104 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

Indeed, Mass Effect has always been an RPG, of that there's never been any doubt. I still lol at the fact people contest that it's an RPG. Sure, the elements aren't as strong as FF or TES, but they're still there. Those elements are all you need to be an RPG.

[Matchy Pointy]

I'm one of those rare people on here (well, not so rare, but not as vocal) that loves both the shooting and roleplaying mechanisms of ME2, and well, I've never quite understood the people claiming it's not a RPG, but it's their right to think so (and preferably both sides will be civil).

[SithLordExarKun]

royceclemens wrote...

Indeed. Intelligent, constructive criticism is one thing. Telling someone how to do their job is another. Acting like an entitled, know-it-all tool is only going to get you ignored.

I agree. Its true that ME2 does have many flaws that can be improved on. But the "decent, sensible and mature" community for the most part is telling bioware how to do their jobs with their know-it-all attitude thats getting them ignored. Then they get angry at bioware for not interacting with them like they do in the DA forums.

[AdmiralCheez]

Matchy Pointy wrote...

I'm one of those rare people on here (well, not so rare, but not as vocal) that loves both the shooting and roleplaying mechanisms of ME2, and well, I've never quite understood the people claiming it's not a RPG, but it's their right to think so (and preferably both sides will be civil).

I actually like both aspects as well, since I hate pure RPGs about as much as I hate most shooters.  I credit Mass Effect for not only being (arguably) the most awesome series ever, but the one that eased me into both genres as well.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:34 .

[llinsane1ll]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...
I think it's one of the best games. Listen to the community (the decent mature sensible community) on how to make a better RPG game.

You mean the "decent mature sensible" community with elitist attitudes towards anybody  who enjoys ME2 or shooters in general? the "decent mature sensible" community that goes "wow, ME2 sucks balls big time and bioware are morons" community?

Really, why should bioware listen to these people? If these people think they know what makes a great game, jollywell go be a game developer then.

I personally loved the Mako. Some people hated it. Take either side? Depends. What did the people who liked it, like about it? What did the people who didn't like it, not like about it? Try and see if there is a formula that can make something work. Now... try that with a lot of things.

And you talk like BioWare survives by creating the game entirely on their own likes and dislikes. How did you think Mass Effect 2 was improved from Mass Effect 1? Because they listened to what the community liked and dislikes. Don't try to act as if BioWare completely makes the game themselves without and help from feedback. And stop using the... OH WELL IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE MAKE A GAME YOURSELF... lame excuse. People love a franchise and only want it to be better by submitting feedback. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

[Praetor Knight]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Trolls deserve to either be ignored or beaten into submission with superior logic, evidence, grace, and technique.  Calling one an idiot immediately knocks you down to his level.

Besides, he wasn't trolling; he was commenting on how a lot of people are under the impression that the only feedback that Bioware should listen to is their own.  Kind of like how the RPG-purists think that Bioware should pay no attention to the more action-oriented crowd, and the actionheads want Bioware to ignore the RPGers.

Agreed, otherwise I also like to provide information, play Devil's Adovcate, or make a joke (even an obscure joke ).


Edit: spelling...

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:39 .

[AdmiralCheez]

llinsane1ll wrote...

I personally loved the Mako. Some people hated it. Take either side? Depends. What did the people who liked it, like about it? What did the people who didn't like it, not like about it? Try and see if there is a formula that can make something work. Now... try that with a lot of things.

See here?  You're doing it right.

And you talk like BioWare survives by creating the game entirely on their own likes and dislikes. How did you think Mass Effect 2 was improved from Mass Effect 1? Because they listened to what the community liked and dislikes.

Still doing okay, but you're slipping.

Don't try to act as if BioWare completely makes the game themselves without and help from feedback. And stop using the... OH WELL IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE MAKE A GAME YOURSELF... lame excuse. People love a franchise and only want it to be better by submitting feedback. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

And then you lost it.

[llinsane1ll]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...

I personally loved the Mako. Some people hated it. Take either side? Depends. What did the people who liked it, like about it? What did the people who didn't like it, not like about it? Try and see if there is a formula that can make something work. Now... try that with a lot of things.

See here?  You're doing it right.

