650 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

I am hoping to use Cerberus to begin the research untill I can find more compitant group to use. Any advances they get I will share with the Citadel forces as allies. The entire alliance of citadel species will grow stronger from Cerberus's work. Humans would be seen as great friends and ensure their equality. hell, even Tim would respect that gain, even if it aint turning aliens into slaves.

Just because I saved the base, does not mean I want human dominance, Bioware better get that through their thick heads. One has nothing to do with the other, and its stupid to think that. I saved the base to save lives, and if all I get from it is human dominance, I will return your pathetic game.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The reason why I don't give him the base is because I know that he'll use aliens as test subjects in horrible experiments (Like he's doing right now) and once the Citadel finds out what he's doing and find out that we are the ones that gave him the tech that did it than our relationship will be destroyed and they won't trust us and if they don't trust us than they won't do anything that we ask.



I've always seen the desicion simply as whatever good may come out of the base will be vastly outweighed by the rest of the galaxy seeing us as some kind of Hitler trying to make humanity gods over the other races. I don't care what he finds it won't be worth the trade off of having all of the Citadel on our sides trusting us when the Reapers show up.

[Vaenier]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The reason why I don't give him the base is because I know that he'll use aliens as test subjects in horrible experiments (Like he's doing right now) and once the Citadel finds out what he's doing and find out that we are the ones that gave him the tech that did it than our relationship will be destroyed and they won't trust us and if they don't trust us than they won't do anything that we ask.

I've always seen the desicion simply as whatever good may come out of the base will be vastly outweighed by the rest of the galaxy seeing us as some kind of Hitler trying to make humanity gods over the other races. I don't care what he finds it won't be worth the trade off of having all of the Citadel on our sides trusting us when the Reapers show up.

Well, I want to keep an eye on him. I want to have oversight of his project. He knows I know where the base is, its not like he could hide it from me. Maybe he will let me run the research project. I already have extensive safety protocols in place. I am sure he would not want to lose such a valuable asset like he has in the past from incompitant team leaders.

[Thompson family]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...


That's a bit of a weak defense. EDI's free so if there was any 'control chip' in the ship than she'd be able to stop it, as for the crew Miranda was the biggest pro-Cerberus person on the ship and she told TIM to go to hell so the rest of the crew would do the same.

EDI wasn't free when the IFF was found, worked with, installed and started transmitting, ISpeakTheTruth. Miranda was also loyally Cerberus, although that loyalty began to crack when she found out the Collector ship was a trap and TIM knew it.

Also, note the lack of "Keep the base and the secret of how to get there to yourself" option, which I found interesting and significant.

Even if TIM was sent a copy and got ships in there what is he going to do take it from Shepard? Shepard just got done putting his/her boot up the Collector's arses if TIM thinks that he has anything or anyone that could match Shepard than I'd love to see him sending in people to die.

Fair enough — unless there's a way to go to the Collector base and change the required IFF signal. Also, keep in mind that it's not the base alone but the technology that TIM wants so badly. The base can be replicated. Even on a much smaller scale it would be dangerous.

Collector Base = Star Forge from KotOR. Nobody can safely use it.

And once the Citadel has the info they'd send a fleet to guard the Relay and that would be the end of that.

One way or the other, and not necessarily a good way.

I know people give the Citadel alot of crap for their inaction but that inaction is good 99% of the time it insures galaxtic peace. If given the tech and the indisputable proof of Reapers and their coming invasion than they'd mobilize and get ready then the galaxy would be entirly prepared.

It's not the Council's inaction, but its remarkable capacity for denial that I find alarming.

Citadel getting the base> Base being destroyed > TIM gets the base

I respectfully disagree: Nobody gets the Sentient Being-melting deathcamp, or base>Shepard getting the base>Citadel getting the base> Tim getting the base

[Vaenier]

It makes me sad to see people destroy technology simply for their lack of understanding and moral objections.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I tend to not believe that the evil madman smile he had on his face after Shepard's transmision cuts out leads me to think he's going to do thing behind your back. LIke the tests he's been runing on the Asari and I think a few Turians which ended up killing them. Something tells me he didn't tell Shepard about that. The problem is that ME3 will be set a few years in the future so its not going to be too hard to see the most likely scenario where TIM has done horrible things behind Shepard's back and then what he has done gets revealed.



