650 réponses à ce sujet

[Zavox]

Vaenier wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

When that which you don't understand has a history of screwing things up? Yeah I'd blow it up first ask questions later.

Did you kill the Rachni too?

It's not the same premise Vaenier, you had the chance to talk to the Rachni and then consider your options. Besides it's only one queen and that doesn't pose much of a galactic threat that a reaper base in Cerberus hands can do. Oh, and you're actively committing genocide, I don't think destroying that base equals to that.

[Reiella]

Vaenier wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

Man, the way people are popping to conclusions you would think the collector base has all the weaknesses of the reapers in an easy to read instruction manual. Maybe in me3 you will find harbingers diary or something

I think the point is you dont know. And blowing it up without knowing is just dumb. Its better to find out first, study it, try to understand. If it ends up not being worth it, then blow it up.

When has the moral ever been to destroy that which you do not understand?

Unforunately, it's a radial choice game, and the options were Kerboom it, or hand it over to something that's been portrayed as a Cartoon Villain (in terms of 'plan' success/competance) for the sake of the plot.

It's unforunate that the false dichotomy logical fallacy can not be denied as such when talking about a CRPG, but oh well there ya go :/.

[Inverness Moon]

greed89 wrote...

Edi may  of been made form studying reaper tech but that dosnt mean she IS reaper tech

Reaper tech is Always danegerous, every time  peeople mess with it  bad **** happens

Saren, The miners on that side mision, the dead reaper

its a Fool me once  situation

I know, and the same concept applies to the collector base. Taking stuff out of it and using it as-is is extremely dangerous. Studying that technology to reverse engineer your own is certainly not.

[Epic777]

Vaenier wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

I think the point is you dont know. And blowing it up without knowing is just dumb. Its better to find out first, study it, try to understand. If it ends up not being worth it, then blow it up.

When has the moral ever been to destroy that which you do not understand?

I think the point is you dont know <- thats the problem, you have no idea wether it would be good or bad. Shepard is not keeping the base TIM is.
That could also be tuned around into the idiom ,"Do not tempt fate".

Modifié par Epic777, 13 décembre 2010 - 03:19 .

[Zavox]

Inverness Moon wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Edi may  of been made form studying reaper tech but that dosnt mean she IS reaper tech

Reaper tech is Always danegerous, every time  peeople mess with it  bad **** happens

Saren, The miners on that side mision, the dead reaper

its a Fool me once  situation

I know, and the same concept applies to the collector base. Taking stuff out of it and using it as-is is extremely dangerous. Studying that technology to reverse engineer your own is certainly not.

Cerberus was studying the technology on the dead reaper... look what happened.

[greed89]

Inverness Moon wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Edi may  of been made form studying reaper tech but that dosnt mean she IS reaper tech

Reaper tech is Always danegerous, every time  peeople mess with it  bad **** happens

Saren, The miners on that side mision, the dead reaper

its a Fool me once  situation

I know, and the same concept applies to the collector base. Taking stuff out of it and using it as-is is extremely dangerous. Studying that technology to reverse engineer your own is certainly not.

thats like putting a loaded gun infront of a child and telling him to look but dont touch

Cerberus wouldnt stop at simply studying it [which wouldlikely **** them over any way]

Modifié par greed89, 13 décembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[Sinapus]

Collider wrote...

I blew it up because I in no way trust Cerberus to:
a. Not blow themselves up with it.
b. Use it in a moral or logical manner.

c. Not have it backfire and end up being a major cause of the problem you see in the trailer.

Interesting presumption, isn't it? That blowing up the base will invariably "bite those icky awful Paragons in the butt" while keeping the base somehow won't have any negative consequences? It might not matter either way. These are the Reapers. They've been doing these cullings for millions of years. They're going to be difficult, even if they don't have complete surprise this time around.

Oh and people making the Cerberus and Team Rocket comparison are being entirely unfair. 

To Team Rocket.

[Arijharn]

Zavox wrote...
Right, so you don't believe hoping for some holy grail technology is wishful thinking?