And you talk like BioWare survives by creating the game entirely on their own likes and dislikes. How did you think Mass Effect 2 was improved from Mass Effect 1? Because they listened to what the community liked and dislikes.

Still doing okay, but you're slipping.

Don't try to act as if BioWare completely makes the game themselves without and help from feedback. And stop using the... OH WELL IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE MAKE A GAME YOURSELF... lame excuse. People love a franchise and only want it to be better by submitting feedback. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

And then you lost it.

Explain the last 2 because it seems you're just saying that to make what I said completely invalid.

[Matchy Pointy]

llinsane1ll wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...
I think it's one of the best games. Listen to the community (the decent mature sensible community) on how to make a better RPG game.

You mean the "decent mature sensible" community with elitist attitudes towards anybody  who enjoys ME2 or shooters in general? the "decent mature sensible" community that goes "wow, ME2 sucks balls big time and bioware are morons" community?

Really, why should bioware listen to these people? If these people think they know what makes a great game, jollywell go be a game developer then.

I personally loved the Mako. Some people hated it. Take either side? Depends. What did the people who liked it, like about it? What did the people who didn't like it, not like about it? Try and see if there is a formula that can make something work. Now... try that with a lot of things.

And you talk like BioWare survives by creating the game entirely on their own likes and dislikes. How did you think Mass Effect 2 was improved from Mass Effect 1? Because they listened to what the community liked and dislikes. Don't try to act as if BioWare completely makes the game themselves without and help from feedback. And stop using the... OH WELL IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE MAKE A GAME YOURSELF... lame excuse. People love a franchise and only want it to be better by submitting feedback. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

Loved the Mako, though I didn't wuite love all the planets you explored with it as they all seemed to blend togheter

[xentar]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Seconded. Keep it unique. Not that DA:O and ME2 weren't good, but no need to make the same game twice.

Haven't they been doing this for the last 12 years or so?

[SithLordExarKun]

llinsane1ll wrote...



And you talk like BioWare survives by creating the game entirely on their own likes and dislikes. How did you think Mass Effect 2 was improved from Mass Effect 1?

That depends if you "consider it an improvement". I do consider it for an improvement, but not the "decent, sensible and mature" community doesn't considering they relentlessly bash the game for 11 months.

They did listen at the feedback, but they didn't listen to all the feedback. Did the fans ask them to remove some of the RPG elements? Did the fans ask them to remove the inventory? remove squad armor? No. Don't get me wrong, i think ME2 is superior to ME1 in my opinion.

But the 'feedback' they got for ME1 on how to improve it for ME2 was a million times more sensible and civilized. The 'feedback' that bioware has been getting in these forums since ME2's release has been hostile and more of a telling them how to do their jobs thing rather than actually being constructive.

Go browse the "dissapointment " or "ME3 with deeper RPG elements" threads.

llinsane1ll wrote...
Because they listened to what the community liked and dislikes. Don't try to act as if BioWare completely makes the game themselves without and help from feedback. And stop using the...

See the above. They DO listen to fans when they are civilized, not when they act like a spoilt brat like most of the ME2 haters are currently.

llinsane1ll wrote...
OH WELL IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE MAKE A GAME YOURSELF... lame excuse.

  Excuse for what? The reason i say this is due to their attitudes, they were telling bioware how to do their jobs, they were lurking the forums and looking for an opportunity to attack the developers and tell them what a true RPG is and how they screwed up the game and at the same time tell them how to do their jobs.

With this kind of disgusting behaviour, people will obviously tell them 'if you know so much go make the game then'.

llinsane1ll wrote...
People love a franchise and only want it to be better by submitting feedback. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

I love how you talk about being "sensible and mature" yet you call me ignorant and talk to me in a hostile manner. You are an utter hypocrite.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:48 .

[AdmiralCheez]

llinsane1ll wrote...

Explain the last 2 because it seems you're just saying that to make what I said completely invalid.

I'm not trying to attack or invalidate you.  I'm showing you the parts in your posts where you slipped into troll-mode.  I agree with your points 100%, but you could articulate yourself a little better.  Allow me to explain:

llinsane1ll wrote...

I personally loved the Mako. Some
people hated it. Take either side? Depends. What did the people who
liked it, like about it? What did the people who didn't like it, not
like about it? Try and see if there is a formula that can make something
work. Now... try that with a lot of things.

