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[hecksard]

Weskerr wrote...

hecksard wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

The Council did an excellent job of covering it up.

Sure,
but we can at least assume there's been a general mobilization on
Earth, and Ben does mention communication with other cities and
obviously has knowledge of Shepard, so how come he doesn't have even
basic intelligence about the nature of the enemy?

It's peculiar
that Bioware would present the game at this stage as Earth threatened by
unknown squiddies from the void catching everyone unawares.  I mean, he
could have said something along the lines of "Damn, he was right. We
should have listened to Shepard. And now here they are: the Reapers."

I
think Oneelifecrisis makes a good point. "Big Ben" should think to
himself that this invasion force of ships is Geth, since the Council
claimed that Sovereign was a Geth ship. However, I don't think anyone,
besides Shepard, his crew, the Council, (and possibly the Quarians),
knows anything about the Reapers or has ever even heard of them. That's
why I think the Council did an excellent job at covering the truth up.

In many ways, the whole premise of ME2 was dealing with the consequences of such a cackhanded cover-up, and all the different parties that become involved in preparing for the real Reaper threat.  We know that Alliance command knows about them (even if only as a discredited theory).  We know that Cerberus knows about them, with its extensive links inside the Alliance, and think of all the recent recruits to Cerberus from the Alliance after the Battle of the Citadel.  Many hands seem to have been involved in, for example, experimenting with Reaper technology to the point of being able to use it against them, and now everyone appears to know about the Collectors.  It seems inconceivable that this knowledge wouldn't have been spread widely a week into the attack when the earth itself is at stake.

Modifié par hecksard, 12 décembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[onelifecrisis]

<deleted>

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 12 décembre 2010 - 03:46 .

[Weskerr]

hecksard wrote...


In many ways, the whole premise of ME2 was dealing with the consequences of such a cackhanded cover-up, and all the different parties that become involved in preparing for the real Reaper threat.  We know that Alliance command knows about them (even if only as a discredited theory).  We know that Cerberus knows about them, with its extensive links inside the Alliance, and think of all the recent recruits to Cerberus from the Alliance after the Battle of the Citadel.  Many hands seem to have been involved in, for example, experimenting with Reaper technology to the point of being able to use it against them, and now everyone appears to know about the Collectors.  It seems inconceivable that this knowledge wouldn't have been spread widely a week into the attack when the earth itself is at stake.

It's also inconceivable that Shepard and the Alliance fleet haven't responded to the attacks until at least a week into the invasion. It could even be longer than a week because "Big Ben" says "7 million dead the first week." There are definitely many things we don't know about the situation. Maybe the Reapers cut all communications to and from Earth. It's possible that Earth was cut off from the rest of the Galaxy, and that Shepard was sent there personally to see what was going on (thus the shot of him viewing earth from a window).There are too many things that the trailer doesn't reveal for anyone to say anything for certain.

[klossen4]

maybe reapers cut communication somehow or it is kept top secret by the alliance

[Zulu_DFA]

Weskerr wrote...

I
think Oneelifecrisis makes a good point. "Big Ben" should think to
himself that this invasion force of ships is Geth, since the Council
claimed that Sovereign was a Geth ship. However, I don't think anyone,
besides Shepard, his crew, the Council, (and possibly the Quarians),
knows anything about the Reapers or has ever even heard of them. That's
why I think the Council did an excellent job at covering the truth up.

Even if the guy had ever been interested in watching news and seen the footage of the "Geth Flagship", after a week of the invasion he had to realize that it's not the Geth.

[Luigitornado]

onelifecrisis wrote...

hecksard wrote...



Why doesn't Big Benjamin know these things? It's puzzling. A week into the attack, and despite all Shepard's efforts over the last years, still there's no general understanding of what this threat actually is, not even that they're called the Reapers? What might this mean for the ME3 plot line?

It's just more bad writing. My advice: sit back and enjoy the explosions.

It was to my understanding that Council and probably Alliance propaganda, said Sovereign was Geth vessel.



Well from our Sniper's point of view: Now there are hundreds of the "vessels" walking and invading our planet. I'd be confused aswell...the absence of a Geth force (possibly) would not help my inductive reasoning either.

[Luigitornado]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

I
think Oneelifecrisis makes a good point. "Big Ben" should think to
himself that this invasion force of ships is Geth, since the Council
claimed that Sovereign was a Geth ship. However, I don't think anyone,
besides Shepard, his crew, the Council, (and possibly the Quarians),
knows anything about the Reapers or has ever even heard of them. That's
why I think the Council did an excellent job at covering the truth up.

