650 réponses à ce sujet

[Markinator_123]

Zavox wrote...

Don't be so self-righteous. Are you willing to let innocent people die for the sake of your ideals? Many people are not ready to die for your ideals.

Wouldn't you sacrifice alot for the freedom of speech for example?

Freedom of speech is no good if you're dead.

[Zavox]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Zavox wrote...

Don't be so self-righteous. Are you willing to let innocent people die for the sake of your ideals? Many people are not ready to die for your ideals.

Wouldn't you sacrifice alot for the freedom of speech for example?

Freedom of speech is no good if you're dead.

It is for the others that might survive if you take the risk. Besides, a life without freedom is no life at all.

Modifié par Zavox, 12 décembre 2010 - 10:04 .

[Inverness Moon]

Zavox wrote...

I never said it was good, I said it's better than the alternative.

I would never think destroying what could hold your holy chance to defeat the reapers when you have a near-zero percent chance of defeating them is better than the alternative.

Zavox wrote...

Then you make an even worse decision.

What I do is work with what I got instead of falling into wishful thinking. I know that TIM intends to work to destroy the reapers, I need nothing more than that.

Zavox wrote...

For the simple reason that Harbinger does not need to control the Collector general 24/7, but he would have to control the station 24/7? In light of the drain it apperantly causes... I think it's a fairly logical solution.

For the third time. If Harbinger could control the station directly there would be no need for a collector general. I'm tired of repeating myself.

Zavox wrote...

Hint: Go watch Saren after the first fight or suicide. He will shed every organic tissue and be solely controlled by the reaper without any 'identity' left. Which is what explains the sudden shield drop when 'Saren' gets destroyed.

I was referring to how you knew there was nothing organic left.

Zavox wrote...

It's still a gotcha, if you do concentrate on the geth, you're doing the same as saving the Destiny Ascension. Plus if you save the Destiny Ascension you've got something else watching your back. It's either no concentration on the geth or concentration on the geth and thus saving the Destiny Ascension. Would be kind of strange to concentrate on the geth, thus losing firepower, but not save the Destiny Ascension and the possible stability in the galaxy. Nice try to get yourself out of it though.

First of all, when you brought this up, it was pretty obvious that you were referring to the 3 choices you're given when saving the Citadel. Now you're trying to change the subject into something else in order to pull a gotcha which is ridiculous. None of the 3 choices mean ignoring the geth. I'm not going to explain to you what "concentrate" does and doesn't mean.

Next, the Destiny Ascension was tasked with evacuating the Council, it isn't going to stick around for the fight and risk being destroyed again. I would not expect it to either.

Finally, nowhere did I suggest I would concentrate on the geth, and as I said before, concentrating on Sovereign does not mean ignoring the geth.

So no, it isn't a gotcha, it's you trying to distort the choices given to you in ME1, along with the definition of concentrate, to mean something other than the obvious in order to attempt a gotcha.

Antares1987 wrote...

The Thanix cannon was turian developed and it was used on Sovereign when it attacked the Citadel.

Okay, I'm going to post a quote from the article on Sovereign on the Mass Effect Wiki. I also want to add that it REALLY irritates me when people enter arguments without knowing simple things like this:

After its destruction, most of Sovereign's debris rained down on the Wards. Between rescue workers looking for survivors and the keepers cleaning up the mess, little of Sovereign's technology could be studied. Some turian researchers discovered that Sovereign's main gun used an electromagnetic field to fire a stream of molten metal at a fraction of the speed of light. These turians reverse-engineered their own version soon after, dubbed the Thanix Cannon. However, what remained was not enough to convince the Council that Sovereign was anything more than a geth construct. Some pieces were recovered by Cerberus to fit into the AI onboard the new Normandy, to use as anti-Reaper algorithms.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 12 décembre 2010 - 10:12 .

[Zavox]

Antares1987 wrote...

The Thanix cannon was turian developed and it was used on Sovereign when it attacked the Citadel.

No, he's right about that:

"Following the Battle of the Citadel, human and turian volunteers
conducted a massive three-month survey effort to clear the station's
orbit of debris. Secretly, the turian Office of Technological
Reconnaissance "volunteers" were technology recovery specialists
salvaging the main weapon of the geth flagship Sovereign, and large
amounts of its valuable element zero core.
Contrary to popular belief, Sovereign's main gun was not a
directed energy weapon. Rather, its massive element zero core powered an
electromagnetic field suspending a liquid iron-uranium-tungsten alloy
that shaped into armor-piercing projectiles when fired. The jet of
molten metal, accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light, destroys
targets by impact force and irresistible heat.
Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix,
their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire
reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but
mountable on a fighter or frigate."