The fact of the matter is is this; while both sides of this argument is taking a massive gamble, it's a safer assumption to keep the base because realistically speaking, how can you be absolutely positive that another method will fall into your lap to stop the Reapers?

Look at it right from the position of technological parity with the Reapers. There isn't any. The Collector's, the Reapers pawns, were about x years ahead of galactic standard, which means that utilizing that technology is x years ahead of what the Reapers could anticipate us being at when they arrive. Therefore, the gain in technology granted is logically going to help save lives more-so than merely hoping for the best.

That's why not keeping the Collector base is illogical, because you need something that can help bridge the technological divide between the Reapers, and there is nothing to assume that you'll otherwise be able to bridge that gap. Even if the technology isn't mass produced by the time the Reapers get here, you still have the Collector's homeworld which implies that the homeworld would be enough to produce all the armaments that the Collectors utilize.

Also; nothing quite breeds innovation than war.

If anything the reapers can control the base from afar if need be, just like they did with Grayson. That line of thinking makes it a better safe than sorry decision for paragon. Especially if you take the possible consequences of giving it to Cerberus in mind.

That is a risk, but I believe it's manageable simply because the Reapers couldn't have anticipated that people could find and remove a functioning Reaper IFF from a Reaper corpse. The Collector Base itself wasn't actually a Reaper as well.

[Zavox]

Arijharn wrote...

Zavox wrote...
Right, so you don't believe hoping for some holy grail technology is wishful thinking?

The fact of the matter is is this; while both sides of this argument is taking a massive gamble, it's a safer assumption to keep the base because realistically speaking, how can you be absolutely positive that another method will fall into your lap to stop the Reapers?

Look at it right from the position of technological parity with the Reapers. There isn't any. The Collector's, the Reapers pawns, were about x years ahead of galactic standard, which means that utilizing that technology is x years ahead of what the Reapers could anticipate us being at when they arrive. Therefore, the gain in technology granted is logically going to help save lives more-so than merely hoping for the best.

That's why not keeping the Collector base is illogical, because you need something that can help bridge the technological divide between the Reapers, and there is nothing to assume that you'll otherwise be able to bridge that gap. Even if the technology isn't mass produced by the time the Reapers get here, you still have the Collector's homeworld which implies that the homeworld would be enough to produce all the armaments that the Collectors utilize.

Also; nothing quite breeds innovation than war.

If anything the reapers can control the base from afar if need be, just like they did with Grayson. That line of thinking makes it a better safe than sorry decision for paragon. Especially if you take the possible consequences of giving it to Cerberus in mind.

That is a risk, but I believe it's manageable simply because the Reapers couldn't have anticipated that people could find and remove a functioning Reaper IFF from a Reaper corpse. The Collector Base itself wasn't actually a Reaper as well.

I see your points, however I find that taking a risk with the base being safe would add to the gamble you take as a renegade. Therefore I'd say the gamble still stays quite the same. I'd like to also point out that the Reaper IFF had a reaper virus on it which in turn almost overpowered the SR2, why would there have been a reaper virus on it if they never expected it to be taken?

[Arijharn]

Zavox wrote...
I see your points, however I find that taking a risk with the base being safe would add to the gamble you take as a renegade. Therefore I'd say the gamble still stays quite the same.

While I agree that there is an element of a gamble in my decision, we're talking about complete and utter extinction on the other side of the coin. And not just for Humanity. My mind honestly boggles at that because it's exactly what it seems, it's final.

The gamble being is that you have a far better chance at mitigating any threats because of the existence of the Collector base (knowledge of Collector weapon systems, knowledge of the 'Reaper framework', X-factor (which in this case I'd consider that a blessing) because you essentially have the freedom to study it at leisure rather than the rather knee-jerk reaction of ordering it's immediate destruction.

Honestly, I would have thought it would be incredibly stupid for Shephard not to even have the option of saving it, because at the end of the day Shephard is a mid-senior military officer. I don't think his job is necessarily PR in so much as it's his job to win, and any option to keep the base due to the knowledge it could provide is better than any piecemeal knowledge it could provide if it was destroyed, because anything delicate but useful would obviously be destroyed in an explosion.

