121 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

The council line is that Sovereign was a Geth construct intended to provide a distinct advantage at the Battle of the Citadel. The majority of humans, even soldiers, would be inclined to believe this.

Any soldier would be at least semi-cognizant of the amount of time resources it would take for the construction of a dreadnought, and the reapers are much larger than any single ship in any Council fleet.

When thousands of ships the scale of Sovereign show up on Earth while the Geth Heretics as a whole have been largely wiped out, it's going to be pretty clear to any reasonably intelligent soldier that they weren't built by the Geth.

[Kasces]

It's really not that complicated.

The Council covered up, stating Sovereign was a Gaeth FLAGship.

Now all of a sudden, like a dozen flagships show up. No communications whatsoever. All major cities and little cities going through the same thing last he heard. Mutated forms of life aka husks who have been rampaging for who knows how long. ALL of London's -if not the Earth's- defenses annihilated, and no ACTUAL Geth insight.

It's a bit odd. Plus just because The Council, essentially the government, says one thing doesn't mean the public will believe it. Infact alot of people in real life express doubts over the official stories.The soldier could be one such person and regardless of even that, after at the LEAST a week of total pawnage I would start to think whatever threat this is, it's not the official story either.

Plus the fact this is a teaser so it did what it was suppose to...tease and throw us off, whether you kept up with the game or not. ME2's teaser did so, and none of the stuff in the ME1 "many deicisions lie ahead, none of them easy" video even happened.

Modifié par Kasces, 12 décembre 2010 - 06:38 .

[TuringPoint]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

The council kept the Reapers hush. An ordinary soldier, who is earth-bound, wouldn't know about them.

I don't remember anything that indicates the Reapers are common knowledge.  I don't think that was Bioware's intention to suggest.

Ken and Gabby were at the bloody battle of the citadel.  Those on planet Earth were not.  Making sense?

But Ken makes specific references to Shepard talking about a Reaper menace, and says he publicly defended that version of the events, none of which sounds very hush-hush to me.

Actually, it makes perfect sense.  How much do people pay attention to that sort of thing?  If people bought the line about Sovereign being a Geth ship, they would still be confused and simply struggling to survive when a hundred thousand Sovereign's showed up using - what?  Not Geth.  

Not that some people wouldn't figure it out.  But even if they thought, "Reapers"  that doesn't mean they know what a Reaper is.  They have certainly not been exposed to them directly themselves.  Not even Shepard really knows what they want, at least not at the end of ME1.  By the end of ME2 Shepard is only rumoured to be alive.

In fact, people don't take established facts seriously very frequently in real life, much less a fictional one where the facts are spelled out for the player.  

It would crash my suspension of disbelief and convince me Bioware had no spine if they had average, dummy Earth people knowing exactly what was happening.  Or if there was anything less than total information blackout when the Reapers hit.

Modifié par Alocormin, 12 décembre 2010 - 06:58 .

[Yojimbo_Ltd]

Alocormin wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

The council kept the Reapers hush. An ordinary soldier, who is earth-bound, wouldn't know about them.

I don't remember anything that indicates the Reapers are common knowledge.  I don't think that was Bioware's intention to suggest.

Ken and Gabby were at the bloody battle of the citadel.  Those on planet Earth were not.  Making sense?

But Ken makes specific references to Shepard talking about a Reaper menace, and says he publicly defended that version of the events, none of which sounds very hush-hush to me.

Actually, it makes perfect sense.  How much do people pay attention to that sort of thing?  If people bought the line about Sovereign being a Geth ship, they would still be confused and simply struggling to survive when a hundred thousand Sovereign's showed up using - what?  Not Geth.  

Not that some people wouldn't figure it out.  But even if they thought, "Reapers"  that doesn't mean they know what a Reaper is.  They have certainly not been exposed to them directly themselves.  Not even Shepard really knows what they want, at least not at the end of ME1.  By the end of ME2 Shepard is only rumoured to be alive.

In fact, people don't take established facts seriously very frequently in real life, much less a fictional one where the facts are spelled out for the player.  

It would crash my suspension of disbelief and convince me Bioware had no spine if they had average, dummy Earth people knowing exactly what was happening.  Or if there was anything less than total information blackout when the Reapers hit.

