455 réponses à ce sujet

[lovgreno]

Fanservice may not be the style of ME. To service the fans by giving them what they want however, is something gameproducers must do to survive. You got to give the consumers what they want or they wont give you any money. There are many who wants Garrus, Tali and Wrex in their squad and are willing to pay for this.

[Bamboozalist]

lovgreno wrote...

Fanservice may not be the style of ME. To service the fans by giving them what they want however, is something gameproducers must do to survive. You got to give the consumers what they want or they wont give you any money. There are many who wants Garrus, Tali and Wrex in their squad and are willing to pay for this.

The fact that wrex will probably be in your squad in ME3 to appease the Wrex fans makes me upset greatly and I think Wrex is probably the best squad mate so far but he shouldn't be in your squad in ME3.

[Barquiel]

Default ME2 Shepard has Wrex dead , it is very unlikely he'll return as a squadmate in ME3.

[MassDestroyer]

All I have to say is:

Yes, yes I will be mad

That is an understatement

I will be so f@#%ing furious I will rip the disk in half

[lovgreno]

Barquiel wrote...

Default ME2 Shepard has Wrex dead , it is very unlikely he'll return as a squadmate in ME3.

ME3 doesn't need to follow the ME2 default. There could even be alternative defaults so those who prefers him dead kan have that too.

I'm sure BioWare can find a clever way to include Wrex if they realy want to. And since Wrex is popular I don't see why they wouldn't want that.

[Blastback]

If I can't get my love intrest from the first game and Garrus and Tali back, I'll cry.



Thank the lord Gaider is busy with Dragon Age. I can only handle so much

[lovgreno]

Aglazzboi wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Aglazzboi wrote...They are creative enough to expand on me1/me2 crew mates or to fill the gaps with new ones if they died in your playthrough.

Why should those who got squadmembers killed get anything instead? All availiable squadmembers from previous games should be a reward for those who took the time and effort to keep everyone, including Wrex, alive. If you miss someone because you got them killed, replay the two first games better.

Im saying this beacause everybody doesnt like all the squad members from the first 2 games. But i do. I could care less if we see any new squad mates that is what im saying. You might of mistaken what i was trying to say. I play to keep everybody alive assuming that it will probably (and will) make difference in me3.

Oh sorry if it sounded like I was arguing against you, that was not my intention. I was just speaking of all of us in general. And I do agree with you that it is most fun to try to keep everyone alive and hope that is rewarded in ME3. In fact I suspect most of us plays the game like that.

[AgentMulder5]

If Garrus doesn't come back I'll flip my [insert many naughty words here].

[Bourne Endeavor]

Elite Midget wrote...

schneeland wrote...

If you mind reading your texts again, you may notice that your outright aggresive attitude works to the detriment of your arguments. There are actually people who care for a certain politeness, even on the internet.

So, all the best, Sir. I will leave this stage for a while.

Being polite to those that are clouded by a mist of fanboyism and fanaticism for dead Squaddies isn't going to do me any favors. I can be the politest poster around and it would have a far less effect than being blunt and to the point as well as presenting cold hard 'facts' so that they can prepare themselves so that they aren't disapointed when ME3 hits and we get a new Squad.

Sigh, I was hoping to ignore you however your persistence, while partially admirable, is irritating. No, you are not presenting "cold hard facts." By definition, a fact is something, which derives from irrefutable evidence and is not subject to debate. Have you received confirmation from Bioware executives that squad mates in Mass Effect 2 will not return beyond a minor cameo appearance? No? Then what you have are assumptions. It is undeniable these assumptions are based upon a more probable scenario and admittedly is an opinion we share. Such does not establish fact. There are perfectly feasible methods to accommodate both newcomers; in the event Bioware does cater them them, and adhere to the demands of the fanbase.

If I were to vague elude to a possibility. This would entail a gameplay design wherein we have three new squad mates to cover either the generic three classes (Soldier, Adept, Engineer) or the three diversified ones (Vanguard, Infiltrator, Sentinel), for the purposes of game balance. The remaining cast from the previous games are included based upon whether they survived with unique content only available to them respectively. The aforementioned is non plot irrelevant or handled in a manner that allows for subtle replacement in the event of their demise in one of ME3's predecessors. For example, a group of people may suffer indoctrination and attack Shepard. While generic nobodies for those who have not imported, this could include Garrus for those who have. They scene would content exclusive dialogue and a personal impact to only those who have imported.