See here?  You're doing it right.  Very polite, very thoughtful, very non-combative.

And
you talk like BioWare survives by creating the game entirely on their
own likes and dislikes. How did you think Mass Effect 2 was improved
from Mass Effect 1? Because they listened to what the community liked
and dislikes.

Still doing okay, but you're slipping.  This bit would have been fine if you hadn't put words in the other guy's mouth (see bold).

Don't
try to act as if BioWare completely makes the game themselves without
and help from feedback. And stop using the...
OH WELL IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE MAKE A GAME YOURSELF...
lame excuse. People love a franchise and only want it to be better by
submitting feedback. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

And then you lost it.  You sunk into insults again (see bold) and belittled the other guy's opinion (see italics).  This last bit here is pure attack-troll-rage.  Don't be so defensive when people disagree with you.  They aren't out to get you; they just don't agree with you.

Just doing my part to make the forums a better place

[AdmiralCheez]

xentar wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Seconded. Keep it unique. Not that DA:O and ME2 weren't good, but no need to make the same game twice.

Haven't they been doing this for the last 12 years or so?

Sssshh!  I'm trying to delude myself!

[Rheinguard]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Remind you all that petty bickering will get threads closed and people banned.

Mass Effect 2 IS an RPG. (Character customization, choice and level up, alignment, choice, etc). YOU may not think so. YOU (not you, the other you) may think so. Get over it.

Lol dude Chris Priestly just pwnt and burned all you QQers. 

[llinsane1ll]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...



And you talk like BioWare survives by creating the game entirely on their own likes and dislikes. How did you think Mass Effect 2 was improved from Mass Effect 1?

That depends if you "consider it an improvement". I do consider it for an improvement, but not the "decent, sensible and mature" community doesn't considering they relentlessly bash the game for 11 months.

They did listen at the feedback, but they didn't listen to all the feedback. Did the fans ask them to remove some of the RPG elements? Did the fans ask them to remove the inventory? remove squad armor? No. Don't get me wrong, i think ME2 is superior to ME1 in my opinion.

But the 'feedback' they got for ME1 on how to improve it for ME2 was a million times more sensible and civilized. The 'feedback' that bioware has been getting in these forums since ME2's release has been hostile and more of a telling them how to do their jobs thing rather than actually being constructive.

Go browse the "dissapointment " or "ME3 with deeper RPG elements" threads.

llinsane1ll wrote...
Because they listened to what the community liked and dislikes. Don't try to act as if BioWare completely makes the game themselves without and help from feedback. And stop using the...

See the above. They DO listen to fans when they are civilized, not when they act like a spoilt brat like most of the ME2 haters are currently.

llinsane1ll wrote...
OH WELL IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE MAKE A GAME YOURSELF... lame excuse.

  Excuse for what? The reason i say this is due to their attitudes, they were telling bioware how to do their jobs, they were lurking the forums and looking for an opportunity to attack the developers and tell them what a true RPG is and how they screwed up the game and at the same time tell them how to do their jobs.

With this kind of disgusting behaviour, people will obviously tell them 'if you know so much go make the game then'.

llinsane1ll wrote...
People love a franchise and only want it to be better by submitting feedback. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

I love how you talk about being "sensible and mature" yet you call me ignorant and talk to me in a hostile manner. You are an utter hypocrite.

You're making it seem like the people who give feedback are '****s' and are the majority of people only giving feedback. Don't include everyone who gives feedback in the same category as those trolls who rage on, on how to make a game. Are there people who come here and directly try and tell them how to make a game? Yea, but there are people who are really trying to leave feedback because they want to help BioWare out by constantly improving their franchises. And I'm not talking to you in a 'hostile' way. I'm just upset you're trying to make it seem like I was saying something else.

[SithLordExarKun]

llinsane1ll wrote...



You're making it seem like the people who give feedback are '****s' and are the majority of people only giving feedback.

It may seem that way because the "mature, sensible and civilized" people you're referring to are the ones nerdraging and being hostile to everyone else that likes the game along with the fact that they are the most vocal.

