93 réponses à ce sujet

[CalJones]

I liked the HN origin best for emotional impact, even if it isn't the most fun to play. I liked all of the others, though DE was the least satisfying for me. I was not a fan of the whole "ooh you got sick by touching a mirror!" thing. I was rather nonplussed by that. It made more sense in Witch Hunt but as a plot device, I thought it was rather lame.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Dayshadow wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I thought the dwarf origins were all about kicking puppies. Hence why they are so bad ass.

They kick nugs into McNuggets, which makes then super cool.  You know you knew when you saw Gorim walking through the diamond sector at the very beginning of the origin, all cool and stuff, that dwarves were the master race.  I bet he just had some McNuggets.

Hell yeah. My Dn could not romance anyone because not only are humans and elves inferior to dwarves, none could compare to the Chuck-Norris level of awesome that is Gorim.

My favorite race/class origin, however, is human mage. Being railroaded into helping Jowan, though most people don't like it and was somewhat poorly implemented, really does help reflect the position of the mages in Chantry run Thedas: damned if you do, damned if you don't, no matter what you do/don't do.

[Corker]

Esbatty wrote...

7: Radioactive Spider-bite

That'd be Beter Brosca.  (Tip to mousestalker for that one.)  We also came up with Bruce Cousland - family murdered, he becomes a BAMF Dark Warden to get revenge.  Also, Daenna, daughter of the goddess Mythal and a mortal elf who becomes Wonder Warden. 

Two thousand years ago, a brilliant but arrogant Tevinter mage led an exploratory team, composed of one of each race (yeah, I know the qunari weren't there yet; must be Thedas 2) into the Fade.  What they encountered there left them altered and changed - the Fearsome Four!

Or maybe it was just the one guy, who became the Incredible Hurlock?

[Eski.Moe]

I didn't mind any of them really. My favourite would have to be the Dalish Elf or Human Noble origins. Just felt the most invested into those.

[mousestalker]

Corker wrote...

Esbatty wrote...

7: Radioactive Spider-bite

That'd be Beter Brosca.  (Tip to mousestalker for that one.)  We also came up with Bruce Cousland - family murdered, he becomes a BAMF Dark Warden to get revenge.  Also, Daenna, daughter of the goddess Mythal and a mortal elf who becomes Wonder Warden. 

Two thousand years ago, a brilliant but arrogant Tevinter mage led an exploratory team, composed of one of each race (yeah, I know the qunari weren't there yet; must be Thedas 2) into the Fade.  What they encountered there left them altered and changed - the Fearsome Four!

Or maybe it was just the one guy, who became the Incredible Hurlock?

The problem with Bruce Cousland is that logically he'd have to become BatBann (so as to disguise his origin). And that means that every time he comes out you'd hear the theme song. Which conflicts with the overall Cousland theme.

[atunnei]

I would see him being less Bruice Cousland and more Frank Cousland. Too much killing to be the Batbann.



My favorite was the Mage origin, but that maybe due to the left out details about living at the tower that I filled in for myself. (Grumble: Stupid Lily stealing my blood mage)

[Patchwork]

atunnei wrote...

I would see him being less Bruice Cousland and more Frank Cousland. Too much killing to be the Batbann.

My favorite was the Mage origin, but that maybe due to the left out details about living at the tower that I filled in for myself. (Grumble: Stupid Lily stealing my blood mage)

IA the mage origin has the most RPG potential, there's so much hinted at but your free to make what you want of it, but CEF is my favourite origin to play through.

[Dayshadow]

yukidama wrote...

My ranking:
1- Dwarf Casteless
2- Dwarf Noble
3- Dalish Elf
4- City Elf
5- Human Noble
6- Mage

Dalish elf at 3? It's not even an origin. There is nothing in that supposed origin that let's the player identify with what it means to be dalish.  A story about struggling to find food, being harassed by local human village and being forced to flee would be more of a dlaish origin. Investigating a ruin and getting pwned by a mirror? Does that define the Dalish? It was more like a crappy side quest.

[Dayshadow]

Wulfram wrote...