Those are merely two attempts to offer a compromise amongst the fans, albeit the Garrus scenario is one I usually present as an acceptable cameo and would be lengthily in execution. (LotSB-esque.)

Perhaps past squad mates join for only a mission or two, perhaps not at all. You have no further evidence to conclude as matter of fact what the intended outcome will be and merely have entertained gradual trolling by forcing your opinion upon others. What you have is a more than likely probability, nothing more. Accept that and move on.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 16 décembre 2010 - 01:16 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Barquiel wrote...

Default ME2 Shepard has Wrex dead , it is very unlikely he'll return as a squadmate in ME3.

And why not? ME3, according to Casey Hudson, gives the developers more freedom and flexibility because they don't have to worry about continuity. So I wouldn't rule Wrex out. Apparently they will have significantly different outcomes based on the events of the first two games. This was reported earlier this year. 

-Polite

[Lunaful]

They've created a basis why mess with it? They might create a few new npc's and let some characters with terminal illnesses die (wink wink). If its not broke leave it be.

[Bamboozalist]

One thing that has been over looked and ignored over and over again is the vast difference in the plot roles of the two groups squad mates and the decisions you made with those squad mates

A lot of the anti-ME2 squad mates use the claim that Bioware said they aren't killing off the ME1 squad mates because of plot importance which isn't true for the ME2 squad mates or "zombies" as a reason why they shouldn't be in ME3 but completely disregarding the completely different roles they play.

Mass Effect 1 was about Shepard building his/her galactic reputation and making some of the most important decisions in regards to the alliances to fight the reapers. The Krogan, The Rachni, The Council, The Alliance all these come from Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 1 was about the macro and the squad reflected that.

Wrex - Unites the Krogan, plot important but at the same time being plot important means that he actually has something to do, he can't follow Shepard around because he's the leader of the Krogan, which is why he had to survive ME2 if you saved him.

Liara - Same boat as Wrex, she has to be the Shadow Broker can't be following Shepard around.

VS - DLC will probably expand their role and show why it was important that they survived probably will be key in the Alliance effort, they're really the only one who can rejoin Shepard since they're not high ranking officials who have other more important things to do.

Now Mass Effect 2 had none of this the two allies in ME2 to help the Reapers are the Quarians who really are inconsequential at best in terms of realistic fleet and military power and the Geth who don't require anything more than data on the situation. Mass Effect 2 didn't need to focus on the macro Mass Effect 1 already laid the macro groundwork so instead we got the micro we got a large group of people who have no political pull but are excellent specialists who can follow Shepard around. Mass Effect 2 was all about building a team and a circle of trust with that team and while many of them signed on for one mission they slowly grow into your new team. If someone is in Shepard's squad they're not plot important, because they literally have nothing better to do than follow Shepard around while Shepard rallies the groups, this is why Garrus and Tali came back in ME2, yes it was to please their fanbase but it also made sense that plot wise they returned they're the ones who have nothing better to do than help Shepard fight, Garrus is Shepard's pupil basically and Tali well Tali just doesn't seem cut out for Admiralty especially with all of her reactions to Quarian politics. Wrex on the other hand only had a cameo because he has actual important crap to take care of to help Shepard.

For that reason ME2 squad mates should be in ME3 and the ME1 squad mates shouldn't precisely because the ME1 squad mates are important, they can't be following Shepard around as he does his thing, they have information networks to run and armies to command.

As for the bullsh*t claim that ME2 had less squad interaction is just that. Lets compare.

ME1 each character only had 3 to 4 (unlocked after each plot world) conversations you could have with them plus what they said in the field (which was much less than in ME2 which had much more squad banter in reaction to your actions, and much more unique situational dialogue) So Mass Effect 1 had generally 4 ship conversations for each squad mate = 20 unique conversations + 4 conversations with the council after each plot world + 4 Joker throw away lines after each world + 1 investigate conversation about Joker + 1 investigate conversation with presley, chakwas, and adams = 32 ship "conversations"

Let's compare that to my last ME2 play through as a female not romancing anyone where I can't give a solid number on conversations because they're more than I can count.