Even if the guy had ever been interested in watching news and seen the footage of the "Geth Flagship", after a week of the invasion he had to realize that it's not the Geth.

Well I guess that is not the case, so it must have not been as obvious. Plus those little Geth ships looked remarkably like Sovereign. Good propaganda and misdirection from a government can fool anyone.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 12 décembre 2010 - 03:20 .

[Vaenier]

Sniper could not say Geth because everyone would be confused. What he says in the trailer is supposed to be fact, to inform prospective players. If he flat out lied, even if from being mistaken, it would confuse so many people when they did pick up the game and find out they are allies with the Geth and are attacking the squids.

Citadel uses anti Reaper propaganda. It is super effective! Galaxy faints.

[onelifecrisis]

Vaenier wrote...

Sniper could not say Geth because everyone would be confused. What he says in the trailer is supposed to be fact, to inform prospective players. If he flat out lied, even if from being mistaken, it would confuse so many people when they did pick up the game and find out they are allies with the Geth and are attacking the squids.
Citadel uses anti Reaper propaganda. It is super effective! Galaxy faints.

Heaven forbid that a player should start playing a trilogy at the third installment and (gasp) be confused!

Seriously though, they could have made a trailer that doesn't confuse anyone. Instead, they made a trailer that confuses their existing players. This is known as incompetence.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 12 décembre 2010 - 03:40 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

hecksard wrote...

Why doesn't Big Benjamin know these things?

The Council did an excellent job of covering it up.

Riiight. So not one person on the Citadel had a camera-phone handy when Sovereign attacked.

So sure, they know a little bit. But only the higher ups do. Who's to say a sniper grunt gets to know anything about what the hell attacked the citadel? It's rumoured to be Geth. No one but Shepard's team and the Illusive Man know about the human Reaper, so... yeah. It's perfectly reasonable that some random soldier on the field will have no idea what the hell is going on. The reason he asks for Shepard to come save the say is obvious--
Shepard's the only human spectre.

[Marta Rio]

So like others have pointed out, I think Benny's statements make sense because of this line of reasoning:
(1) The Council told everyone that Sovereign was a Geth ship. In the first week or so of the attack, Benny would have assumed it was the Geth.
(2) As the attack continued, it would have been apparent that this isn't the Geth. There are probably husks, which people have seen associated with the Geth before, but no actual Geth. At this point, Benny's like WTF is going on?
(3) Lines of communication are severed. Reliable info from Cerberus/the Alliance/other people who know about the Reapers isn't readily available. Rumors abound, but no actual facts.

Eh, it makes logical sense to me.

Modifié par Marta Rio, 12 décembre 2010 - 04:00 .

[ArcanistLibram]

The lack of flashlight heads would quickly reveal that the geth are not involved. Besides, sticking information in the trailer that players know to be completely false would be a terrible idea.

[Weskerr]

Marta Rio wrote...

So like others have pointed out, I think Benny's statements make sense because of this line of reasoning:
(1) The Council told everyone that Sovereign was a Geth ship. In the first week or so of the attack, Benny would have assumed it was the Geth.
(2) As the attack continued, it would have been apparent that this isn't the Geth. There are probably husks, which people have seen associated with the Geth before, but no actual Geth. At this point, Benny's like WTF is going on?
(3) Lines of communication are severed. Reliable info from Cerberus/the Alliance/other people who know about the Reapers isn't readily available. Rumors abound, but no actual facts.

Eh, it makes logical sense to me.

Even if communication wasn't severed, what good would information about the Reapers do for the defense of Earth. What the Earth needs is military reinforcement, but they have none for at least a week into the attack. Why? An explanation could be that the invasion of Earth isn't known to anyone outside of Earth, but for that to be the case, communication must have been severed between Earth and the rest of the galaxy.

So if this is true, how did the Reapers get to Earth without attracting any attention? They made a surprise attack on Earth it seems, but how? Also, are the Reapers only attacking Earth, or have they invaded other Races' homeworlds in the same way?

Modifié par Weskerr, 12 décembre 2010 - 04:34 .

[Luigitornado]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Sniper could not say Geth because everyone would be confused. What he says in the trailer is supposed to be fact, to inform prospective players. If he flat out lied, even if from being mistaken, it would confuse so many people when they did pick up the game and find out they are allies with the Geth and are attacking the squids.
Citadel uses anti Reaper propaganda. It is super effective! Galaxy faints.