I like City Elf and Dwarf Noble the best. I think Dwarf Noble is particularly well written, with lots of opportunity given to allow the player to define their character.

I really dislike the Mage origin, because it railroads your character pretty horribly if you're not willing to join Jowan's harebrained scheme. I find the DC very restrictive too - you can be a thug, a stupidly naive thug or a complaining thug.

Would you rather be a beggar or professional **** sucker? That seemed to be the only other things dusters did beside being criminals.

[Wulfram]

Dayshadow wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I like City Elf and Dwarf Noble the best. I think Dwarf Noble is particularly well written, with lots of opportunity given to allow the player to define their character.

I really dislike the Mage origin, because it railroads your character pretty horribly if you're not willing to join Jowan's harebrained scheme. I find the DC very restrictive too - you can be a thug, a stupidly naive thug or a complaining thug.

Would you rather be a beggar or professional **** sucker? That seemed to be the only other things dusters did beside being criminals.

I'd prefer to have some option other than professional murderer.  Perhaps that simply means I don't want to play a dwarf commoner, but it still results in me disliking the origin.

[Giggles_Manically]

Top Tier: Dwarf Commoner Dwarf Noble, City Elf.

Ok tier: Human Noble

Meh Tier: Mage, Dalish Elf.

[Corker]

Dayshadow wrote...

Dalish elf at 3? It's not even an origin. There is nothing in that supposed origin that let's the player identify with what it means to be dalish.  A story about struggling to find food, being harassed by local human village and being forced to flee would be more of a dlaish origin. Investigating a ruin and getting pwned by a mirror? Does that define the Dalish? It was more like a crappy side quest.

You, uh, know that the origin starts off with the PC out hunting, where they encounter some humans who are going to cause them problems one way or another?  Kill 'em and their village comes looking; let 'em go and they'll be back.  And their clan is fleeing at the end of the origin.  Pretty much exactly what you outlined.

The search for their history and artifacts is kind of a hugely important thing for the Dalish, too.  So yes - investigating the ruin is a big deal.  Had the eluvian not been corrupted, it would have been an absolutely epic find for them.

That said? As much as I thoroughly enjoyed my DE *playthrough,* I don't find the origin as strong as the others.  It has its moments, particularly the departure from the clan, but it doesn't have (for me) the same emotional impact as the DC's Proving, fighting with your mom as a HN, a CE gutting Vaughan, or Bhelen's treachery to a DN.  Maybe if Tamlen *really* makes an impression on you, it works better...

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I'd list, in order of my favorites,



1. Mage origin, human

2. Dwarf Noble/Casteless being even at 2.

3. Human noble

4.City Elf

5. Dalish elf



I've made several attempts to play the elf origins, but i find them lacking, and can't really get into playing an elf. If dwarves could do magic, dwarf mage would be number 1 for me.

[mousestalker]

Before I learned to solo I couldn't really play the dwarf origins. The stories are great, and I loved coming back to Orzammar. It's just that when I was teamed with anyone taller than Morrigan or Leliana, I'd end up chatting with them a lot, usually in the middle of combat.



That was less of a problem with elves and humans.

[Addai]

Dayshadow wrote...
Dalish elf at 3? It's not even an origin. There is nothing in that supposed origin that let's the player identify with what it means to be dalish.  A story about struggling to find food, being harassed by local human village and being forced to flee would be more of a dlaish origin. Investigating a ruin and getting pwned by a mirror? Does that define the Dalish? It was more like a crappy side quest.

Wow, excuse me while I re-adjust my irony meter.

The very first thing you do in the origin is encounter humans who end up turning their village on you to hound you out of that part of the forest.

The mirror, and the ruins showing Tevinter statues together with elven artifacts, is a foreshadowing of the deeper lore the whole game is built on.  Seen in that light, the Cousland drama is a crappy side quest in comparison (note that I am not saying that it is).

[Dayshadow]

Corker wrote...

You, uh, know that the origin starts off with the PC out hunting, where they encounter some humans who are going to cause them problems one way or another?  Kill 'em and their village comes looking; let 'em go and they'll be back.  And their clan is fleeing at the end of the origin.  Pretty much exactly what you outlined.