It just bad writing alocormin. If you have to think about it that much, then the story is not being told properly. Things need to be alluded to in the first act to be realized in the third act, and thing revealed in the third act, need to be introduced in the first. 

Its just a marketing ploy to attract new people. If the guy in the commercial was treating the audience like STAR Wars 2 did, (IE talking about things as if the audience should already know) they would alienate new people, hence less money.

[TuringPoint]

I didn't have to think about it at all, that's the thing. I'm just describing how I perceived it.  It's possible to perceive it that way without any thought whatsoever, so clearly it's not just bad storytelling.  The main plot of Mass Effect is the one part of the series that is consistently written very well.

Things being revealed in the first act *are* being realized in the third act. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

Sure, it's a marketing ploy. That's what trailers are - advertisements. This one is actually fairly well done.

Modifié par Alocormin, 12 décembre 2010 - 07:50 .

[onelifecrisis]

Alocormin wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

The council kept the Reapers hush. An ordinary soldier, who is earth-bound, wouldn't know about them.

I don't remember anything that indicates the Reapers are common knowledge.  I don't think that was Bioware's intention to suggest.

Ken and Gabby were at the bloody battle of the citadel.  Those on planet Earth were not.  Making sense?

But Ken makes specific references to Shepard talking about a Reaper menace, and says he publicly defended that version of the events, none of which sounds very hush-hush to me.

Actually, it makes perfect sense.  How much do people pay attention to that sort of thing?  If people bought the line about Sovereign being a Geth ship, they would still be confused and simply struggling to survive when a hundred thousand Sovereign's showed up using - what?  Not Geth.  

Not that some people wouldn't figure it out.  But even if they thought, "Reapers"  that doesn't mean they know what a Reaper is.  They have certainly not been exposed to them directly themselves.  Not even Shepard really knows what they want, at least not at the end of ME1.  By the end of ME2 Shepard is only rumoured to be alive.

In fact, people don't take established facts seriously very frequently in real life, much less a fictional one where the facts are spelled out for the player.  

It would crash my suspension of disbelief and convince me Bioware had no spine if they had average, dummy Earth people knowing exactly what was happening.  Or if there was anything less than total information blackout when the Reapers hit.

If your suspension of disbelief is still intact after ME2 then I'd say it's pretty much indestructible, which would explain the above post. It's basically the ramblings of a person who has their eyes closed, their fingers in their ears, and is chanting "LA LA LA LA LA". If people bought the line about Sovereign = Geth then 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 Geth. Surely this is not a complicated thing to grasp. On the other hand if they bought Shepard's line about Sovereign = Reaper (or if the Alliance simply came clean during the attack) then 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 Reapers. Again, it's rather simple.

What you will notice is that in neither scenario does 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 "I don't knows". In the face of such an attack everyone would be saying "these are the things that attacked the Citadel" not "oh, I wonder what these things are".

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 12 décembre 2010 - 07:50 .

[Dean_the_Young]

You're rather low on the list the last person who should accuse others of ramblings and not really listening to anything that disagrees.



Why don't you take a step back, take a nice, long, break, and come back when you're ready to see that you aren't even disputing what other people are saying?

[onelifecrisis]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You're rather low on the list the last person who should accuse others of ramblings and not really listening to anything that disagrees.

Why don't you take a step back, take a nice, long, break, and come back when you're ready to see that you aren't even disputing what other people are saying?

Yesss massster.

[Dean_the_Young]

Good. Now pseudo make me a sandwich.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

onelifecrisis wrote...

If your suspension of disbelief is still intact after ME2 then I'd say it's pretty much indestructible, which would explain the above post. It's basically the ramblings of a person who has their eyes closed, their fingers in their ears, and is chanting "LA LA LA LA LA". If people bought the line about Sovereign = Geth then 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 Geth. Surely this is not a complicated thing to grasp. On the other hand if they bought Shepard's line about Sovereign = Reaper (or if the Alliance simply came clean during the attack) then 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 Reapers. Again, it's rather simple.