[Kudara]

All of you are arguing about nothing in regards to the Collector Base, it won't matter whether or not you destroyed it or kept it in ME3 because of the events in the third ME book.



Watch and wait, I'll bet I'm correct that it won't make a bit of difference either way.

[Zavox]

Inverness Moon wrote...

I would never think destroying what could hold your holy chance to defeat the reapers when you have a near-zero percent chance of defeating them is better than the alternative.

It is when you otherwise have a following problem to worry about, or for that matter, hoping that an untrustworthy person so far will keep all his promisses. But I guess this will be a matter of belief between the two of us.

What I do is work with what I got instead of falling into wishful thinking. I know that TIM intends to work to destroy the reapers, I need nothing more than that.

I do, I also know that the entire galaxy will be united when the reapers attack. I'm not so sure if that will happen if I give the base to TIM and kill the council, that should end up in war between races and easier for reapers to swoop in. Or atleast alot less help from the races you've screwed over. Which if you do find the holy grail might acually balance things out.

For the third time. If Harbinger could control the station directly there would be no need for a collector general. I'm tired of repeating myself.

Read again please, I said that Harbinger would have to control the station 24/7 to operate it (constructing the reaper). He would not have to control the collector general 24/7 because they are capable of operating on themselves and thus the station. It's in light of the drain a more logical choice.

I was referring to how you knew there was nothing organic left.

I know, and I was refering to using your eyes. 

First of all, when you brought this up, it was pretty obvious that you were referring to the 3 choices you're given when saving the Citadel. Now you're trying to change the subject into something else in order to pull a gotcha which is ridiculous. None of the 3 choices mean ignoring the geth. I'm not going to explain to you what "concentrate" does and doesn't mean.

Next, the Destiny Ascension was tasked with evacuating the Council, it isn't going to stick around for the fight and risk being destroyed again. I would not expect it to either.

Finally, nowhere did I suggest I would concentrate on the geth, and as I said before, concentrating on Sovereign does not mean ignoring the geth.

So no, it isn't a gotcha, it's you trying to distort the choices given to you in ME1, along with the definition of concentrate, to mean something other than the obvious in order to attempt a gotcha.

Sigh... 5:20 and onwards... enlighten yourself.

Small transcript of what Hackett says: All Alliance ships, hold formation, wait for a shot at Sovereign. Nothing else matters! Repeat... blabla.

So please, do not blame me of something you do yourself. <_<

Modifié par Zavox, 12 décembre 2010 - 10:57 .

[Jagri]

For the third time. If Harbinger could control the station directly there would be no need for a collector general. I'm tired of repeating myself.



Read again please, I said that Harbinger would have to control the station 24/7 to operate it (constructing the reaper). He would not have to control the collector general 24/7 because they are capable of operating on themselves and thus the station. It's in light of the drain a more logical choice.

Put it more simply its being stated that Harbinger can choice to control the Collector's Base at anytime whenever he desires. When the Reapers were sleeping in dark space the Collector General would watch over operations. I am guessing with the death of Sovereign it drew Harbingers attentions to the Collector Base to assume control and find out as much as he can about these "humans" who were messing with their plans.

[Zavox]

Antares1987 wrote...

 Alright i've misread that but it was the Turians, not Cerberus, who made it and it was close to a year to come up with those results. Cerberus can be reckless, they won't have enough time to fully study it and when the Reapers come they're gonna run on fear and get sloppy.

True enough, can't chalk this one up to Cerberus.

Jagri wrote...

Put it more simply its being stated that Harbinger can choice to control the Collector's Base at anytime whenever he desires. When the Reapers were sleeping in dark space the Collector General would watch over operations. I am guessing with the death of Sovereign it drew Harbingers attentions to the Collector Base to assume control and find out as much as he can about these "humans" who were messing with their plans.

Good point, even more logical reasoning as to why there is a Collector General.

Modifié par Zavox, 12 décembre 2010 - 10:34 .

[Zavox]

Kudara wrote...

All of you are arguing about nothing in regards to the Collector Base, it won't matter whether or not you destroyed it or kept it in ME3 because of the events in the third ME book.

Watch and wait, I'll bet I'm correct that it won't make a bit of difference either way.

It was the biggest decision you make in Mass Effect 2 and you're going to say it doesn't matter either way? Sure we'll defeat the Reapers either way, but I'm certain there's going to be a difference between the two.

[Inverness Moon]

Zavox wrote...

It's not when you have a following problem to worry about, or for that matter, hoping that an untrustworthy person so far will keep all his promisses. But I guess this will be a matter of belief between the two of us.