Usually I can see a modicum of sense in paragon decisions, primarily because I play as one (although, honestly I usually find out I'm paragade -- if only because I think playing max either one way to be terribly unrealistic as I doubt anyone is Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil in real life, and they themselves I doubt would see them as such either)... but I can not see a benefit from destroying the base other than making a fair amount of unsafe assumptions of its capabilities or over-estimating the scale of threat that Cerberus represents (that's not to say that they aren't a threat, but the threat they pose is insignificant when compared to the Reapers; and you can take steps to prevent any Cerberus activity after you deal with the Reapers; namely because the threat that Cerberus represents wont matter if the Reapers win -- because everyone is dead.)

I'd like to also point out that the Reaper IFF had a reaper virus on it which in turn almost overpowered the SR2, why would there have been a reaper virus on it if they never expected it to be taken?

True, but at the end of the day the Reaper IFF allowed passage through the O4 gate. The Reaper IFF's transmission codes should have been blocked out after it's destruction in the first place otherwise, because what's the alternative? They purposely allowed it to remain active because in at least 100,000 years time a new species about to be harvested (in some manner) is going to reverse engineer it, duplicate it, place it on their cutting edge warship and attack one of the Reaper's proxies that's centered in the most inhospitable location in the galaxy, it's core?

I mean, that's just plain absurd isn't it?

[lovgreno]

Arijharn wrote...

Zavox wrote...
I see your points, however I find that taking a risk with the base being safe would add to the gamble you take as a renegade. Therefore I'd say the gamble still stays quite the same.

While I agree that there is an element of a gamble in my decision, we're talking about complete and utter extinction on the other side of the coin. And not just for Humanity. My mind honestly boggles at that because it's exactly what it seems, it's final.

The gamble being is that you have a far better chance at mitigating any threats because of the existence of the Collector base (knowledge of Collector weapon systems, knowledge of the 'Reaper framework', X-factor (which in this case I'd consider that a blessing) because you essentially have the freedom to study it at leisure rather than the rather knee-jerk reaction of ordering it's immediate destruction.

The thing is that keeping the base can also mean final extinction for everyone.  There is no way you can guarantee that Harbringer can not assume controll again over his base (with Cerberus as a bonus this time) and start up the reaper production again, wich would probably turn the conflict into the reapers favour. Those reapers are sneaky like that you know.
So yes, a blown up base may have contained some usefull clues about how reapers works and can be defeated, but it can just as well have contained nothing good. What we do know however is that the exploded base wont make anymore reapers, wich is the last thing Shepard and the galaxy needs at the moment.

[Meshakhad2]

I'll need...



A Widow... check

Joker and EDI flying the Normandy... check

The Quarian Migrant Fleet... check

Wrex and his krogan army... check

The geth... check

The armies of the rachni... check

The Alliance... already on site



That should do to start. I'll see if I can't round up the turians, salarians, and asari. Also, I'll buy up every damn merc contract in the galaxy.

[Zavox]

Arijharn wrote...

While I agree that there is an element of a gamble in my decision, we're talking about complete and utter extinction on the other side of the coin. And not just for Humanity. My mind honestly boggles at that because it's exactly what it seems, it's final.

The gamble being is that you have a far better chance at mitigating any threats because of the existence of the Collector base (knowledge of Collector weapon systems, knowledge of the 'Reaper framework', X-factor (which in this case I'd consider that a blessing) because you essentially have the freedom to study it at leisure rather than the rather knee-jerk reaction of ordering it's immediate destruction.

Honestly, I would have thought it would be incredibly stupid for Shephard not to even have the option of saving it, because at the end of the day Shephard is a mid-senior military officer. I don't think his job is necessarily PR in so much as it's his job to win, and any option to keep the base due to the knowledge it could provide is better than any piecemeal knowledge it could provide if it was destroyed, because anything delicate but useful would obviously be destroyed in an explosion.