Remember how badly the Citadel reacted simply because Shepard was working with Cerberus? Having him continue working with them for years isn't going to help and then BAM TIM's secrets come out.



Another possitive thing about destroying the base is that you are no longer working with Cerberus and thats going to be a huge plus when it comes to Shepard/Citadel relations.

[Vaenier]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I tend to not believe that the evil madman smile he had on his face after Shepard's transmision cuts out leads me to think he's going to do thing behind your back. LIke the tests he's been runing on the Asari and I think a few Turians which ended up killing them. Something tells me he didn't tell Shepard about that. The problem is that ME3 will be set a few years in the future so its not going to be too hard to see the most likely scenario where TIM has done horrible things behind Shepard's back and then what he has done gets revealed.

Remember how badly the Citadel reacted simply because Shepard was working with Cerberus? Having him continue working with them for years isn't going to help and then BAM TIM's secrets come out.

Another possitive thing about destroying the base is that you are no longer working with Cerberus and thats going to be a huge plus when it comes to Shepard/Citadel relations.

This is a problem, the only way to quit Cerberus is to blow up a cahce of advanced technology that could be given to anybody? I find this really dumb, and hope I am not the only one who feels so railroaded here.

So maybe just give the base right to the citadel, or start your own private research group. get the geth studying it, they would be great at figuring it out. I dont really care who you get studying it and getting technology for the citadel fleet from it. just blowing it up because you dont like tim is stupid. dont railroad this bioware. there is too much opertunity here to waste with a flip of a coin.

That technology will save lives. I just have to pry it out of Biowares claws first...

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Thompson family wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...


That's a bit of a weak defense. EDI's free so if there was any 'control chip' in the ship than she'd be able to stop it, as for the crew Miranda was the biggest pro-Cerberus person on the ship and she told TIM to go to hell so the rest of the crew would do the same.

EDI wasn't free when the IFF was found, worked with, installed and started transmitting, ISpeakTheTruth. Miranda was also loyally Cerberus, although that loyalty began to crack when she found out the Collector ship was a trap and TIM knew it.

Also, note the lack of "Keep the base and the secret of how to get there to yourself" option, which I found interesting and significant.

Maybe I'm not understanding your point. My point is that TIM has no one on the Normandy that is going to be on his side and he has no ablity to take control of the ship so that makes him powerless. Like I said the lack of 'Keep the base and the secret of how to get there to yourself' was left out because it would make too many variables for the team to account for.

Even if TIM was sent a copy and got ships in there what is he going to do take it from Shepard? Shepard just got done putting his/her boot up the Collector's arses if TIM thinks that he has anything or anyone that could match Shepard than I'd love to see him sending in people to die.

Fair enough — unless there's a way to go to the Collector base and change the required IFF signal. Also, keep in mind that it's not the base alone but the technology that TIM wants so badly. The base can be replicated. Even on a much smaller scale it would be dangerous.

Collector Base = Star Forge from KotOR. Nobody can safely use it.

If there's a way of changing the IFF signal than that's something that Shepard/Tali/or Legion would be able to do because they now control the ship not TIM. Shepard would be holding all the cards. As for replicating the base... How would TIM be able to replicate the base when Shepard has it? Like I said TIM would have to fight Shepard to get to the base and he doesn't have anything that can beat Shepard.

And once the Citadel has the info they'd send a fleet to guard the Relay and that would be the end of that.

One way or the other, and not necessarily a good way.

That's fair enough, the Tech could be used against us when the Reapers arrive and the Citadel might rely too much on it.

I know people give the Citadel alot of crap for their inaction but that inaction is good 99% of the time it insures galaxtic peace. If given the tech and the indisputable proof of Reapers and their coming invasion than they'd mobilize and get ready then the galaxy would be entirly prepared.

It's not the Council's inaction, but its remarkable capacity for denial that I find alarming.

Look at it from their point of view, the only 'proof' Shepard had was Soverign and he was blown into a billion pieces so there was no memory chip or anything that they could scan. The computer that told the story of the Reapers was shut down so no proof there. It would be like someone saying "OMG Marcians are coming to put us in pods!!!" without proof no government would take that person seriously if the only proof they have is something that could easily be explained away.