Uh, you do know that you didn't hunt anything and the clan leaves no matter what, right?  You do know that you, as the player never hunt anything and never experience any direct threat or bigotry from a human?

Sorry, but going into a cave and turning up sick at your camp does not put me in the shoes of the dalish.  The player is told what it means to be a dalish via codex entries, you never experience it.  Why do the dalish hate humans, why do humans hate dalish? How is their methods of survive a threat to humans?  As a player, what makes you identify with that hatred?  City Elf did it well enough. The Dalish origin is akin to having an Orlesian noble origin where you go to a carnavale and a group of darkspwn attack.  Duncans sees you in action and conscripts you. The end.  Oh, but you got to buy 5 pairs of pretty shoes for your self or date at the beginning and that's important to Orlesians. Give me a break.   

Modifié par Dayshadow, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:52 .

[Dayshadow]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I'd list, in order of my favorites,

1. Mage origin, human
2. Dwarf Noble/Casteless being even at 2.
3. Human noble
4.City Elf
5. Dalish elf

I've made several attempts to play the elf origins, but i find them lacking, and can't really get into playing an elf. If dwarves could do magic, dwarf mage would be number 1 for me.

When you saw the city elf get knock out cold - LIGHTS OUT!!! - by a mere backhanded slap, a mere flick of some lesser noble's henchman's wrist, you lost all respect for the city elf, right?  It took me 2 weeks of therapy for me to get over that and muster the nerve to continue after being made to look like a weak pathetic wimp.

[Dayshadow]

Addai67 wrote...

Dayshadow wrote...
Dalish elf at 3? It's not even an origin. There is nothing in that supposed origin that let's the player identify with what it means to be dalish.  A story about struggling to find food, being harassed by local human village and being forced to flee would be more of a dlaish origin. Investigating a ruin and getting pwned by a mirror? Does that define the Dalish? It was more like a crappy side quest.

Wow, excuse me while I re-adjust my irony meter.

The very first thing you do in the origin is encounter humans who end up turning their village on you to hound you out of that part of the forest.

The mirror, and the ruins showing Tevinter statues together with elven artifacts, is a foreshadowing of the deeper lore the whole game is built on.  Seen in that light, the Cousland drama is a crappy side quest in comparison (note that I am not saying that it is).

You don't play that.  No human villager kidnaps your sister or whatever and kills her. You don't steal crops from human farms to earn their anger.  Whatever comes of the two humans is something going on in the background.  You're too busy being pwned by a mirror.

[ejoslin]

Wulfram wrote...

Dayshadow wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I like City Elf and Dwarf Noble the best. I think Dwarf Noble is particularly well written, with lots of opportunity given to allow the player to define their character.

I really dislike the Mage origin, because it railroads your character pretty horribly if you're not willing to join Jowan's harebrained scheme. I find the DC very restrictive too - you can be a thug, a stupidly naive thug or a complaining thug.

Would you rather be a beggar or professional **** sucker? That seemed to be the only other things dusters did beside being criminals.

I'd prefer to have some option other than professional murderer.  Perhaps that simply means I don't want to play a dwarf commoner, but it still results in me disliking the origin.

well, for dwarf casteless female, rica makes it VERY clear that she's selling her body so you don't have to.  it's only because of what she's doing that you have the chance to be a thug rather than a prostitute.

[Addai]

Dayshadow wrote...

You don't play that.  No human villager kidnaps your sister or whatever and kills her. You don't steal crops from human farms to earn their anger.  Whatever comes of the two humans is something going on in the background.  You're too busy being pwned by a mirror.

Seeing the Black City and fighting darkspawn... that's not plot central?

[Corker]

Dayshadow wrote...

Corker wrote...

You, uh, know that the origin starts off with the PC out hunting, where they encounter some humans who are going to cause them problems one way or another?  Kill 'em and their village comes looking; let 'em go and they'll be back.  And their clan is fleeing at the end of the origin.  Pretty much exactly what you outlined.

Uh, you do know that you didn't hunt anything and the clan leaves no matter what, right?  You do know that you, as the player never hunt anything and never experience any direct threat or bigotry from a human?

