115 réponses à ce sujet

[Sheepie Crusher]

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Why bother with the Collectors and the Human Reaper (with all the risk involved) when the Reapers could have just taken this hidden relay in?

Heck, why bother with Nazara's plan to indoctrinate the Rachni/build a Saren-Geth-Krogan coalition when the whole Reaper fleet could have just taken a slight detour and shown up?

Remember that we still don't know how much time has passed between ME 2 and ME 3,  it could have taken them a decade to get to the galaxy

[Ship.wreck_]

AntiChri5 wrote...

That might be what the Codex says. But the codex also says that thermal clips are thermal clips and not mags full of bullets. But from actually playing the game whe know what they really work like.

Thermal clips are heatsinks which modern guns cannot fire without.

They work exactly like magazines full of bullets, even including an ammo count. That was the point. But also a tangent.

In the first contact war the Turians attacked the humans because they were about to activate a relay without knowing what's on the other side... wich means they didn't need to go to the otherside to manually activate the other Relay.

But we don't know if it was a primary or secondary relay.

Yes we do its the destination relay. The primary relay is the one you're at. The reapers are in Darkspace so that's the primary relay.

So within the context of the Codex we have a contradiction. Either you don't need a relay active at your end destination to get there, OR your endpoint is automatically activated by your startpoint relay. Either way going to the Citadel Relay would have been un-necessary to start the invasion.

More assumptions. Why would the super secret space station galactic relay we aren't supposed to use or understand function exactly the same as the relays we are supposed to use every day.

Exactly they'd want theirs to work better not worse. Which further supports my point that they shouldn't need to activate it on site.

[Ship.wreck_]

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Why bother with the Collectors and the Human Reaper (with all the risk involved) when the Reapers could have just taken this hidden relay in?

Heck, why bother with Nazara's plan to indoctrinate the Rachni/build a Saren-Geth-Krogan coalition when the whole Reaper fleet could have just taken a slight detour and shown up?

Remember that we still don't know how much time has passed between ME 2 and ME 3,  it could have taken them a decade to get to the galaxy

Shepard would be all old.

EDIT They had to use some relay or Shepard woudl be dead before they got there...

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 13 décembre 2010 - 09:35 .

[hawat333]

It's just one of the numerous holes in the ME plot/lore. But well, sequels work this way nowadays.

[AntiChri5]

[quote]If they did take that flight they wouldn't make if for thousands of years[/quote]

There is not nearly enough evidence to state this. Like, at all. We have no information regarding Reaper engines.

[quote]if thats not the case the relay isn't neceassary by any means anyway.[/quote]

The wealth of strategical advantages has already been gone over in this thread.

[quote]The used the Citadel or another relay.[/quote]

Once more, stating speculation as fact.

[quote]Thats as in at least 2000 years possibly more[/quote]

But where the hell do you get this number? It is pure guess work.

[quote]you don't seem to be grasping the concepts here.[/quote]

You don't seem to be grasping the difference between your assumptions and actual facts.

[quote]You said it yourself, if you can win with one reaper (or even come close which it did) then it won't matter if all of your reapers are at reduced capacity, and it'll still be better if you have them all on hand.[/quote]

You would be halving the effectiveness of your whole army to win one battle which is already (seemingly) an easy win. This is retarded. Taking the Citadel is not the only battle they will have.

[quote]Our special forces are generally considered much better than our regular forces which are generally considered much better than most other peoples regulars... that doesn't mean we send one Marine Force Recon to invade Iraq. Point you don't attack the Citadel with one [/quote]

Now you compare the difference between a human soldier and a Reaper to the difference between a soldier and a better soldier? Really?

[quote]Point you don't attack the Citadel with one Reaper when you could have all the Reapers there without the relay even if one Reaper is better than most ships.[/quote]

You do when you only need one Reaper to win and moving them there costs something.

[quote]Your comparison has no bearing on the situation. Wether or not the Reapers need a relay is nothing like you saying the sky is green.[/quote]

You are making a claim for which there is not nearly sufficient evidence.