Usually I can see a modicum of sense in paragon decisions, primarily because I play as one (although, honestly I usually find out I'm paragade -- if only because I think playing max either one way to be terribly unrealistic as I doubt anyone is Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil in real life, and they themselves I doubt would see them as such either)... but I can not see a benefit from destroying the base other than making a fair amount of unsafe assumptions of its capabilities or over-estimating the scale of threat that Cerberus represents (that's not to say that they aren't a threat, but the threat they pose is insignificant when compared to the Reapers; and you can take steps to prevent any Cerberus activity after you deal with the Reapers; namely because the threat that Cerberus represents wont matter if the Reapers win -- because everyone is dead.)

I think our assessment of the situation differs a bit, I do not see the hopeful chance to find some holy grail technology that would give humanity a fighting chance as reason enough to neglect the dangers keeping the base may pose. It's like researching the atomic bomb without safety protocols, hopeful to reach the bomb before the destruction of your country but in the process destroying it or giving it less of a fighting chance. Besides, the reapers are so far ahead of current galaxy technology that any advanced technology the collector base will give us will first of all only be on par with the reapers and secondly it has to be implemented and mass produced to be effective, which would take years... which we don't have. So even though it may give a better fighting chance, it will in all honesty not be a holy grail in time, therefore I do not find it worth the risks and will look for other options. I do not like grasping at straws. But as I've said before, this may just be a matter of different views.

True, but at the end of the day the Reaper IFF allowed passage through the O4 gate. The Reaper IFF's transmission codes should have been blocked out after it's destruction in the first place otherwise, because what's the alternative? They purposely allowed it to remain active because in at least 100,000 years time a new species about to be harvested (in some manner) is going to reverse engineer it, duplicate it, place it on their cutting edge warship and attack one of the Reaper's proxies that's centered in the most inhospitable location in the galaxy, it's core?

I mean, that's just plain absurd isn't it?

Who said each reaper has different reaper IFF transmission codes? For all we know they all have the same and they did not find the hassle of changing it on all reapers and mass relays worth the trouble, instead they, in their arrogance, thought the reaper virus and defenses at the collector base would be enough of a fail-safe. The current galaxy is past the normal expected harvest date, thus we can assume our technology is more advanced than the reapers anticipated. This could have been the reason why the Normandy was able to overcome the reaper virus and the defenses at the collector base.

But yes, the hypothetical situation you posed is plain absurd, yet it just isn't the only hypothetical situation.

Also, that certain reaper had been billions of years old, there have been hundreds of harvestings since and no race seems to have found it prudent to get the reaper IFF. The fact there have been hundreds of harvestings without reverse engineering that reaper IFF they could've thought it logical that it wouldn't happen. (Statiscal probability would've been quite low after so much harvestings). Even the collector base may have been  built way later than the death of that certain reaper for all we know.

Modifié par Zavox, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:01 .

[Jagri]

lovgreno wrote...

The thing is that keeping the base can also mean final extinction for everyone.  There is no way you can guarantee that Harbringer can not assume controll again over his base (with Cerberus as a bonus this time) and start up the reaper production again, wich would probably turn the conflict into the reapers favour. Those reapers are sneaky like that you know.

So yes, a blown up base may have contained some usefull clues about how reapers works and can be defeated, but it can just as well have contained nothing good. What we do know however is that the exploded base wont make anymore reapers, wich is the last thing Shepard and the galaxy needs at the moment.

Given the recent trailer the Reapers are in a position to take back the Collectors Base physically from Cerberus if they couldn't do so remotely before. The station retaken and now the Reapers can send the humans they may be capturing straight to the smoothie maker to increase their ranks.

Beginning to wonder how many Reapers they could make with 9 million humans...

Where as if the base was destroyed perhaps Paragon Shepard is given a chance to save these people cause they are being held on board a Reaper "Harvestor" to be saved for when they can rebuild a installation to process more Reapers.

Modifié par Jagri, 13 décembre 2010 - 12:52 .