Sorry, but going into a cave and turning up sick at your camp does not put me in the shoes of the dalish.  The player is told what it means to be a dalish via codex entries, you never experience it.  Why do the dalish hate humans, why do humans hate dalish? How is their methods of survive a threat to humans?  As a player, what makes you identify with that hatred?  City Elf did it well enough. The Dalish origin is akin to having an Orlesian noble origin where you go to a carnavale and a group of darkspwn attack.  Duncans sees you in action and conscripts you. The end.  Oh, but you got to buy 5 pairs of pretty shoes for your self or date at the beginning and that's important to Orlesians. Give me a break.   

Wow.  Your argumentative tone and entirely subjective experience TOTALLY convince me of your point of view.  I was wrong, so VERY WRONG and obviously have been blind but now I SEE.  My own experiences mean NOTHING; I was FOOLING MYSELF.  I'll... I'll have to go lie down for a bit.  The paradigm shift, it's so dizzying.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Seeing the Black City and fighting darkspawn... that's not plot central?

The problem is that it's an isolated event, it has no bearing on the rest of the game, at least not directly.
Had the Dalish Origin been in Zathrian's clan, then that would have peaked my interest. It would have made the quest far more personal and we could have had a closer interaction with Zathrian, a character that could have been developped a bit more.

Imagine being raised all your life to venerate and admire a man said to have reclaimed the immortality and glory of your race, only to find out that he is a liar who is partially responsable for the suffering of your clan. That's just so much wasted potential, it makes me sad.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 décembre 2010 - 12:44 .

[Beechwell]

Dayshadow wrote...
You don't play that.  No human villager kidnaps your sister or whatever and kills her. You don't steal crops from human farms to earn their anger.  Whatever comes of the two humans is something going on in the background.  You're too busy being pwned by a mirror.

Since my clan at least seemed to try to stay clear of humans I don't think direct confllict with humans is a defining, or even common, aspect of being Dalish. What one does experience in the origin however is the tightly knit community unit of your clan, which I thought worked rather well, and the realisation that your people's history may hold more dark secrets than they want to know - which can serve as a good motivation to learn more about the world outside your clan.

On the other hand the human noble origin I find offers very little incentive for the PC to want to join the Grey Wardens. Wouldn't he much rather want to carry on the Cousland family and seek revenge on Howe than fight some yet faceless enemy that the king is apparently dealing with already?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Dayshadow wrote...

When you saw the city elf get knock out cold - LIGHTS OUT!!! - by a mere backhanded slap, a mere flick of some lesser noble's henchman's wrist, you lost all respect for the city elf, right?  It took me 2 weeks of therapy for me to get over that and muster the nerve to continue after being made to look like a weak pathetic wimp.

I lost respect for the city elf the moment she walked out of her house and into the alienage. Being somehow related to this multitude of cringing cretins was enough to write off any possibility of taking this character seriously.

I mean, that moron and his wife that were going off to Ostagar with their young daughter, first example. He has to know that taking his nubile young daughter to Ferelden's largest encampment of sexually frustrated men is a really bad idea. Yet he is too stupid/proud to leave her with relatives to earn her keep, or look for some other means to keep his daughter from becoming camp candy?

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Seeing the Black City and fighting darkspawn... that's not plot central?

The problem is that it's an isolated event, it has no bearing on the rest of the game, at least not directly.
Had the Dalish Origin been in Zathrian's clan, then that would have peaked my interest. It would have made the quest far more personal and we could have had a closer interaction with Zathrian, a character that could have been developped a bit more.

Imagine being raised all your life to venerate and admire a man said to have reclaimed the immortality and glory of your race, only to find out that he is a liar who is partially responsable for the suffering of your clan. That's just so much wasted potential, it makes me sad.

The Dalish being who they are, my Dalish PC felt betrayed by Zathrian too.  The clan is not your primary identity but being Dalish.

I also felt it gave a personal edge to the main quest.  Even before seeing Tamlen again- which was the single most wrenching scene of all my playthroughs- my PC wanted payback.