no more or less a choice for the final showdown (if, indeed, it is the setting for the finale) than anywhere else, and whether the finale is good or bad will depend on whether the story supports it.

I know this forum has it's hardcore elements who will literally complain about everything, but making these sweeping declarations based on no more than a few lines of text from EA and a minute-long trailer is absurd even by those standards.