[Arijharn]

lovgreno wrote...
The thing is that keeping the base can also mean final extinction for everyone.  There is no way you can guarantee that Harbringer can not assume controll again over his base (with Cerberus as a bonus this time) and start up the reaper production again, wich would probably turn the conflict into the reapers favour. Those reapers are sneaky like that you know.

I don't think that view is supported by the game itself tbh though, because otherwise if the Reapers could possess the base itself, then why bother with the Collector General? The components used to make the CB was undoubtedly advanced given the technology disparity between galactic standard and the Collector's, but there's a bit of a difference I believe between that and making the assumption that all Collector Base materials can be possessed at will by the Reapers.

True, I can't rule out your hypothesis, but I don't believe it's a credible threat... and more to the point I view the situation as desperate enough to disregard anyway due to the stakes involved.

I can't be sure that the CB will provide that 'holy grail,' but I am more sure that with it's survival that it can provide one if there is one there. It doesn't even have to be working technology really, even if it just gives credence to a thought to tackle the situation from another angle. On the basis of things, the survival of the base would give a higher chance to find such a 'grail' and would provide a centralised location to find it as opposed to potentially shifting through the wreckage of the CB (providing there is much to sift through; also considering that it's in the middle of a ship graveyard).

So yes, a blown up base may have contained some usefull clues about how reapers works and can be defeated, but it can just as well have contained nothing good. What we do know however is that the exploded base wont make anymore reapers, wich is the last thing Shepard and the galaxy needs at the moment.

True it won't make any more Reapers, but I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't make any more Reapers after the fact anyway due to the fact that it's completely unattainable for Cerberus to do so even if they wished it, and frankly, I think the mere idea that they would wish it to be preposterous. 

[Zavox]

Arijharn wrote...

I don't think that view is supported by the game itself tbh though, because otherwise if the Reapers could possess the base itself, then why bother with the Collector General?

We've already touched upon the subject of why there's a possible need for a Collector General as opposed to direct control of the facility even if they can do it. Namely the following:

Zavox wrote...
I said that Harbinger
would have to control the station 24/7 to operate it (constructing the reaper). He would not have to control the collector general 24/7 because they are capable of operating on themselves and thus the station. It's in light of the drain a more logical choice.

Jagri wrote...
Put it more simply its being stated that Harbinger can choose to control the Collector's Base at anytime whenever he desires. When the Reapers were sleeping in dark space the Collector General would watch over operations. I am guessing with the death of Sovereign it drew Harbingers attentions to the Collector Base to assume control and find out as much as he can about these "humans" who were messing with their plans.

Furthermore I think Jagri stated something along the lines of the Collector General working as a buffer between Harbinger and a drone. If the possessed drone dies, Harbinger shields should fail just the same as what happened to Sovereign and Saren. Which is a massive drain on the systems and therefore this could be a work around.

Arijharn wrote...
The components used to make the CB was undoubtedly advanced given the technology disparity between galactic standard and the Collector's, but there's a bit of a difference I believe between that and making the assumption that all Collector Base materials can be possessed at will by the Reapers.

Also touched upon already:

Zavox wrote...
If anything it's easier to control machines than human bodies, so I don't really see your point. It might very well be draining on the reapers to do so though. Which in turn would explain the Collector General.

Zavox wrote...
It's even said in Mass Effect 1 as far as I can remember. That Saren isn't entirely machinized because of it's ability to function/perform and think (to a certain extent) on it's own. Whenever he gets entirely machinized they lose that ability and they need to be fully controled by the reapers.

Furthermore, in the last battle you fight against a completely machinized Saren. Which is, because of the entire control (and thus drain of power) Sovereign has to exert over 'Metal Saren', the reason for the shield failure.

Besides, even with 21st century technology we can remotely control machines... don't tell me the reapers are incapable of such things... . They made/designed the base themselves no less.

Arijharn wrote...

True it won't make any more Reapers, but I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't make any more Reapers after the fact anyway due to the fact that it's completely unattainable for Cerberus to do so even if they wished it, and frankly, I think the mere idea that they would wish it to be preposterous.