Joker = 1 "investigate conversation" + 6? Him and Edi conversation + all the throw away lines from recruitment and loyalty missions
Edi = 2 real "investigate conversations"
Doctor Hacksaw Anagram = 1 "investigate conversation" + 1 real conversation
Engineers = 1 "investigate Conversation" + poker
Chef = 1 "Investigate conversation"
Kelly = 1 "investigate conversation" + all her post mission short conversations

Jacob = I think I got 3 talks + his loyalty mission talk and follow up before I got to "let's drink on the citadel" because I didn't romance him = 4 conversations
Miranda = I got 2 talks + her loyalty talk and follow up = 3 conversations
Garrus = I got 2 talks + his loyalty and follow up before I had to go because I didn't romance him = 3 conversations
Jack = I got 2 talks, her loyalty mission and follow up, + 2 more talks before she told me she didn't play for that team and thanked me for being her friend = 5 conversations
Grunt = I got 3 talks + loyalty and follow up talks = 4 conversations
Mordin = 2 pre loyalty, loyalty and follow up + singing + sexual conversation = 5 conversations
Thane = 3 talks + loyalty and follow up = 4 conversations
Samara = 3 talks + loyalty and follow up = 4 conversations
Tali = 2 talks + loyalty and follow up = 3 conversations
Legion = 2 talks + loyalty and follow up = 3 conversation

Also 10 investigate conversations with them + 2 confrontations + 4 possible post confrontation make ups if you picked a side and didn't para/rene the situation. Also there tons of "talk to squad mate" areas while exploring. Not to mention the non conversation dialogue of the SR-2 Crew and Zaeed and Kasumi.

So in conclusion Mass Effect 2 managed to have more squad interaction with its 12 man crew than Mass Effect 1 and its 6 man crew. Both games have less than other Bioware games but ME2 has more than ME1.

[Aglazzboi]

lovgreno wrote...

Aglazzboi wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Aglazzboi wrote...They are creative enough to expand on me1/me2 crew mates or to fill the gaps with new ones if they died in your playthrough.

Why should those who got squadmembers killed get anything instead? All availiable squadmembers from previous games should be a reward for those who took the time and effort to keep everyone, including Wrex, alive. If you miss someone because you got them killed, replay the two first games better.

Im saying this beacause everybody doesnt like all the squad members from the first 2 games. But i do. I could care less if we see any new squad mates that is what im saying. You might of mistaken what i was trying to say. I play to keep everybody alive assuming that it will probably (and will) make difference in me3.

Oh sorry if it sounded like I was arguing against you, that was not my intention. I was just speaking of all of us in general. And I do agree with you that it is most fun to try to keep everyone alive and hope that is rewarded in ME3. In fact I suspect most of us plays the game like that.

My bad too i just dont want to see these characters go to waste. What is the point of saving everybody jus to see another wrex appearance. 1000 variables i am expecting.

[lothvamp]

I'd be a bit irritated if you didn't get any of the squad members you worked so hard to recruit in me2, but it would be kind of interesting to have to (relatively quickly) go collect them from leave so you could see what everyone does in their off time - as a way of squad building.

[Nozybidaj]

Bamboozalist wrote...

Exceptit's not. Replacing your team for the sequel is one of the biggest unoriginal overly used RPG cliche there is. On the other hand succesfully keeping and maintaining interesting characters that still feel enjoyable and aren't degraded to cameos or static lifeless crew requires actual talent.

You have no idea how much I agree with this. *looks at ME2* <_<

[Merlin 47]

Aglazzboi wrote...

My bad too i just dont want to see these characters go to waste. What is the point of saving everybody jus to see another wrex appearance. 1000 variables i am expecting.

I couldn't agree more.  I don't mind if they want to give us back the VS and Liara (Wrex would be way to busy leading the Krogan to join Shepard again).  But what would be the point if you went through the suicide mission, saved everyone, only to have them all removed for the sake of a new squad?

You might as well go through the suicide mission again and just try to kill off everybody except for the two squadmates you need to survive yourself.

[ScotOfClanDonald]

I find it drastically unlikely that they'll just "erase" all of our ME2 squaddies.  That's not something that Bioware would ever do.  They just wouldn't.
The problem is that they also can't base the whole game on characters that could be dead; they also doubtlessly have new character ideas that they want to try.

As I suggested yesterday ( social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/5471874 ), there is a way that they could include every surviving character and give them each a heroic and memorable moment, what I call a "hero snapshot." 

We already have precident for this, with Liara in Lair of the Shadow Broker.  Characters that are "too busy" doing something else important could also put down their burdens for a day, giving us an advantage for one mission while advancing the overall plotline.

This saves on overall resources, I think, because you don't need to do a whole game's worth of plotting for each character, just one mission and (probably) the big grand finale end game.

[Nozybidaj]

ScotOfClanDonald wrote...

I find it drastically unlikely that they'll just "erase" all of our ME2 squaddies.  That's not something that Bioware would ever do.  They just wouldn't.

/shrug I dunno.  ME2 came pretty close to that with the ME1 squad.  They were basically one step away from just pretending they didn't exist at all.

[Wittand25]

ScotOfClanDonald wrote...

I find it drastically unlikely that they'll just "erase" all of our ME2 squaddies.  That's not something that Bioware would ever do.  They just wouldn't.
The problem is that they also can't base the whole game on characters that could be dead; they also doubtlessly have new character ideas that they want to try.

As I suggested yesterday ( social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/5471874 ), there is a way that they could include every surviving character and give them each a heroic and memorable moment, what I call a "hero snapshot." 

We already have precident for this, with Liara in Lair of the Shadow Broker.  Characters that are "too busy" doing something else important could also put down their burdens for a day, giving us an advantage for one mission while advancing the overall plotline.

This saves on overall resources, I think, because you don't need to do a whole game's worth of plotting for each character, just one mission and (probably) the big grand finale end game.

Yeah that suggestion is around ever since people finished ME2 and started speculating about ME3. I myself believe that this is what will happen with the potential LIs and fan favorites while others might get less. But I fully expect everyone to get conclusion even if it is just a video in the endgame cinematics and none of the squad-mates to be completly ereased.

[ScotOfClanDonald]

Nozybidaj wrote...

ScotOfClanDonald wrote...

I find it drastically unlikely that they'll just "erase" all of our ME2 squaddies.  That's not something that Bioware would ever do.  They just wouldn't.

/shrug I dunno.  ME2 came pretty close to that with the ME1 squad.  They were basically one step away from just pretending they didn't exist at all.

Uh, Wrex is the leader of all Krogan and the top guy at a major quest hub, Liara has a featured place at another hub and gets her own DLC, and Garrus and Tali are joinable NPCs and love interests.  The only ones that get a bit shafted for screentime so far are Kaidan and Ashley... and one of them is dead.  The other probably gets a DLC eventually.

I'd hardly call that "one step away from pretending they didn't exist at all."

[xiiz]

For sure, I'd hate it if they decided to abandon the squadmates you practically spent an entire game getting to know and recruit. Actually that's one of my biggest concerns with ME3.

[Bamboozalist]

xiiz wrote...

For sure, I'd hate it if they decided to abandon the squadmates you practically spent an entire game getting to know and recruit. Actually that's one of my biggest concerns with ME3.

If certain people get their way that's what's going to happen.

[diakrite]

Hmm..having read about 100 posts, I think the "one special mission for every surviving ME2 squaddie" is about right. The LI-bit could be something that is going to be used. Would be a bit pointless if not, and they said as much that being faithful, or not to Your LI, will have an impact on ME3.
Making new, extended storylines and branching conversations for squaddies who could be dead, depending on gameplay in ME2, seems a bit of a waste of resources. Bioware can do only so much in time and money. They are trying to construct a franchise a la Star Wars ,they have been open about that, but they are only beginning.

I honestly believe Bioware will have some surprizing and interesting new squadmates, though. The sniper soldier from the trailer is already a given imho.

All in all, there is only one certainty ,and that is : Dead Shepard in ME2-->Start completely new game in ME3. The rest? Just speculation and some thought-provoking educated guesses, however much some people may believe their own "facts".

Modifié par diakrite, 20 décembre 2010 - 09:18 .

[Vena_86]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Default ME2 Shepard has Wrex dead , it is very unlikely he'll return as a squadmate in ME3.

And why not? ME3, according to Casey Hudson, gives the developers more freedom and flexibility because they don't have to worry about continuity. So I wouldn't rule Wrex out. Apparently they will have significantly different outcomes based on the events of the first two games. This was reported earlier this year. 

-Polite

They don't have to worry about continuity anymore, but they still have to worry about resources. With a limited budget and limited time they have to compromise. This means squad mates that will not be available for all players are a waste of resources, specially since these characters have a lot of voice acting and possibly their own missions. BioWare can not provide satisfying content for all previous characters and have a enough other content for the main story.
As long as old characters are handled like Wrex or Liare (with DLC) then it is fine. It should not end like with Ashley/Kaidan though. 

Some people have so much love for the previous characters, that they probably forget, that this is BioWares speciality. I have lots of concerns about game design and overal direction (hard science vs comic) but I trust BioWare completely that they will have some great new characters in stock for us, and that they will be just as popular as the current ones.