54 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkalezth]

If someone doesn't know it:

Kaedrin's PrC Pack

Kaedrin's pack adds a lot of things to the game, not only new classes, feats and spells, but also fixes lots of bugs. Many people consider it a must-have, even if not making use of the custom content.

However, many single player modules aren't compatible with it. Apart from encouraging module builders to make their modules compatible, I'd like to make a list with the compatible and incompatible modules.

My knowledge of the toolset is, at best, very limited, so I need help to make the list. If you know about the compatibility of a module, please tell.

Compatible Modules

A Fairy Tale
Against the Cult of the Reptile God
Battle of the Builds, version 1.23.1
Betrayal
Edinmoor
FRW Character Creator
Icewind Dale
Isle of Shrines
Legacy of White Plume Mountain
Mask of the Betrayer
Moonshadows
Nihil Trilogy: Awakening
Nihil Trilogy II-Chains of Misfortune
OC
Path of Evil
Risen Hero
Ruins of the Sun God
Seasonal NWN2 Egg Hunt Game
Serene
Shadow Thief: Crimmor (not yet released)
Shaar Moan
Sheep and Stone
Shrouded Sun
Storm of Zehir
Subtlety of Thay
The Caravan Club
The Corruption of Kiahoro
The Dana'an Unvanquished
The Halls of Hamhock
The Last Days of the Raven
The Last of the Danaan
The Wizard's Apprentice 2
These Dark Days of Waiting
Thesk - Adventurers in Mosshold
Traveller
Trial and Terror (works with Kaedrin's version 1.33)
Trinity
Vordan's Hero Creator

Incompatible Modules

Conan Chronicles 1 - The Barbarian Chronicles
Fallen House Celofraie
Harp & Chrysanthemum
Islander
JEGs Training module
Misery Stone
Mithdradates' Hall of Training
MotB Makeover SoZ Edition
Mysteries of Westgate
OC Makeover SoZ Edition
The Maimed God's Saga

I've played some other modules, but I'm not sure of their compatibility. I'll edit the original post as (if) the list grows bigger.

If someone plans on playing a module and (s)he's not sure about the compatibility, this could be a good place to ask.

I'd also like to ask module builders to state in their modules' descriptions if they're compatible, or if there can be some sort of conflict.

I'll only post modules which compatibility or lack of has been proved or specifically mentioned by authors or players. There is a whole lot of modules out there, but I have no clue on their possible compatibility.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:21 .

[nicethugbert]

To add, it's easy to make your module compatible with Kaedrin's: http://nwn2customcon...ll-instructions



It also has custom armors and let's you craft missle ammo and monk gloves. There is a reason why it has 9.95 score with 193 votes.

[Gilradthegreat]

Also to add, if you are going to make your mod compatible, CHECK YOUR 2DAs!



Particularly spells.2da, as issues with 2da conflicts generally aren't all that visible so its easy to assume everything's working fine after a cursory glance. In my experience a broken spells.2da usually breaks reserve feats and custom spells (I've run into more than a few mods that have partial Kaedrin support, if you haven't guessed)

[PJ156]

Gilradthegreat wrote...

Also to add, if you are going to make your mod compatible, CHECK YOUR 2DAs!

Particularly spells.2da, as issues with 2da conflicts generally aren't all that visible so its easy to assume everything's working fine after a cursory glance. In my experience a broken spells.2da usually breaks reserve feats and custom spells (I've run into more than a few mods that have partial Kaedrin support, if you haven't guessed)

To expand on this can I ask.

If I have made no modification to the basic toolset in my mod except to add a few screens and a couple of music files will adding this pack cause conflict? Where would the spell 2Da conflict come in and how would I set about troubleshooting such a problem?

PJ

[M. Rieder]

I really want Kaedrin's to work with The Wizard's Apprentice II. I am hoping to get through development without messing with feats, spells, class .2da files. I have modified my placeables .2da, but that shouldn't be a problem, right. It seems like it shouldnt.

[Arkalezth]

I assume the first one isn't compatible then (to add it to the list)?