What you will notice is that in neither scenario does 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 "I don't knows". In the face of such an attack everyone would be saying "these are the things that attacked the Citadel" not "oh, I wonder what these things are".

I think the whole should be percived this way.

Ben might just be a soldier who (like many others) have seen the news regarding the battle of the Citadel, since it must have been shown everywhere. And he like many others is led to believe the story about Sovereign being a geth ship and not as some troublemakers would want people to believe, a Reaper.

Cue to ME3. Ben is fighting in London, notices that there are no Geth groundforces at all. He then puts two and two together and realises that the "Sovereign was a geth" story was BS.

[TuringPoint]

onelifecrisis wrote...
 If people bought the line about Sovereign = Geth then 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 Geth. Surely this is not a complicated thing to grasp. On the other hand if they bought Shepard's line about Sovereign = Reaper (or if the Alliance simply came clean during the attack) then 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 Reapers. Again, it's rather simple.

What you will notice is that in neither scenario does 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 "I don't knows". In the face of such an attack everyone would be saying "these are the things that attacked the Citadel" not "oh, I wonder what these things are".

They were not expecting the attack.  The trailer said, "We don't know what they are," not, "there are 100,000 I don't knows attacking."  It's a primal response, it's a real response.  That's why it's dramatic and effective.

How about, "These are obviously not Geth like we were told.  So what the heck are they?"  This is what they would think when creatures which were clearly not Geth poured out.  This is what the trailer expresses.  Also, why would average people have access to highly classified reports which are widely discredited by official sources, and assume them to be accurate? When does that happen in real life?

I definitely resent your tone, but I won't be an ****. At least, not right now.  Not really in the mood. Suffice to say, the trailer gets across a point much better than it would if it had been designed by a committee of nerd ragers that take everything too literally.  If advertisements annoy you, ignore them.  They're not part of the game anyway.

[ArcanistLibram]

The narrator doesn't blame the invasion on the geth because if he did, people (probably the ones who are whining now) would complain that the Reapers are clearly the ones who are invading Earth, not the geth.

[TuringPoint]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

The narrator doesn't blame the invasion on the geth because if he did, people (probably the ones who are whining now) would complain that the Reapers are clearly the ones who are invading Earth, not the geth.

Also, this.  It would be another, different reason for pedantic whining.

Modifié par Alocormin, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:18 .

[SandTrout]

Alocormin wrote...
They were not expecting the attack.  The trailer said, "We don't know what they are," not, "there are 100,000 I don't knows attacking."  It's a primal response, it's a real response.  That's why it's dramatic and effective.

How about, "These are obviously not Geth like we were told.  So what the heck are they?"  This is what they would think when creatures which were clearly not Geth poured out.  This is what the trailer expresses.  Also, why would average people have access to highly classified reports which are widely discredited by official sources, and assume them to be accurate? When does that happen in real life?

I definitely resent your tone, but I won't be an ****. At least, not right now.  Not really in the mood. Suffice to say, the trailer gets across a point much better than it would if it had been designed by a committee of nerd ragers that take everything too literally.  If advertisements annoy you, ignore them.  They're not part of the game anyway.

+1

[onelifecrisis]

Alocormin wrote...

How about, "These are obviously not Geth like we were told.  So what the heck are they?"  This is what they would think when creatures which were clearly not Geth poured out.

If the Sovereigns are "clearly not Geth" then the cover-up story  "Sovereign was Geth" was fairly ridiculous, don't you think? You can't have it both ways.

Alocormin wrote...

Also, why would average people have access to highly classified reports which are widely discredited by official sources, and assume them to be accurate?

What highly classified reports? Where does it say that Shepard's reports were classified? And if they were highly classified then how did Ken and Gabby know about them? And how and why would Ken publicly defend them if the public didn't even know what he was defending?

Alocormin wrote...

If advertisements annoy you, ignore them.  They're not part of the game anyway.

Ads don't annoy me, but die-hard fanboys who can't stand any criticism of their chosen obsession? Yeah, they can be annoying.

[Tennessee88]

 He could be simply talking about what we are assume are the Husk. He did seem rather in awe at the sight of he Reapers landing. Why the reapers are hitting Earth first is interesting, why wouldn't they continue there original plans which allow them to shut down the mass relays.