In fact the ones who DO give constructive critisicm are very much less vocal and has already voiced their feedback(myself incuded, i do give feedback to).

llinsane1ll wrote...
Don't include everyone who gives feedback in the same category as those trolls who rage on, on how to make a game. Are there people who come here and directly try and tell them how to make a game? Yea, but there are people who are really trying to leave feedback because they want to help BioWare out by constantly improving their franchises. And I'm not talking to you in a 'hostile' way. I'm just upset you're trying to make it seem like I was saying something else.

Yes there ARE people giving good feedback, but they are buried beneth the nerdraging posts of a lot of the very vocal minority posters here.

[llinsane1ll]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...

Explain the last 2 because it seems you're just saying that to make what I said completely invalid.

I'm not trying to attack or invalidate you.  I'm showing you the parts in your posts where you slipped into troll-mode.  I agree with your points 100%, but you could articulate yourself a little better.  Allow me to explain:

llinsane1ll wrote...

I personally loved the Mako. Some
people hated it. Take either side? Depends. What did the people who
liked it, like about it? What did the people who didn't like it, not
like about it? Try and see if there is a formula that can make something
work. Now... try that with a lot of things.

See here?  You're doing it right.  Very polite, very thoughtful, very non-combative.

And
you talk like BioWare survives by creating the game entirely on their
own likes and dislikes. How did you think Mass Effect 2 was improved
from Mass Effect 1? Because they listened to what the community liked
and dislikes.

Still doing okay, but you're slipping.  This bit would have been fine if you hadn't put words in the other guy's mouth (see bold).

Don't
try to act as if BioWare completely makes the game themselves without
and help from feedback. And stop using the...
OH WELL IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW HOW THE GAME SHOULD BE MAKE A GAME YOURSELF...
lame excuse. People love a franchise and only want it to be better by
submitting feedback. Keep your ignorance to yourself.

And then you lost it.  You sunk into insults again (see bold) and belittled the other guy's opinion (see italics).  This last bit here is pure attack-troll-rage.  Don't be so defensive when people disagree with you.  They aren't out to get you; they just don't agree with you.

Just doing my part to make the forums a better place

I don't see how I 'lost' it by saying for him to keep his ignorance to himself. No one should exclude other's views, regardless if it's mature feedback on likes and dislikes. All I'm saying is... a company shouldn't just keep making a game they see fit... listen to your fans on their different views.

Look @ Square Enix... From what I hear... they almost NEVER listen to their fans. That sure as hell showed in Final Fantasy XIII. See why I'm saying for companies to listen to their fans on likes and dislikes?

[AdmiralCheez]

llinsane1ll wrote...

I don't see how I 'lost' it by saying for him to keep his ignorance to himself. No one should exclude other's views, regardless if it's mature feedback on likes and dislikes. All I'm saying is... a company shouldn't just keep making a game they see fit... listen to your fans on their different views.

And I agree that listening to the fans is important (hell, that's why I love Bioware), but calling someone ignorant just makes you sound like a jerk.  You'll notice that he clarified in his next post and said that mature, even-tempered critics do exist, but they are buried beneath thread after thread of nerd rage.  As one of those even-tempered critics myself, I know what he means.

Look @ Square Enix... From what I hear... they almost NEVER listen to their fans. That sure as hell showed in Final Fantasy XIII. See why I'm saying for companies to listen to their fans on likes and dislikes?

I never liked Square Enix that much...

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 12 décembre 2010 - 09:07 .

[Ahriman]

SaulTighsEyePatch wrote...

Stolen from repenterx from gamespot:

Planet 1 - Asari conscripted!

Planet 2 - Turians conscripted!

Planet 3 - Freed the Drell, Hanar destroyed, Drell conscripted in their stead!

Planet 4 - Random group that doesn't make any sense conscripted!

Final chapter - Big group assault!

BioWare 101 complete.

Sad, but it will be so.
"...if Shepard doesn't bring help soon..."
Why Bioware? Why? *sigh* Anyway I'll make preorder and you knew it.

Insert Major Cutscene - Shepard is actually 11/10 Reaper!

Fixed for badassity.
Heh, I can accept it easily.

[llinsane1ll]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...



You're making it seem like the people who give feedback are '****s' and are the majority of people only giving feedback.

It may seem that way because the "mature, sensible and civilized" people you're referring to are the ones nerdraging and being hostile to everyone else that likes the game along with the fact that they are the most vocal.