Can someone answer PJ's question? I don't know much about 2das and the like, that's why I never know if a module is compatible or not, unless it's specifically mentioned.

[Gilradthegreat]

iirc, I think spells.2da is the only one modified, but if you want to be certain you could download Kaedrin's pack and root around for any other 2da files. If you find a 2da file, it means you would have to make sure there is not conflict between it and your mod.

[PJ156]

Thankyou,

So having not messed with the spells 2da I can assume this will not conflict. I can see no reason not to do this then and all three of my mods will be compatible with this at next release.

PJ

[Shaughn78]

This list is the "common" 2das that kaedrin's pack uses.
If any of the below 2das have been modified then it can/will cause conflicts with kaedrin's material.

-armorrulestats
-baseitems
-classes
-cmi_options
-cmi_spellbook
-cmi_spellbonus
-cmi_spellbook_count
-crafting
-crafting_index
-des_crft_scroll
-des_crft_spells
-domains
-feat
-hen_companion
-iprp_feats
-metamagic
-nwn2_deities
-packages
-poison
-polymorph
-race_feat_drow
-race_feat_imaskari
-racialsubtypes
-spells
-spelltargets
-vfx_persistent
-visualeffects

If only the package 2da has been modified, (often modified for companion levelup guides for feats and skills) I know kaedrin has offered in the past to add your lines to his 2da. It was done for Dirtywick's Subelty of Thay games.

It also modifies a number of the class base feats and numerous class package feats and skills.
-cls_bft_(class)  -bonus feats (ie fighter every even level & bonus epic feats)
-cls_ft_(class)   -avaliable feats, base feats and level specific feats for classes
-cls_sk_(class) -avaliable/class skills
-PackSK(package)  -recommended skill progression for chosen package
-PackFT(package) -recommended feat progress for choosen package

Modifié par Shaughn78, 14 décembre 2010 - 04:02 .

[The Fred]

Presumably, though, anything *without* custom content of its own will automatically be compatible with mods like Kaedrin's?

When (and if) I (eventually) release my mod, it unfortunately *won't* be compatible with Kaedrin's, but that's because it's based in a custom setting which will have content specifically tailored to it. Since I'll be removing certain classes etc anyway, allowing a load of other D&D ones to be added is not really what I want anyway (though I'm not making it incompatilbe deliberately, ofc). However, for pure D&D-based, and especially FR, mods, it makes a lot of sense to keep it compatible if you can (though usually this means not modifying those 2das, or at least prducing a merged one).

However, compatibility is an issue in its own right, Kaedrin's or not. The fact that no class packs etc work with each other basically stinks, and is probably the reason so few exist (and that for the most part, we have a small number of large mods). As good as Kaedrin's may be, it's basically monopolised the game.

Modifié par The Fred, 14 décembre 2010 - 04:05 .

[The Fred]

Oh, of course. I guess if you've changed those, it won't work. I know I've had to resort to using them for certain pieces of custom content.

[Shaughn78]

Additional games



Subtlety of Thay

Trial and Terror, works with kaedrin's 1.33

[Arkalezth]

Thanks, added. I'll add PJ's modules as compatible too, let me know if otherwise.

@Shaughn: Then I assume that, generally speaking, a module that comes with one (or more) of those 2da files won't be compatible, right?

Modifié par Arkalezth, 14 décembre 2010 - 04:58 .

[PJ156]

Arkalezth wrote...

Thanks, added. I'll add PJ's modules as compatible too, let me know if otherwise.

@Shaughn: Then I assume that, generally speaking, a module that comes with one (or more) of those 2da files won't be compatible, right?

Mine are not yet. I am updating in the early new year. I will post you once it's done.

PJ

[Arkalezth]

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you.

[manageri]

Subtlety of Thay's compatibility is also outdated.

[Arkalezth]

Are previous versions of Kaedrin's available to download?

[Shaughn78]

Arkalezth wrote...

Thanks, added. I'll add PJ's modules as compatible too, let me know if otherwise.

@Shaughn: Then I assume that, generally speaking, a module that comes with one (or more) of those 2da files won't be compatible, right?

Generally that will be true. Some of them may cause conflicts that aren't noticed.