[Weskerr]

Alocormin wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...
 If people bought the line about Sovereign = Geth then 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 Geth. Surely this is not a complicated thing to grasp. On the other hand if they bought Shepard's line about Sovereign = Reaper (or if the Alliance simply came clean during the attack) then 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 Reapers. Again, it's rather simple.

What you will notice is that in neither scenario does 100,000 Sovereigns = 100,000 "I don't knows". In the face of such an attack everyone would be saying "these are the things that attacked the Citadel" not "oh, I wonder what these things are".

They were not expecting the attack.  The trailer said, "We don't know what they are," not, "there are 100,000 I don't knows attacking."  It's a primal response, it's a real response.  That's why it's dramatic and effective.

How about, "These are obviously not Geth like we were told.  So what the heck are they?"  This is what they would think when creatures which were clearly not Geth poured out.  This is what the trailer expresses.  Also, why would average people have access to highly classified reports which are widely discredited by official sources, and assume them to be accurate? When does that happen in real life?

I definitely resent your tone, but I won't be an ****. At least, not right now.  Not really in the mood. Suffice to say, the trailer gets across a point much better than it would if it had been designed by a committee of nerd ragers that take everything too literally.  If advertisements annoy you, ignore them.  They're not part of the game anyway.

Personal attacks and insults don't make your argument more convincing, at least they shouldn't. Just stick with your first two paragraphs and leave out the ad hominem.

[TuringPoint]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

If advertisements annoy you, ignore them.  They're not part of the game anyway.

Ads don't annoy me, but die-hard fanboys who can't stand any criticism of their chosen obsession? Yeah, they can be annoying.

Wait, you think you're talking about me?  Is that a personal attack?  Because I wasn't going there.  I was actually being nice, but persistent, insisting that I be warranted some basic human respect.

Modifié par Alocormin, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:33 .

[Malanek]

I don't have the slightest problem with this. It's a natural reaction for people to want to not believe in overwhelming threats so they don't live in fear. It is a relatively easy thing for the council (who don't want to believe themselves) to cover up. And the invaders are clearly not geth.

[onelifecrisis]

Alocormin wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

If advertisements annoy you, ignore them.  They're not part of the game anyway.

Ads don't annoy me, but die-hard fanboys who can't stand any criticism of their chosen obsession? Yeah, they can be annoying.

Wait, you think you're talking about me?  Is that a personal attack?  Because I wasn't going there.  

Could have fooled me.

[Terraneaux]

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't have the slightest problem with this. It's a natural reaction for people to want to not believe in overwhelming threats so they don't live in fear. It is a relatively easy thing for the council (who don't want to believe themselves) to cover up. And the invaders are clearly not geth.

But mysteriously TIM *does* believe.  And the Quarians.  Mysteriously, anyone with the power to do anything about it doesn't believe.  It's almost like the writing team for ME2 just wanted to do their own thing, not write for Mass Effect.

[Malanek]

Terraneaux wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't have the slightest problem with this. It's a natural reaction for people to want to not believe in overwhelming threats so they don't live in fear. It is a relatively easy thing for the council (who don't want to believe themselves) to cover up. And the invaders are clearly not geth.

But mysteriously TIM *does* believe.  And the Quarians.  Mysteriously, anyone with the power to do anything about it doesn't believe.  It's almost like the writing team for ME2 just wanted to do their own thing, not write for Mass Effect.

The illusive man has the power and the inclination to do what he can about them. I am largely talking about the masses and weaker-willed.

Modifié par Malanek999, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:37 .

[TuringPoint]

Plenty of people in power believe in the Reapers. TIM has power, so do the Quarians. Just not official, council power.

[TuringPoint]

onelifecrisis wrote...


Could have fooled me.

Ooo.  Was it the part where I strongly said, "I resent your tone, but I won't be an ****?"

The little bit after that was... belittling.  Personal attack?  Not really, though I sincerely apologize if it bothered you that much.  It didn't seem out of line with what was going on already.

(Please, please don't take that as an invitation to take further offense.  Really not necessary at this point)

Modifié par Alocormin, 12 décembre 2010 - 08:41 .