Heaven forbid that a player should start playing a trilogy at the third installment and (gasp) be confused!

Seriously though, they could have made a trailer that doesn't confuse anyone. Instead, they made a trailer that confuses their existing players. This is known as incompetence.

You are only confused because you are over thinking it. A trailer is not suppose to hand players all the facts, and explain everything about the story thoroughly. Seriously? Get your head out of the gutter. You should be excited.

[Theoristitis]

onelifecrisis wrote...
Seriously though, they could have made a trailer that doesn't confuse anyone. Instead, they made a trailer that confuses their existing players. This is known as incompetence.

The point of a teaser is to tease. In this case, I look at it as a shoutout to us who are waiting, a reminder from Bioware that ME3 is not only in progress but is nearing completion.
Existing players, from what I've seen in the hours since, are confusing themselves by attempting to draw conclusions from a minute-long clip of combat. There's nothing very confusing about Reapers killing organics or about Shepard having to stop them. As for Earth's involvement as a Reaper target, we know the crustaceans are gonna show up eventually, and we know that humanity has been the face of Reaper destruction since 2183. Nothing confusing there either. When people overthink a teaser, they are going to be confused. Remember the ME2 teaser and the people who thought Shepard was now a geth (yes, they existed, in DROVES)?

[onelifecrisis]

Luigitornado wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Sniper could not say Geth because everyone would be confused. What he says in the trailer is supposed to be fact, to inform prospective players. If he flat out lied, even if from being mistaken, it would confuse so many people when they did pick up the game and find out they are allies with the Geth and are attacking the squids.
Citadel uses anti Reaper propaganda. It is super effective! Galaxy faints.

Heaven forbid that a player should start playing a trilogy at the third installment and (gasp) be confused!

Seriously though, they could have made a trailer that doesn't confuse anyone. Instead, they made a trailer that confuses their existing players. This is known as incompetence.

You are only confused because you are over thinking it. A trailer is not suppose to hand players all the facts, and explain everything about the story thoroughly. Seriously? Get your head out of the gutter. You should be excited.

I am excited. But you'd have to have an IQ of 50 for this to be considered "overthinking". The first time I heard that line "we don't know who they are" it immediately jumped out at me as nonsensical (like so many lines in the ME games, I'm sorry to say). After a week of fighting, Benny or his superiors would have to have some theory or story. After all, he's clearly in communication with someone about what's going on, and he would have seen these Reapers before because Sovereign would have been all over the news just 2 years earlier. He'd have to think they were either Geth or Reapers or something, depending on which of the various contradictory ME plot lines you chose to take as "the one".

Nevertheless, the trailer was exciting and shows a return to the main plot, so yes I'm excited. Just not so much that I feel the need to defend all the flaws in everything made by BW.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 12 décembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

hecksard wrote...

Why doesn't Big Benjamin know these things?

The Council did an excellent job of covering it up.

Riiight. So not one person on the Citadel had a camera-phone handy when Sovereign attacked.

The Council publicly claimed that Sovereign was a Geth ship.

In which case the guy in the trailer would be saying "it's the Geth".

The infantry and gunships would be geth then. It is clear the gunships are of unknown identity and the infantry might be husks seeing how only a shady figure was seen mindlessly chasing a civilian.

[Lvl20DM]

Yeah, the teaser is meant to set up the basic theme of the game, and it is composed to be dramatic and eye-catching. Don't assume much of anything from the teaser - it is a dramatic announcement of the 3rd game, and an effective one at that.



The specifics of the game are what we are interested in, but we probably won't see anything like that for 6 months or so. I'm more interested in learning about gameplay than plot, because I like the story to be fresh when I finally get to play it.

[Vaenier]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

The infantry and gunships would be geth then. It is clear the gunships are of unknown identity and the infantry might be husks seeing how only a shady figure was seen mindlessly chasing a civilian.

Gunships are human resistance most likely

[StarcloudSWG]

Something to be aware of: What's shown in the trailers may not actually appear that way in the game. As witness: Grunt and the Thresher Maw, the assault on the Collector Ship...

[onelifecrisis]

ME2 intro: Officially the Council blame the invasion on the Geth.
So, the public story is that Sovereign was a Geth ship? This seems reinforced by Shepard's later meeting with the Council. However...

TIM: "The Alliance suffered significant losses fighting Sovereign. They're rebuilding, still stretched too thin to waste resources verifying the Reaper threat."
So the Alliance know that there is a Reaper threat, but is this a quietly kept secret at the top? Not really...