The biggest 4 to look for are:

classes; Feats; Packages; Spells;

Having one of these editted in a HAK without kaedrin's content will remove large portions of his work.

[DJ Doc]

hmmm I wonder why no one uses diff and patch and a little batch file to create compatible 2da files on the fly that's what I did wayyyy back when I merged Kaedrin's and Races of Faerun

[nicethugbert]

DJ Doc, can you elaborate a little on that?



Incidentally, I get the impression people are not following the link to the install instructions.

[DJ Doc]

I think you refere to the Kaedrin's Module builder instructions could be that some just don't understand what to do and don't dare to ask ;-)



But that's not my point right now I just assume they get that part right.



The Problem I was talking about is conflicting 2das.



Well can a builder expect players to merge conflicting 2da content by themselfs?

Most of this players aren't builders or PW admins who know how to work with 2da files so it would be sound to asume that it's one more thing the builder has to take in account.



Let me just step into the Module builder boots for a moment here. What I do is I compare my 2da s to vanilla (nwn2 MotB + SoZ) and then I'm done right?

Well not so.Plenty of SP players do use Kaedrin's stuff it's simple for 'em to install (as soon as they figured out were to put that Dialog.tlk file) and just works in vnilla.

My nice only accounting for vanilla module will break there download copy and play happy world.



As a vanilla only builder who doesn't know Kaedrin's work in and out I placed no hooks in my module so I break a lot of his Pack (as did MoW) that's easy for a builder to fix as you pointed out earlier with the link to the install instructions and can even be retrofited in.



When I (as a Builder) am ignorant to the K Pack or just think that a spell should be done differently and mine should overwrite what the user likes best (also known as the versin he has in overwrite) I'm asking for trouble.



Kaedrin did good with his cmi_options file to change stuff that is not to everyones taste (or p'n'p clean) in a accesable way and sound advise to all builders who just can't help changing already esteblishe stuff around but that's me getting off topic again...





Were's the Problem with 2da conflicts and what can be done?



It's shooting a moving target as Kaedrin is (thankfully) adding to his work all the time. So how can we hit that target? Have a look at diff and friends http://www.gnu.org/software/diffutils/



Let's assume that as a good builder I reserved my section of 2da space in the wiki (is that still around?) I shouldn't have conflicts in the first place.

But I need to check on install time to be sure and depending how skilled I am I can come up with some automatic conflict solving.

Here comes diff and patch aka as diffutils into play http://www.gnu.org/software/diffutils/

It's what developers are doing all the time when hammering out software projects and it can also be used for Module updates just diff directory-with-version-1 directory-with-version-1.1 and here's your

nice little update :-)



But back to the 2das

So let's say we don't overwrite any of caedrin's 2da stuff. All we have to do is merge ours and his together. That's what patch can do.



Step by step:

1. make a diff between our whole 2da files, file per file with the vanilla 2das

2. have a batch file that looks vor 2das that are named as ours are in the override folder and if

3a. it finds one or more it applys the patches, writes a log and makes a backup of the unpatched 2das

3b. it finds none, installs our 2da hak pack

3c. if patch fails create a bug report that the user just have to send out to us (the builder)

4. player plays mod and gives a 10!





p.s.: Sorry if this doesn't make much sence my english already went to bed 2 hours ago

[nicethugbert]

What I wanted you to elaborate on is how do you do diffs? What program? Etc.

[DJ Doc]

As I posted before http://www.gnu.org/software/diffutils/

here's a little howto http://stephenjungel...en-minutes.html

[The Fred]

This is not dissimilar to what I was pushing for a while back. If anyone's played BG, there was an awesome utility called WeiDU which would intelligently patch things when you installed a mod. I even went so far as to make a demo program which would do the same for NWN(2) but alas, my programming skills weren't really up to it (many years of NWN scripting has left me hard, cunning and creative but completely lacking in "real" programming experience) and what with my other projects I've kinda let it fall by the wayside. If we could introduce one system or another it'd make life a lot easier, because for all their 3D graphics and toolsets, NWN1 and 2 are still behind their predecessor BG in this respect.