Citadel getting the base> Base being destroyed > TIM gets the base

I respectfully disagree: Nobody gets the Sentient Being-melting deathcamp, or base>Shepard getting the base>Citadel getting the base> Tim getting the base

That is fair.

[Sajuro]

Vaenier wrote...

It makes me sad to see people destroy technology simply for their lack of understanding and moral objections.

I know, how horrible is it to destroy a giant floating deathcamp that melts people down to goo simply because it might have something to help us, oh and you'd have to give it to a maniacal human supremist otherwise.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Vaenier wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I tend to not believe that the evil madman smile he had on his face after Shepard's transmision cuts out leads me to think he's going to do thing behind your back. LIke the tests he's been runing on the Asari and I think a few Turians which ended up killing them. Something tells me he didn't tell Shepard about that. The problem is that ME3 will be set a few years in the future so its not going to be too hard to see the most likely scenario where TIM has done horrible things behind Shepard's back and then what he has done gets revealed.

Remember how badly the Citadel reacted simply because Shepard was working with Cerberus? Having him continue working with them for years isn't going to help and then BAM TIM's secrets come out.

Another possitive thing about destroying the base is that you are no longer working with Cerberus and thats going to be a huge plus when it comes to Shepard/Citadel relations.

This is a problem, the only way to quit Cerberus is to blow up a cahce of advanced technology that could be given to anybody? I find this really dumb, and hope I am not the only one who feels so railroaded here.

So maybe just give the base right to the citadel, or start your own private research group. get the geth studying it, they would be great at figuring it out. I dont really care who you get studying it and getting technology for the citadel fleet from it. just blowing it up because you dont like tim is stupid. dont railroad this bioware. there is too much opertunity here to waste with a flip of a coin.

That technology will save lives. I just have to pry it out of Biowares claws first...

Amen, All I've ever wanted was some other option. Heck an option of just camping the Normandy on the Collector ship so Mordin alone can study it would be a more valid choice than either giving it to TIM or destroying it. Shepard held all the keys and its frustrating that Shepard had a 'NO must blow it up" or a "Yes I'll give the base to the TIM because I can trust him to do the right thing"

[Vaenier]

Sajuro wrote...

oh and you'd have to give it to a maniacal human supremist otherwise.

That is a problem that I hope Bioware fixes. In a game about choices, they are giving us very little.

Modifié par Vaenier, 17 décembre 2010 - 01:32 .

[Jagri]

"Shepard did you give Cerberus access to the very space station in which millions of colonist were killed and thus allowed them to continue if not look into the very research that made this possiable?"

Now thats a question that would turn the galaxy against Shepard... No amount of explaining would clean that imagin from the publics mind ether.

Modifié par Jagri, 17 décembre 2010 - 01:40 .

[Vaenier]

Jagri wrote...

"Shepard did you give Cerberus access to the very space station in which millions of colonist were killed and thus allowed them to continue if not look into the very research that made this possiable?"

Now thats a question that would turn the galaxy against Shepard... No amount of explaining would clean that imagin from the publics mind ether.

"No, I simply did not destroy the base because of its past. I put emotions aside and kept the base so that its secrets could be studied for the entire galaxy. This technology will save many lives in the upcoming war against its creators. Cerberus has helped gain this technology to share with the galaxy. They present this base to the Citadel as a gift from humans so that all races may benifit."

Modifié par Vaenier, 17 décembre 2010 - 01:51 .

[Jagri]

Vaenier wrote...

Jagri wrote...

"Shepard did you give Cerberus access to the very space station in which millions of colonist were killed and thus allowed them to continue if not look into the very research that made this possiable?"

Now thats a question that would turn the galaxy against Shepard... No amount of explaining would clean that imagin from the publics mind ether.

"No, I simply did not destroy the base because of its past. I put emotions aside and kept the base so that its secrets could be studied for the entire galaxy. This technology will save many lives in the upcoming war against its creators. Cerberus has helped gain this technology to share with the galaxy. They present this base to the Citadel as a gift from humans so that all races may benifit."