The one thing I trust TIM to do at this point is to work towards defeating the reapers.

Zavox wrote...

I do, I also know that the entire galaxy will be united when the reapers attack. I'm not so sure if that will happen if I give the base to TIM and kill the council, that should end up in war between races and easier for reapers to swoop in. Or atleast alot less help from the races you've screwed over. Which if you do find the holy grail might acually balance things out.

Why would giving the collector base to TIM hinder efforts to unite the galaxy? It's not like I'm going to go around telling everybody I did it. And it's not like TIM is going to go around advertising that he has access to highly advanced technology while people can still do something about it.

Zavox wrote...

Read again please, I said that Harbinger would have to control the station 24/7 to operate it (constructing the reaper). He would not have to control the collector general 24/7 because they are capable of operating on themselves and thus the station. It's in light of the drain a more logical choice.

I don't believe the collector general was operating itself until it was about to die at the end of ME2.

Zavox wrote...

I know, and I was refering to using your eyes. 

Looks can be deceiving. I also feel like if I get further into this I'm going to end up pointing out the obvious again.

Zavox wrote...

Sigh... 5:20 and onwards... enlighten yourself.

Small transcript of what Hackett says: All Alliance ships, hold formation, wait for a shot at Sovereign. Nothing else matters! Repeat... blabla.

So please, do not blame me of something you do yourself. <_<

Here I ago pointing out the obvious again. You're taking that too literally, because it makes no sense for any of them to ignore incoming fire from the geth. If they did, they would loose ships they need to take care of Sovereign.

Holding formation does not mean not defending yourself either.

Edit: You're also using an event after the fact to try to prove whatever point you're trying to make, it doesn't work that way. If I tell them to concentrate on Sovereign that does not mean I want them to ignore everything but Sovereign. If they do, it's their own damned fault.

Antares1987 wrote...

 Alright i've misread that but it was the Turians, not Cerberus, who made it and it was close to a year to come up with those results. Cerberus can be reckless, they won't have enough time to fully study it and when the Reapers come they're gonna run on fear and get sloppy.

You seem to be forgetting the part where it was EDI and not the Thanix Canon that was essential to your mission. I'm getting quite tired of pointing out the obvious.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 12 décembre 2010 - 11:01 .

[Lotto]

of course i kept the base. i did everything to give myself a fighting chance in ME3.

[Googlesaurus]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Googlesaurus wrote...

Where does it say that the Reapers use nanotechnology to indoctrinate organics?

I said they used nanomachines to manipulate organic bodies and control them from great distances using quantum entanglement technology. This was discovered in Retribution.

I see. 

[Zavox]

Inverness Moon wrote...

The one thing I trust TIM to do at this point is to work towards defeating the reapers.

So do I trust all the organisms to do the same, I mean, who would want annihilation? It's just that I'm not sure if there will be cooperation if TIM has the base and what he'll do with it. But like I said, lets just chalk this up to our beliefs alright?

Why would giving the collector base to TIM hinder efforts to unite the galaxy? It's not like I'm going to go around telling everybody I did it. And it's not like TIM is going to go around advertising that he has access to highly advanced technology while people can still do something about it.

Ehm, well maybe because it's TIM? They know you're allied with TIM so the alliance will not fall in line. Nor the Turians or Quarians for that matter. It's best to just cut TIM out of the equation. As for the base itself, how are you going to present evidence to the alliance and/or council and whoever else you want about the reapers (the datepad in that last scene Joker gives you). "Yeah, me and TIM just found it floating around in space". Besides, any new weapons will be highly suspect, and other races will notice it's reaper tech. Kinda will be a 1+1=2, and then they will know you haven't been trustworthy and klabam. How bigger it is, how more improbable it is to hide.

I don't believe the collector general was operating itself until it was about to die at the end of ME2.

Then you're one of the few. The twitching of it's mandibles was pretty convincing, not to mention his look backwards to the explosion.

Looks can be deceiving. I also feel like if I get further into this I'm going to end up pointing out the obvious again.

Yes, he just sheds 90% of it's body... wtf would be the point of that? If he's shedding a large part of it, why not everything? It's not like he needs the blood vessels, as those have been shedded for sure. At most I'd suspect some braintissue. But then again, that brain had been shot to pieces in the suicide.

Here I ago pointing out the obvious again. You're taking that too literally, because it makes no sense for any of them to ignore incoming fire from the geth. If they did, they would loose ships they need to take care of Sovereign.

Holding formation does not mean not defending yourself either.