[quote]I already referenced my arguments and spelled them out for you since you're not getting them.[/quote]

You have repeatedly stated assumptions as facts.

[quote]Again doesn't adress the statement. Either you don't need an end point relay online, OR you don't need to activate it on site. Based on premises we see in the game, and either way ME1 didn't make any sense. You're saying you do need an endpoint relay online the Codex supports that, then you wouldn't need to activate it on site, that's the part you're not addressing. Support for that:



The Turians started the first contact war because Humans were activating a relay without knowing what's on the other side, that means the Humans didn't need to go to the other side, that means they didn't need to activate the second relay on site. That means endpoint relays don't need to be activated on site, that means Sovereign didn't need to activate Citadel Relay on sight.[/quote]

You are forgetting there are different kinds of Relays, and assuming that the citadel relay works exaclty the same as others.

[Sheepie Crusher]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Why bother with the Collectors and the Human Reaper (with all the risk involved) when the Reapers could have just taken this hidden relay in?

Heck, why bother with Nazara's plan to indoctrinate the Rachni/build a Saren-Geth-Krogan coalition when the whole Reaper fleet could have just taken a slight detour and shown up?

Remember that we still don't know how much time has passed between ME 2 and ME 3,  it could have taken them a decade to get to the galaxy

Shepard would be all old.

EDIT They had to use some relay or Shepard woudl be dead before they got there...

40 is not old

[AntiChri5]

Exactly they'd want theirs to work better not worse. Which further supports my point that they shouldn't need to activate it on site.

Even Ignoring technological differences between local relays and galaxy spanning one, The citadel is desinged to not be a relay until a special little button is pressed. Usually, the vanguard sends a signal and has the Keepers turn over control of the citadel to it. Then the vanguard puts it into "relay mode".



The Citadel can function as a relay, but it is very different to other relays.

[AntiChri5]

Shepard would be all old.

More assumptions. Shepard is a zombie cyborg. We do not even know if he/she still ages.

[BiancoAngelo7]

OMG why are there all these threads where people think they know everything goin on in ME3 so they jump to conclusions and deem everything that has happened so far "useless" or "irrelevant". Just wait for the frikin game people, i dont know...wait and see what turns the story takes to explain what happens?? Geez...

It's not like they revealed some huge plot surprise...did you expect the Reapers to never make it to the galaxy?? THAT would have been an epic ME3.

*Shepard flips a switch* "NOW those pesky reapers will never get here!! Good thing theres no epic battles or hard interesting choices to make! That woulda been stressful!"

Cmon people...

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 13 décembre 2010 - 10:03 .

[Alienmorph]

The Citadel was the perfect trap, as said in ME1 by Shepard itself... in one hit, reapers kill all the governements and assume all the most useful informations about the galactic civilization. But it would have been ridiculous that the Citadel was the only access. From the few things we know, every reaper may have its own mass accelerator integrated in its structure. In fact, it's a quite terrirying perpective...

[Ship.wreck_]

[quote]AntiChri5 wrote...



[quote]If they did take that flight they wouldn't make if for thousands of years[/quote]
There is not nearly enough evidence to state this. Like, at all. We have no information regarding Reaper engines.

They're not as good as using relays, that's all we need to know.


[quote]if thats not the case the relay isn't neceassary by any means anyway.[/quote]
The wealth of strategical advantages has already been gone over in this thread.

If they can travel the distances in such a short time relays aren't that important for them. The only difference a relay makes is the time it takes to travel, and if you're right that they just flew in, then it's not a very big difference.


[quote]The used the Citadel or another relay.[/quote]
Once more, stating speculation as fact.

It's speculation that makes alot more sense than they don't need relays.


[quote]Thats as in at least 2000 years possibly more[/quote]
But where the hell do you get this number? It is pure guess work.

It takes a loooong time to travel without relays, that's why they wanted the Citadel relay. