*SPOILERS BELOW*
We all know the Dwarf Noble has the best origin, so there is no need to worry which about which is #1, but what about the rest?
#2: Mage, content wise it is superior to city elf
#3: City Elf, plot wise it could be said it is superior to mage. But being knocked out by a **** slap... way to make a player feel like they are definitely not a badass worthy of being a warden.
#4: Dwarf Casteless, not bad. No great either.
#5: Human Noble, so you go to sleep and then get attacked in the morning. *yawn* Short, but meaningful.
#6: Dalish Elf. what was the point of this origin again?
Personal Motivations.
Note is not about what opportunities arise at the very end of the game, but about what factors drive the character during the whole game. Furthermore, it is not based on hindsight. Ergo, the city elf is no more motivated to kill Howe because you don't even know what he did in the Alienage until the end of the game.
#1: Human Noble, human like 90% of Fereldens the the main villains killed your parents. The premier motivation with the most at stake and probably the best story resolution. The game seems built with a human character in mind, which makes sense.
#2: Dwarf Noble, sure the surface is in trouble, but your primary villian is your brother and dwarven politics. Sadly, you don't get to resolve that properly, but the vendetta is still there. I was really hoping for a one-one-one, more personal fight. Bhelen barely even acknowledges you. I wanted to kill him in the Proving Arena similar to the end of Gladiator. Quite disappointing and unsatisfying, but its still something. More than can be said for #3 - #4.
#3 City Elf, This one should be more than it is. The fact that you arrive in Denerim and know something bad happened in the Alienage, probably in relation to your actions, and the fact that you can't knock that single guard out and see what's going on inside completely breaks the character. Not to mention getting knocked out cold by a single **** slap from a lesser noble, but that's another story. Of course, stopping the Blight saves elvish lives as well, but that all the motivation you have: Stop the Blight because it's bad. Standard motivation. Nonetheless, it is yur surface world at stake which is more than can be said for the duster warden.
#4 Dwarf Casteless, I don't feel you have much in terms of vendettas. You may want to kill Jarvia, but that is hardly on the same level as #1 and #2. I doubt most players going to Orzammer as a casteless gave Jarvia any thought until the point she was mentioned. There are political issues concerning the future of duster and ensuring your nephew becomes a heir to the throne, but again this is not a thing that drives your character's actions. It's something you only find out about once back in Orzammer. The only reason this is below the City Elf is because the casteless dwarf has less to lose. Orzammer isn't in any greater threat than usual. Actually, it's safer during a Blight. But I doubt duster care about Orzammer itself, as much as they do their particular friends and family.
#4 Dalish Elf, hardly any. The Dalish are nomadic and can simply out run the Blight until other human kingdoms finally unite and stop it. Perhaps the dalish cares enough about the flat ears to fight for their sake, but that pretty generic either way. Every origin is essential stopping the Blight because the Blight is a bad thing. Nothing particularly special here. (tied with mage)
#4 Mage, the surface may or may not have less meaning to a Circle mage. They've had to live up in a tower because everyone he is trying to protect is afraid of him. A mage really has no extra motivation. The character has no vendettas, no personal nemesis and no unresolved issues. The player's character doesn't have any world experience to have any greater or extrapersonal motivations. (tied with dalsih elf)
The Best Origins
Débuté par
Dayshadow
, déc. 12 2010 10:59
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#2
Posté 12 décembre 2010 - 11:11
Zjarcal
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Dwarf Noble being the best is strictly an opinion, not a fact.
#3
Posté 12 décembre 2010 - 11:24
Mr_Steph
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Zjarcal wrote...
Dwarf Noble being the best is strictly an opinion, not a fact.
Indeed. Personally I would only rank DN #3. CE #1 and HN#2.
#4
Posté 12 décembre 2010 - 11:24
bleetman
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There's more to motivation than revenge and vendettas, y'know. Some of my characters stick around to make something of themselves. Some of them want to see the world outside of a prison. Generally speaking, my mage and casteless characters are the only ones acting enthusiastic about being recruited, glad to be away from their old lives. My Dalish stays a warden so as to represent her people, to show them as something other than feral barbarians.
So on and so forth.
So on and so forth.
#5
Posté 12 décembre 2010 - 11:49
BigBad
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Personally, I rank them like this:
1: Dwarf Casteless - The first origin I played and still one of the best. It makes for an extremely satisfying rags-to-riches story, has a lot of thought put into the callbacks and closure in the late mid-game, and does a sterling job at immersing you into the world as an outsider on many levels.
2. Dwarf Noble - I have yet to do a complete game run with this origin, but I have played the origin itself several times and it does just as well as the DC in immersing you into the game world and giving you satisfying resolution and closure later on. A fun fall-from-grace tale.
3. Human Noble - Fairly generic in comparison to other origins, but the key to getting the most out of this origin is not in the origin story itself, but in the nigh-constant callbacks and references throughout the game, include a number of nice payoffs toward the endgame.
4. City Elf - This one would rank a bit higher, but it's really two different origins in one, and one rates much higher than the other. The male City Elf is a decent story of repression and vengeance, but it doesn't really hit the right notes as hard as it could. The female City Elf, on the other hand, goes through almost the same plot with a few different sequences that make all the difference. Hands down, the CEF is one of the best origins for immersion and identification as a badass.
5. Mage - Not much to say about them. A good enough story, with decent resolution after the prologues.
6. Dalish Elf - They suck. They suck hard. The end.
1: Dwarf Casteless - The first origin I played and still one of the best. It makes for an extremely satisfying rags-to-riches story, has a lot of thought put into the callbacks and closure in the late mid-game, and does a sterling job at immersing you into the world as an outsider on many levels.
2. Dwarf Noble - I have yet to do a complete game run with this origin, but I have played the origin itself several times and it does just as well as the DC in immersing you into the game world and giving you satisfying resolution and closure later on. A fun fall-from-grace tale.
3. Human Noble - Fairly generic in comparison to other origins, but the key to getting the most out of this origin is not in the origin story itself, but in the nigh-constant callbacks and references throughout the game, include a number of nice payoffs toward the endgame.
4. City Elf - This one would rank a bit higher, but it's really two different origins in one, and one rates much higher than the other. The male City Elf is a decent story of repression and vengeance, but it doesn't really hit the right notes as hard as it could. The female City Elf, on the other hand, goes through almost the same plot with a few different sequences that make all the difference. Hands down, the CEF is one of the best origins for immersion and identification as a badass.
5. Mage - Not much to say about them. A good enough story, with decent resolution after the prologues.
6. Dalish Elf - They suck. They suck hard. The end.
#6
Posté 12 décembre 2010 - 11:56
mousestalker
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1. CEF- The single bestest origin in the game. Absolutely nothing gets handed to you. You have to fight your way from less than nothing to ascend to saving Ferelden. And you get Shianni and Dad!
2. DC- Much the same as CEF, but it lacks Lord Vaughan, he is the slimiest bit of nobly born trash to ever be in a video game. Still, DC has Rica, who is a great sister. And this is the only origin to get an empathetic comment from Morrigan.
3. DN- You get Gorim. Gorim + the stick of sovereign summoning equals game on easy mode. The male noble gets the noble hunters. The dwarf female gets Gorim, until Denerim when that dream dies a horrible death.
4+ All the others, including CEM. The Couslands get Mom, who is truly wonderful. The Dalish is blah until Witch Hunt, which kicks it to cool. The Magi origins are generic (I am not a Jowan fan).
2. DC- Much the same as CEF, but it lacks Lord Vaughan, he is the slimiest bit of nobly born trash to ever be in a video game. Still, DC has Rica, who is a great sister. And this is the only origin to get an empathetic comment from Morrigan.
3. DN- You get Gorim. Gorim + the stick of sovereign summoning equals game on easy mode. The male noble gets the noble hunters. The dwarf female gets Gorim, until Denerim when that dream dies a horrible death.
4+ All the others, including CEM. The Couslands get Mom, who is truly wonderful. The Dalish is blah until Witch Hunt, which kicks it to cool. The Magi origins are generic (I am not a Jowan fan).
#7
Posté 12 décembre 2010 - 11:58
ArawnNox
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The best origins is a tough judgment call to make. If you'll excuse a wall of text, I'll do a bit of analyzing.
Dwarves, Noble and Commoner: Being a bit of a dwarf fanboy, I'll admit a bit of bias, but these two origins are probably my favorites, and taken together, give you an excellent window into the various social strata of dwarven life. It's a tough call between which one is better in my personal estimation. I'm a big fan of overcoming social limitations, however, so I think commoner wins out.
City Elf: One of my favorites, because it presents elves in a way that I, personally, had not seen yet. You live in squalor and you get shown that the game does not take place in a happy fantasy land when your character's wedding is interupted. I haven't experienced this origin from a male point of view, yet, but I think it works better from a female's perspectve. I like strong female leads, so the F!Tabris taking charge and fighting her way out of the estate is all kinds of cool.
Mage: No matter what race you pick, it's all fairly the same with some minor variations in how you play out events. Theres a bit more here for an elf or a female character (getting to talk to another elf and/or flirting with cullen). It's neat in how it presents life as a mage as a gilded cage and the harsh conisquences of failing at your studies.
Human Noble: This is mostly standard stuff and doesn't really factor much in the game until the end. None of it really surprised me, but it does set the game's tone with Howe's trechary.
Dalish Elf: Short. Far too short. And lazy. You retread the same area twice and theres not a lot that draws you in. Heck, this is also the only origin (asside from mage) in which you have no family. At least with Mage you get a best friend who's interactions with the main character are longer and more significant.
As to the topic of personal motivations. In my opinion, it has less to do with your origin and more to do with Duncan and Ostagar. You're inducted to the Grey Wardens and are charged with defeating the Blight because that is your duty. You shouldn't need much more motivation than that. However, lets look at the orgins again and see what we can dig up, hmm?
Dwarves: The Noble experiences the war in the Deep Roads first hand. You already know all about darkspawn and what they're doing to your nation alone should be all the drive you need to end the blight. As a commoner, you may not have encountered any, yet, but you're well aware of them, as their presence in the deep roads is an everyday concern. Ontop of that, they make a point to say that the commoner was meant to do important things.
City Elf: I suppose this depends on the character's altruism. You see the worst humanity has to offer, but then, in your joining, you experience something wholey unhuman: Darkspawn. I can see that, being presented with such creatures, that'd you'd want to stop them from hurting anyone. Besides, your father and cousins are still alive and well (presumably) in Denerim, you'd want to fight to keep them safe.
Human Noble: Your parents last words involve making them proud. Arguably, the Couslands were pretty much the only non-disfunctional family unit in the origins, so I'd imagine that those words could be a major driving force in your character's quest to end the Blight. If not, then your sense of nobless oblige might. After all, you're a child of a Teyrn of Ferelden, you could fight for the simple preservation of your country.
Mage: Like the noble, you're (most likley, but could be otherwise) a child of Ferelden, simple patriotism could drive your quest. One might also suspect you've been brought up with a proper moral compass in regards to such things.
Dalish Elf: I'd like to disagree and state that the Dalish elf has plenty of reason to fight. Your people claimed the Brescillian Forest as a new homeland. If the blight comes, your people will die and the forest will be corrupted. You fight for them and their freedom. Ontop of that, you've already experienced the disease the Blight carries, as well as seen the monsters for yourself, you should have plenty of desire to stand against the Blight.
TL;DR
Dwarves rule!
Dwarves, Noble and Commoner: Being a bit of a dwarf fanboy, I'll admit a bit of bias, but these two origins are probably my favorites, and taken together, give you an excellent window into the various social strata of dwarven life. It's a tough call between which one is better in my personal estimation. I'm a big fan of overcoming social limitations, however, so I think commoner wins out.
City Elf: One of my favorites, because it presents elves in a way that I, personally, had not seen yet. You live in squalor and you get shown that the game does not take place in a happy fantasy land when your character's wedding is interupted. I haven't experienced this origin from a male point of view, yet, but I think it works better from a female's perspectve. I like strong female leads, so the F!Tabris taking charge and fighting her way out of the estate is all kinds of cool.
Mage: No matter what race you pick, it's all fairly the same with some minor variations in how you play out events. Theres a bit more here for an elf or a female character (getting to talk to another elf and/or flirting with cullen). It's neat in how it presents life as a mage as a gilded cage and the harsh conisquences of failing at your studies.
Human Noble: This is mostly standard stuff and doesn't really factor much in the game until the end. None of it really surprised me, but it does set the game's tone with Howe's trechary.
Dalish Elf: Short. Far too short. And lazy. You retread the same area twice and theres not a lot that draws you in. Heck, this is also the only origin (asside from mage) in which you have no family. At least with Mage you get a best friend who's interactions with the main character are longer and more significant.
As to the topic of personal motivations. In my opinion, it has less to do with your origin and more to do with Duncan and Ostagar. You're inducted to the Grey Wardens and are charged with defeating the Blight because that is your duty. You shouldn't need much more motivation than that. However, lets look at the orgins again and see what we can dig up, hmm?
Dwarves: The Noble experiences the war in the Deep Roads first hand. You already know all about darkspawn and what they're doing to your nation alone should be all the drive you need to end the blight. As a commoner, you may not have encountered any, yet, but you're well aware of them, as their presence in the deep roads is an everyday concern. Ontop of that, they make a point to say that the commoner was meant to do important things.
City Elf: I suppose this depends on the character's altruism. You see the worst humanity has to offer, but then, in your joining, you experience something wholey unhuman: Darkspawn. I can see that, being presented with such creatures, that'd you'd want to stop them from hurting anyone. Besides, your father and cousins are still alive and well (presumably) in Denerim, you'd want to fight to keep them safe.
Human Noble: Your parents last words involve making them proud. Arguably, the Couslands were pretty much the only non-disfunctional family unit in the origins, so I'd imagine that those words could be a major driving force in your character's quest to end the Blight. If not, then your sense of nobless oblige might. After all, you're a child of a Teyrn of Ferelden, you could fight for the simple preservation of your country.
Mage: Like the noble, you're (most likley, but could be otherwise) a child of Ferelden, simple patriotism could drive your quest. One might also suspect you've been brought up with a proper moral compass in regards to such things.
Dalish Elf: I'd like to disagree and state that the Dalish elf has plenty of reason to fight. Your people claimed the Brescillian Forest as a new homeland. If the blight comes, your people will die and the forest will be corrupted. You fight for them and their freedom. Ontop of that, you've already experienced the disease the Blight carries, as well as seen the monsters for yourself, you should have plenty of desire to stand against the Blight.
TL;DR
Dwarves rule!
#9
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:25
Dayshadow
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Zjarcal wrote...
Dwarf Noble being the best is strictly an opinion, not a fact.
Next you're going to tell me it's an opinion that the air I breath is a gas.
Enough silly talk, child. Everyone knows it is an irrefutable objective fact that the Dwarf Noble origin is the best.
#10
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:32
Dayshadow
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bleetman wrote...
There's more to motivation than revenge and vendettas, y'know. Some of my characters stick around to make something of themselves. Some of them want to see the world outside of a prison. Generally speaking, my mage and casteless characters are the only ones acting enthusiastic about being recruited, glad to be away from their old lives. My Dalish stays a warden so as to represent her people, to show them as something other than feral barbarians.
So on and so forth.
That's not what I'm talking about. How you chose to RP a character is your business. I'm talking about what Bioware actually put in the story. For instance, right off the bat the two noble origins have issues that are outside the scope of the Blight alone. None of the others do. Orzammer has a special significance for a dwarf noble and the landmeet fo human noble outisde of the main story. The City elf SHOULD have a more significant Alienage experience, but Bioware screwed the pooch on that one big time.
Basically, what you are saying is you stick around because the Blight is a bad thing and you think it should be stopped. Pretty generic. Not a bad reason, just a default generic reason shared by ALL the origins. So it kind cancels itself out. Know what I mean?
#11
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:34
Ferretinabun
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Enough silly talk, child. Everyone knows it is an irrefutable objective fact that the Dwarf Noble origin is the best.
Yup. True, that.
#12
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:36
Dayshadow
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BigBad wrote...
Personally, I rank them like this:
1: Dwarf Casteless - The first origin I played and still one of the best. It makes for an extremely satisfying rags-to-riches story, has a lot of thought put into the callbacks and closure in the late mid-game, and does a sterling job at immersing you into the world as an outsider on many levels.
2. Dwarf Noble - I have yet to do a complete game run with this origin, but I have played the origin itself several times and it does just as well as the DC in immersing you into the game world and giving you satisfying resolution and closure later on. A fun fall-from-grace tale.
3. Human Noble - Fairly generic in comparison to other origins, but the key to getting the most out of this origin is not in the origin story itself, but in the nigh-constant callbacks and references throughout the game, include a number of nice payoffs toward the endgame.
4. City Elf - This one would rank a bit higher, but it's really two different origins in one, and one rates much higher than the other. The male City Elf is a decent story of repression and vengeance, but it doesn't really hit the right notes as hard as it could. The female City Elf, on the other hand, goes through almost the same plot with a few different sequences that make all the difference. Hands down, the CEF is one of the best origins for immersion and identification as a badass.
5. Mage - Not much to say about them. A good enough story, with decent resolution after the prologues.
6. Dalish Elf - They suck. They suck hard. The end.
As far as best origin, I mean the origin itself, not the entire playthrough. The second list is more about the total package.
#13
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:38
errant_knight
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I don't enjoy the dwarf Origins, myself. Haven't we established that 'best' is so subjective as to be meaningless in this? People like different origins for different reasons, none of which are better or worse than your own. This is silly and verges on flame bait.
Modifié par errant_knight, 13 décembre 2010 - 01:38 .
#14
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:44
Zjarcal
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Dayshadow wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
Dwarf Noble being the best is strictly an opinion, not a fact.
Next you're going to tell me it's an opinion that the air I breath is a gas.
Enough silly talk, child. Everyone knows it is an irrefutable objective fact that the Dwarf Noble origin is the best.
You know, the people in this forums are capable of expressing opinions without resorting to name calling. If that's the kind of reply you're going to make I see no point in discussing anything with you.
#15
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:49
Dayshadow
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Guns wrote...
Human Commoner, but it got cut.
It was Human Barbarian. Chasind Wilder, I think.
Modifié par Dayshadow, 13 décembre 2010 - 01:52 .
#16
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:52
Dayshadow
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Zjarcal wrote...
Dayshadow wrote...
Zjarcal wrote...
Dwarf Noble being the best is strictly an opinion, not a fact.
Next you're going to tell me it's an opinion that the air I breath is a gas.
Enough silly talk, child. Everyone knows it is an irrefutable objective fact that the Dwarf Noble origin is the best.
You know, the people in this forums are capable of expressing opinions without resorting to name calling. If that's the kind of reply you're going to make I see no point in discussing anything with you.
Why can't people express an appreciation for comments that, I would think, are clearly expressed jokingly. How can you possibly think anyone thinks their opinion is an objective fact?
#17
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:53
Dayshadow
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errant_knight wrote...
I don't enjoy the dwarf Origins, myself.
You must be the type of person who kicks puppies. You're worse than Hitler!!!!
#18
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:54
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
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I thought the dwarf origins were all about kicking puppies. Hence why they are so bad ass.
#19
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 01:58
Dayshadow
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The thing about the dalish origins was that it wasn;t an origin.
You get an idea of what it means to be a mage, dwarf noble, casteless and a city elf. I know enough about medieval humans nobilty to already get that origin. But the Dalish? Nothing you do helps the player understand what it means to be dalish. You're simply told what they are about, but you don't live it. Unless they are treasure hunters whose main objective is to get pwned by mirrors. It should have focused more on human villager confrontations, but they probably thought it would be too similar to City Elf (I disagree).
You get an idea of what it means to be a mage, dwarf noble, casteless and a city elf. I know enough about medieval humans nobilty to already get that origin. But the Dalish? Nothing you do helps the player understand what it means to be dalish. You're simply told what they are about, but you don't live it. Unless they are treasure hunters whose main objective is to get pwned by mirrors. It should have focused more on human villager confrontations, but they probably thought it would be too similar to City Elf (I disagree).
#20
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 02:00
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
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Dayshadow wrote...
Unless they are treasure hunters whose main objective is to get pwned by mirrors.
You have pretty much summed it up there.
You now have discovered what it means to be Dalish!
#21
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 02:01
Dayshadow
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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I thought the dwarf origins were all about kicking puppies. Hence why they are so bad ass.
They kick nugs into McNuggets, which makes then super cool. You know you knew when you saw Gorim walking through the diamond sector at the very beginning of the origin, all cool and stuff, that dwarves were the master race. I bet he just had some McNuggets.
#22
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 07:01
naledgeborn
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Master race? Could've fooled me, them being on the endangered species list because of their politics and all.
Edit: Yes, human barbarian would've been the best. Especially for Morrigan fans.
Edit: Yes, human barbarian would've been the best. Especially for Morrigan fans.
Modifié par naledgeborn, 13 décembre 2010 - 07:05 .
#23
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 07:11
mellifera
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My ranking:
1- Dwarf Casteless
2- Dwarf Noble
3- Dalish Elf
4- City Elf
5- Human Noble
6- Mage
1- Dwarf Casteless
2- Dwarf Noble
3- Dalish Elf
4- City Elf
5- Human Noble
6- Mage
#25
Posté 13 décembre 2010 - 10:08
Wulfram
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I like City Elf and Dwarf Noble the best. I think Dwarf Noble is particularly well written, with lots of opportunity given to allow the player to define their character.
I really dislike the Mage origin, because it railroads your character pretty horribly if you're not willing to join Jowan's harebrained scheme. I find the DC very restrictive too - you can be a thug, a stupidly naive thug or a complaining thug.
I really dislike the Mage origin, because it railroads your character pretty horribly if you're not willing to join Jowan's harebrained scheme. I find the DC very restrictive too - you can be a thug, a stupidly naive thug or a complaining thug.