In fact the ones who DO give constructive critisicm are very much less vocal and has already voiced their feedback(myself incuded, i do give feedback to).

llinsane1ll wrote...
Don't include everyone who gives feedback in the same category as those trolls who rage on, on how to make a game. Are there people who come here and directly try and tell them how to make a game? Yea, but there are people who are really trying to leave feedback because they want to help BioWare out by constantly improving their franchises. And I'm not talking to you in a 'hostile' way. I'm just upset you're trying to make it seem like I was saying something else.

Yes there ARE people giving good feedback, but they are buried beneth the nerdraging posts of a lot of the very vocal minority posters here.

See what I mean? You're saying the 'mature sensible' people ARE the nerdraging 'fans'. That's EXACTLY what I'm upset about. You make it seem COMPLETELY as if NO ONE is 'mature and sensibe' that's NOT nerdraging.

***My caps on the words are not me trying to yell, but point out key words***

I have made threads very constructive. Some of my polls are actually known.

http://social.biowar...433/polls/4328/

http://social.biowar...433/polls/3614/

Those are to show who likes what and who doesn't like what. Therefore BioWare can take a look and see how they can try and create formulas that would be better implemented into their games.

[LogosDiablo]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...

You're an idiot. What does decent mature sensible community have to do with agreeing with you? It can be from either sides, that have valid, well constructed ideas/arguments who don't rage in a pathetic way. Get your stuff straight before you try and troll me.

I love how you say "you're an idiot," and then talk about being decent, sensible, and mature.

But I agree with listening to non-ragey folks on both sides.  Just... lolling at the inherent irony of your own words.

Dude, grats on using 'irony' correctly. Too few do, these days.

Modifié par LogosDiablo, 12 décembre 2010 - 09:08 .

[llinsane1ll]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...

I don't see how I 'lost' it by saying for him to keep his ignorance to himself. No one should exclude other's views, regardless if it's mature feedback on likes and dislikes. All I'm saying is... a company shouldn't just keep making a game they see fit... listen to your fans on their different views.

And I agree that listening to the fans is important (hell, that's why I love Bioware), but calling someone ignorant just makes you sound like a jerk.  You'll notice that he clarified in his next post and said that mature, even-tempered critics do exist, but they are buried beneath thread after thread of nerd rage.  As one of those even-tempered critics myself, I know what he means.

Look @ Square Enix... From what I hear... they almost NEVER listen to their fans. That sure as hell showed in Final Fantasy XIII. See why I'm saying for companies to listen to their fans on likes and dislikes?

I never liked Square Enix that much...

I know he cleared it up, and I agree 100% with him, but how he 1st started his 'argument' is what I'm overall upset how he said it. But after he cleared it up, I understand him better. I'm just trying to point out that being a 'jerk' is not the best way to make it seem like HE wasn't. And why I said don't be ignorant, not because I don't agree with him, I'm saying because he shouldn't think he's right. That's why there are feedback. Look at everyone's point of view instead of your own.

I don't know much about them, but all I know is they've become pretty terrible @ making games lately, and just slap their fans in the face by not listening and pretty much telling them off.

[llinsane1ll]

LogosDiablo wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...

You're an idiot. What does decent mature sensible community have to do with agreeing with you? It can be from either sides, that have valid, well constructed ideas/arguments who don't rage in a pathetic way. Get your stuff straight before you try and troll me.

I love how you say "you're an idiot," and then talk about being decent, sensible, and mature.

But I agree with listening to non-ragey folks on both sides.  Just... lolling at the inherent irony of your own words.

Dude, grats on using 'irony' correctly. Too few do, these days.

Maybe you should keep reading the post and see where it's been turning out...

[Matchy Pointy]

llinsane1ll wrote...

Look @ Square Enix... From what I hear... they almost NEVER listen to their fans. That sure as hell showed in Final Fantasy XIII. See why I'm saying for companies to listen to their fans on likes and dislikes?

I actually quite liked Final Fantasy XIII...

[AdmiralCheez]

@LogosDiablo: Really? Thanks, bro.

@||insane1||: I understand completely, but let's not throw around words like "ignorant" and "idiot" like confetti on New Years, mmkay?