Ken: "After you died, the Alliance brass tore apart everything you'd said. I was very public with my defense for you."

So a lowly Engineer knew Shepard's Reaper story and believed it in spite of the attempted Alliance Brass cover-up. It seems Shepard's side of the story was not very secret.

Ken/Gabby: "After you died, the Council backslid on the Reaper menace. They discounted Sovereign as an isolated threat."

Here we have yet another version of events, one in which the council don't claim Sovereign was a Geth ship, but rather that he was the only Reaper.

The bottom line here is that everyone has seen Sovereign and has some kind of theory on what it was. If Shepard's theories were as public as it seems then after a week of these things hitting Earth you'd think people would put two and two together and make four.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 12 décembre 2010 - 05:10 .

[hecksard]

onelifecrisis wrote...
The bottom line here is that everyone has seen Sovereign and has some kind of theory on what it was. If Shepard's theories were as public as it seems then after a week of these things hitting Earth you'd think people would put two and two together and make four.

Yes, exactly, you've hit the nail on the head. This is why I'm puzzled how others can think this trailer is "effective" or "dramatic" when it so patently ignores the actual gameworld we've come to know, as opposed to evoking a totally different one.

[TuringPoint]

The council kept the Reapers hush. An ordinary soldier, who is earth-bound, wouldn't know about them.

I don't remember anything that indicates the Reapers are common knowledge.  

Ken and Gabby were at the bloody battle of the citadel.  Those on planet Earth were not.  Making sense?

Modifié par Alocormin, 12 décembre 2010 - 05:45 .

[onelifecrisis]

Alocormin wrote...

The council kept the Reapers hush. An ordinary soldier, who is earth-bound, wouldn't know about them.

I don't remember anything that indicates the Reapers are common knowledge.  I don't think that was Bioware's intention to suggest.

Ken and Gabby were at the bloody battle of the citadel.  Those on planet Earth were not.  Making sense?

No, not making sense. They sell models of Sovereign at the Citadel. Methinks these wouldn't sell very well if nobody had seen it. As for Ken and Gabby being at the battle, so what? All that means is that they know that Sovereign attacked the Citadel, which everyone else knows too. It doesn't give them any extra insight into what Sovereign was. But Ken makes specific references to Shepard talking about a Reaper menace, and says he publicly defended that version of the events, none of which sounds very hush-hush to me.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 12 décembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Theoristitis]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I am excited. But you'd have to have an IQ of 50 for this to be considered "overthinking". The first time I heard that line "we don't know who they are" it immediately jumped out at me as nonsensical (like so many lines in the ME games, I'm sorry to say). After a week of fighting, Benny or his superiors would have to have some theory or story. After all, he's clearly in communication with someone about what's going on, and he would have seen these Reapers before because Sovereign would have been all over the news just 2 years earlier. He'd have to think they were either Geth or Reapers or something, depending on which of the various contradictory ME plot lines you chose to take as "the one".

"In the end, what does it matter? Your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them." - Vigil
Almost no one outside the Council and the top Alliance brass (which need not include anyone on Earth, mind) knows about the Reaper argument, and those don't even take it seriously as far as we know. The few that do, like Wrex and Legion and the Rachni - are they in a position to contact a special forces sniper stuck in Big Ben? Because this is a teaser, we don't know enough about ANYTHING. Perhaps the relays have already been cut, so communications are limited to within system. Or within planet. Perhaps Shepard's fight in ME3 is to reopen the relays so Earth can survive.
Does he have a theory? Maybe. But he says, "We don't know what they are, what they want, or where they came from." Theory = / = knowledge. Maybe he also saw Transformers and thinks they came out of the parking lot. Or saw War of the Worlds and thinks they came from Mars.
Maybe this guy will play a large role in ME3. Maybe he's just a commando whose sole purpose is to set the stage of the Reapers attacking Earth in the teaser trailer, in which case, why would he, or his superiors, or their superiors, or anyone on Earth, know anything?
If he theorizes, it may influence his decisions later on. He works within the situation - which, I might add, is pretty chaotic. I personally would be more concerned with the husk I just shot, the Reaper coming down above me, and the second pack of medigel I just injected into my busted leg.
Point being, it's a teaser. It's meant to titillate you with explosions and the vision of unfathomable beings of destruction descending from the sky.

Nevertheless, the trailer was exciting and shows a return to the main plot, so yes I'm excited. Just not so much that I feel the need to defend all the flaws in everything made by BW.

Well said, though.