Doesn't stop the reapers from overpowering Cerberus and the station and start producing new reapers from the humans of earth as Jagri just a moment ago suggested.

Modifié par Zavox, 13 décembre 2010 - 12:52 .

[Vaenier]

Zavox wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

When that which you don't understand has a history of screwing things up? Yeah I'd blow it up first ask questions later.

Did you kill the Rachni too?

It's not the same premise Vaenier, you had the chance to talk to the Rachni and then consider your options. Besides it's only one queen and that doesn't pose much of a galactic threat that a reaper base in Cerberus hands can do. Oh, and you're actively committing genocide, I don't think destroying that base equals to that.

You killed a fetus that was just peacefully napping, minding its own business. You just have to barge in shooting up the place, blowing up several parts of it till it fell down. You didnt even say you were sorry to it for making it fall down. And on top of all that, you have the nerve to kill said fetus when it defends itself from the 3 guys trying to kill it.

How do you sleep at night?

It was only hostile after you attacked it. Remember that.

[Zavox]

Vaenier wrote...

Zavox wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

When that which you don't understand has a history of screwing things up? Yeah I'd blow it up first ask questions later.

Did you kill the Rachni too?

It's not the same premise Vaenier, you had the chance to talk to the Rachni and then consider your options. Besides it's only one queen and that doesn't pose much of a galactic threat that a reaper base in Cerberus hands can do. Oh, and you're actively committing genocide, I don't think destroying that base equals to that.

You killed a fetus that was just peacefully napping, minding its own business. You just have to barge in shooting up the place, blowing up several parts of it till it fell down. You didnt even say you were sorry to it for making it fall down. And on top of all that, you have the nerve to kill said fetus when it defends itself from the 3 guys trying to kill it.

How do you sleep at night?

It was only hostile after you attacked it. Remember that.

Hahahaha, oh man that was a good one.
Guess I'm just a ruthless murderer of fetusses eh?

Modifié par Zavox, 13 décembre 2010 - 01:15 .

[Vaenier]

Zavox wrote...

Hahahaha, oh man that was a good one.
Guess I'm just a ruthless murderer of fetusses eh?

But really, who is to say that the Reaper was not made up of the millions of human minds used to create it? All it did was defend itself, like how i would expect a bunch of scared confused colonists to react. I dont see why shep had to kill it right then and there. He should have just cleared the base like normal, the Fetus wasnt going anywhere. And I think mostly everyone agrees that was such a bad boss.

[Zavox]

Vaenier wrote...



But really, who is to say that the Reaper was not made up of the millions of human minds used to create it? All it did was defend itself, like how i would expect a bunch of scared confused colonists to react. I dont see why shep had to kill it right then and there. He should have just cleared the base like normal, the Fetus wasnt going anywhere. And I think mostly everyone agrees that was such a bad boss.

Well... if you wait a bit he will fire upon you first...  Lets just pretend that I wait for him to fire shall we? 
Plus, the game mechanics forced me to kill him if I didn't want to spend the rest of my life on that base babysitting over a fetus.

Bad boss is bad, can't agree more.

[Inverness Moon]

Zavox wrote...

I see your points, however I find that taking a risk with the base being safe would add to the gamble you take as a renegade. Therefore I'd say the gamble still stays quite the same. I'd like to also point out that the Reaper IFF had a reaper virus on it which in turn almost overpowered the SR2, why would there have been a reaper virus on it if they never expected it to be taken?

Because, unlike the collector base, the reapers seem to load themselves up with a crew so they can indoctrinate them and transport them around the galaxy to use for whatever purpose. That means they would need internal defenses for anyone that has yet to be indoctrinated or might somehow break their hold.

lovgreno wrote...

The thing is that keeping the base can also mean final extinction for everyone.  There is no way you can guarantee that Harbringer can not assume controll again over his base (with Cerberus as a bonus this time) and start up the reaper production again, wich would probably turn the conflict into the reapers favour. Those reapers are sneaky like that you know.
So yes, a blown up base may have contained some usefull clues about how reapers works and can be defeated, but it can just as well have contained nothing good. What we do know however is that the exploded base wont make anymore reapers, wich is the last thing Shepard and the galaxy needs at the moment.