"So you admit that genoside is a acceptable when the technology it yields can supposely save lives. That giving this technology to a terrorist organization is right?" 

*Media cuts off* There you have it folks Shepard supports genocide and terrorist organzations.

How the media works at least

Modifié par Jagri, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:03 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I agree with Jagri, all they have to hear is that Shepard turned tech over to a terrorist orginization then Cerberus kidnapped people, tortured and killed them in experiments involving the tech Shepard gave them and that will be the end of the discusion. Fair or not no amount of tech is going to make them ever trust Shep again.

Modifié par ISpeakTheTruth, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:05 .

[Vaenier]

Jagri wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Jagri wrote...

"Shepard did you give Cerberus access to the very space station in which millions of colonist were killed and thus allowed them to continue if not look into the very research that made this possiable?"

Now thats a question that would turn the galaxy against Shepard... No amount of explaining would clean that imagin from the publics mind ether.

"No, I simply did not destroy the base because of its past. I put emotions aside and kept the base so that its secrets could be studied for the entire galaxy. This technology will save many lives in the upcoming war against its creators. Cerberus has helped gain this technology to share with the galaxy. They present this base to the Citadel as a gift from humans so that all races may benifit."

"So you admit that genoside is a acceptable when the technology it yields can supposely save lives. That giving this technology to a terrorist organization is right?" 

*Media cuts off* There you have it folks Shepard supports genocide and terrorist organzations.

How the media works at least

Is that why Shep punches all reporters she sees? It makes alot of sense now.

Also, I never gave it to cerberus. I used their resources to acquire it. then i let them guard it.

The Council wouldnt cut you off atleast, they would listen, and accept the free technology. They are a quite reasonable group if you have evidence and gifts. Plus I saved their lives.

Modifié par Vaenier, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:12 .

[Jagri]

Vaenier wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Jagri wrote...

"Shepard did you give Cerberus access to the very space station in which millions of colonist were killed and thus allowed them to continue if not look into the very research that made this possiable?"

Now thats a question that would turn the galaxy against Shepard... No amount of explaining would clean that imagin from the publics mind ether.

"No, I simply did not destroy the base because of its past. I put emotions aside and kept the base so that its secrets could be studied for the entire galaxy. This technology will save many lives in the upcoming war against its creators. Cerberus has helped gain this technology to share with the galaxy. They present this base to the Citadel as a gift from humans so that all races may benifit."

"So you admit that genoside is a acceptable when the technology it yields can supposely save lives. That giving this technology to a terrorist organization is right?" 

*Media cuts off* There you have it folks Shepard supports genocide and terrorist organzations.

How the media works at least

Is that why Shep punches all reporters she sees? It makes alot of sense now.

Also, I never gave it to cerberus. I used their resources to acquire it. then i let them guard it.

The Council wouldnt cut you off atleast, they would listen, and accept the free technology. They are a quite reasonable group if you have evidence and gifts. Plus I saved their lives.

I believe they would cut Shepard off at that point... No longer a hero and considerd a monster for helping Cerberus aquire a station that was responsable for the killing of millions of colonist. Why its location wasn't reported to the Council or Alliance. 

[Vaenier]

Jagri wrote...

I believe they would cut Shepard off at that point... No longer a hero and considerd a monster for helping Cerberus aquire a station that was responsable for the killing of millions of colonist. Why its location wasn't reported to the Council or Alliance. 

I am trying to give them a damn base full of reaper tech and asking for nothing in return... I feel this conversation is very one sided.

Modifié par Vaenier, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:23 .

[Jagri]

Vaenier wrote...

Jagri wrote...

I believe they would cut Shepard off at that point... No longer a hero and considerd a monster for helping Cerberus aquire a station that was responsable for the killing of millions of colonist. Why its location wasn't reported to the Council or Alliance. 

I am trying to give them a damn base full of reaper tech and asking for nothing in return... I feel this conversation is very one sided.

Thats assuming Cerberus would let you give that technology to them...

[TuringPoint]

Vaenier wrote...

It makes me sad to see people destroy technology simply for their lack of understanding and moral objections.

Me too.  Although I always destroy the base, because it is a weapon of the Reapers.  