Edit: You're also using an event after the fact to try to prove whatever point you're trying to make, it doesn't work that way. If I tell them to concentrate on Sovereign that does not mean I want them to ignore everything but Sovereign. If they do, it's their own damned fault.

He litterally said to wait for a shot at Sovereign, what else is there to interpret. I've never heard an officer order his soldiers to hold fire, but then expect them to fire at something else. You need to be specific when commanding, not expect something of them. His orders were clear and that's all you get, you're the one that's assuming he means more. Also if you watch the scene a bit better, you will see that the Alliance definately is ignoring the geth and do nothing to them.

Good point that it was indeed an event after the choice, it's merely something though to prove that concentrate meant neglect everything else and shoot down Sovereign. Concentrate usually means neglect other parts to focus on something else.
And besides, even if he did take care of the geth aswell, what... and I'm repeating myself here, what would be the point of letting the Destiny Ascension fall? In both instances you need ships to take care of the Geth.. might aswell save the Destiny Ascension while you're in the process. Large reward, very small drawback if you take care of the geth anyway.

Seriously, this thought process about concentrating on Sovereign is really flawed. Either you concentrate solely on Sovereign and should get outflanked by the geth OR you concentrate on Sovereign while battling the geth and thus saving or close to saving the Destiny Ascension. Take a bit more effort and you have a big reward. It's flawed, just admit it.

Modifié par Zavox, 12 décembre 2010 - 11:35 .

[lovgreno]

Lotto wrote...

of course i kept the base. i did everything to give myself a fighting chance in ME3.

A good enough reason, Shep has little to lose with gambling like that. The high risk of the Base causing more damage than help is still there though so Shep has possibly screwed up everything both with keeping and destroying it. ME is full with decisions like that.

[Zavox]

Yes, it's exactly that. Both paragon and renegade have valid reasons for destroying or saving the base. It's just that the renegades are constantly jabbering on about paragons doing it without logic and reasoning. "paragons just press the blue button". That's just ridiculous.

[Vaenier]

Zavox wrote...

Yes, it's exactly that. Both paragon and renegade have valid reasons for destroying or saving the base. It's just that the renegades are constantly jabbering on about paragons doing it without logic and reasoning. "paragons just press the blue button". That's just ridiculous.

If you are paragon, you only use the blue button. if you sometimes use the red button when it is smarter, you are Paragade... Renagon... something...

[lovgreno]

It's funny how the pro paragon crowd usualy try to support both options despite personal preferences but the renegade fans are often stuck in claiming that renegade are always the only logical choice.

[Zavox]

Vaenier wrote...

Zavox wrote...

Yes, it's exactly that. Both paragon and renegade have valid reasons for destroying or saving the base. It's just that the renegades are constantly jabbering on about paragons doing it without logic and reasoning. "paragons just press the blue button". That's just ridiculous.

If you are paragon, you only use the blue button. if you sometimes use the red button when it is smarter, you are Paragade... Renagon... something...

Semantics. I rarely press renegade options for moral reasons next to logical reasons. I do however press neutral quite often aswell. But if you want to call me paragade for 60% paragon 30% neutral 10% renegade. Be my guest.

I'd still call myself paragon though, as that is what I'm most inclined to go for. If both are logical, I go for the most moral one, which usually is paragon. Thus I see myself as paragon.

lovgreno wrote...

It's funny how the pro paragon crowd usualy try to support both options
despite personal preferences but the renegade fans are often stuck in
claiming that renegade are always the only logical choice.

Yeah I've noticed, good luck getting them to notice though.

Modifié par Zavox, 12 décembre 2010 - 11:47 .

[Merlin 47]

lovgreno wrote...

It's funny how the pro paragon crowd usualy try to support both options despite personal preferences but the renegade fans are often stuck in claiming that renegade are always the only logical choice.

I know......it's funny that way, isn't it?  I do agree with you on this, Lovgreno; I have yet to see any Renegade player say that destroying the base was a good idea, yet I've seen plenty of Paragon players agree that keeping it has its advantages.

[Yakko77]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I don't regret blowing that abomination to hell but this is pretty well done!

[Dave of Canada]

Sorry but blowing it up because you don't want to compromise your "humanity" isn't logical.

... also, in most debates Paragons want the happily-ever-after ending and don't want their decisions to punish them.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 décembre 2010 - 12:08 .

[greed89]

I am Reminded of the Old Aesop, the Scorpion and the Frog



http://en.wikipedia....on_and_the_Frog



the Moral is, is that some thing that is dangerous and toxic, will always prove to be Dangerous and Toxic, and if u ignore its nature you will have no one to blame but your self when you get stung



that's how i feel about the reaper base and Reaper Tech