That does not make sense. First of all, reaper production takes time and lots of lives. If they started it up again they would have to go around abducting people again. The collectors were planning to abduct millions upon millions of humans, perhaps even billions, in order to create a single reaper. In a galaxy aware of the reapers, they would be hard pressed to do that. You seem to be implying that they could just pump out a new reaper every week or something at a significant enough rate to make a difference in the war.

So anyhow, I completely dismiss the idea that the base will be used to make more reapers.

Zavox wrote...

I think our assessment of the situation differs a bit, I do not see the hopeful chance to find some holy grail technology that would give humanity a fighting chance as reason enough to neglect the dangers keeping the base may pose. It's like researching the atomic bomb without safety protocols, hopeful to reach the bomb before the destruction of your country but in the process destroying it or giving it less of a fighting chance. Besides, the reapers are so far ahead of current galaxy technology that any advanced technology the collector base will give us will first of all only be on par with the reapers and secondly it has to be implemented and mass produced to be effective, which would take years... which we don't have. So even though it may give a better fighting chance, it will in all honesty not be a holy grail in time, therefore I do not find it worth the risks and will look for other options. I do not like grasping at straws. But as I've said before, this may just be a matter of different views.

You say you don't like grasping at straws, but that is exactly what you're doing by assuming that other options exist when you decide destroy the collector base. That is exactly what everyone does when they destroy the base, they assume there is another option without evidence.

This is why I always scoff at the choice to destroy the base and the way people try to justify it. Every excuse for it is built on the assumption that there is another way.

You can't afford to be picky about what route you take to destroy the reapers.

[Jagri]

Double post sorry!

Modifié par Jagri, 13 décembre 2010 - 03:53 .

[Jagri]

That does not make sense. First of all, reaper production takes time and lots of lives. If they started it up again they would have to go around abducting people again. The collectors were planning to abduct millions upon millions of humans, perhaps even billions, in order to create a single reaper. In a galaxy aware of the reapers, they would be hard pressed to do that. You seem to be implying that they could just pump out a new reaper every week or something at a significant enough rate to make a difference in the war.

So anyhow, I completely dismiss the idea that the base will be used to make more reapers.

That seems very short sighted given the goals established by Harbinger in general. Humans have proven to be successful material in producing more Reapers and the current invasion of earth through the trailer supports that goal. If the Reapers were intent on simply ending us as a threat all life on earth could have been ended within a matter of minutes. For them to take a week to kill 9 million people seems a bit lacking... If not for the fact they are collecting both dead and living human begins in order to process them as Husks or send back to the Collector Base in order to further continue production of the human reaper(s).

People must remember the Reapers need humanity. They suffered during the last cycle with the Protheans because their genetic material wasn't capable of supporting the construction of  new reapers. Likely the reason why the Collectors exsist so they could report which races the Reapers should harvest and with their base help process them.

While production time and materials need to produce a Reaper can be debated the evidence suggests they are harvesting us and the Collector Base is the center of that operation(or was at least during the events of Mass Effect 2). If destroy it would be logical to assume a Reaper Harvestor would exsist to store living and dead humans in order to use them in the future when another base is constructed.

Modifié par Jagri, 13 décembre 2010 - 04:02 .

[OmegaXI]

If the collector base could give cerberus and Shepard the means to:



1) take down the reaper sheilds

2) find a away to stop indoctrination or prevent

3) Reaper weapons and weakness



Then keep it, I understand people being untrusting of cerberus but remember The normandy can just as easyly go back through the Omega relay to finish the job if need be. Or Shepard can just do a coup-de-ta of cereberus.



But I kept the base because of what I could get from it in the war ahead, and I feel it is one of those times when the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. But all in all it is a moral delima aswell as a military delima.



What I'm wondering is what would people who hate the idea of cerberus getting the base would have chosen if it was the multi-speacies coucil or the Turian coucil member contacting you at the end instead of TIM? Would you still destroy the base or would you hand it over?