I think the Council is ridiculous, from Shepard's perspective, and I don't expressly care what they think of me for keeping or destroying the base.  If their responses in ME1 would carry to ME3,  they would find something to criticize either way.
  

Modifié par Alocormin, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:27 .

[Vaenier]

Jagri wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Jagri wrote...

I believe they would cut Shepard off at that point... No longer a hero and considerd a monster for helping Cerberus aquire a station that was responsable for the killing of millions of colonist. Why its location wasn't reported to the Council or Alliance. 

I am trying to give them a damn base full of reaper tech and asking for nothing in return... I feel this conversation is very one sided.

Thats assuming Cerberus would let you give that technology to them...

What the hell will they do to stop me? If they had any cards to play, they would have used them to stop people from blowing it up in the first place. They should just accept the good PR and increased rep for humans and move on.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

That's just it though when it was just Shepard and his team left TIM had no cards but the last thing we see from TIM is a couple of his ships coming in to claim the prize. After a few years it would be in the realm of possibilities that TIM may have hid the best Tech and findings for himself and only show Shepard the scraps. Remember Shepard left that base and practically said "OK its yours... just be nice."



I've seen nothing from TIM that makes me believe that he'd be willing to give his best stuff away like that.

[Vaenier]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

That's just it though when it was just Shepard and his team left TIM had no cards but the last thing we see from TIM is a couple of his ships coming in to claim the prize. After a few years it would be in the realm of possibilities that TIM may have hid the best Tech and findings for himself and only show Shepard the scraps. Remember Shepard left that base and practically said "OK its yours... just be nice."

I've seen nothing from TIM that makes me believe that he'd be willing to give his best stuff away like that.

Why do we have to wait several years? did Shep die again? damnit, that guy is useless.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Pretty much, its like when ME1 ended he's all "I'm going to stop the Reapers!!!!" Then when ME2 starts he's... looking for some stragling Geth?



He'll give the base to TIM and then in ME3 be like "Well I havn't seen the base since I beat the Collectors whats going on?....OMG you've been kidnapping people!!"



Useless lol

[Inverness Moon]

Knoll Argonar wrote...

I think it's risky. You don't.

That is not true.

Jagri wrote...

Again this seems very short sighted. The Reapers are potentially millions of years more advance in technology. So their capabilities can be consider "magic" in the eyes of even the most brilliant of minds in the Mass Effect universe. To rule out the possiability is what lead to Cerberus many failures.

I dismiss that whole notion that the reaper's age automatically makes their technology beyond our comprehension.

How much time have they spent hibernating in dark space? When have they ever needed to advance their technology in order to meet a new threat?

No matter what you say, hacking by nature is not magic. If the reapers could do something that was beyond hacking, such as physically controlling the atoms in a computer somehow (magic), then the prothean's safety measure that forced Sovereign and Saren to try to open the Citadel relay manually wouldn't have worked. You have nothing to support your claim that reapers can do anything like that.

Jagri wrote...

Rachni without their queen are drones and couldn't possiable escape a containment cell... You know how that worked out.

That example is completely inapplicable for reasons explained next.

Jagri wrote...

A dead Reaper couldn't possiably still have the capability to indoctrinate us right?

I wouldn't make that assumption without knowing how indoctrination worked. And apparently the reaper wasn't dead enough to fall into the brown dwarf it was orbiting.

So here is a question, how much do you think Cerberus knew about indoctrination when they set up shop on the derelict reaper?

Jagri wrote...

They said ships have been unsinkable... Vaults unbreakable... Computer system unhackable but time and time again it has been shown when there is a will there is a way. I give Cerberus credit however they had the will and drive to bring Shepard back to life when he was in a condition that everyone here would dismiss as dead and beyond help.

Sorry, but your sayings and examples are not appropriate. You can't hack a computer wirelessly, like with an omnitool, unless that computer has a wireless port open. What you're saying is akin to claiming that you could hack a computer through a wired connection after I just cut it with some scissors.

Quantum entanglement communication cannot be intercepted. And the design that was specified for a bomb would use that to communicate with the detonator. It could not be hacked without a physical connection, and any attempt at a physical connection would detonate it.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:49 .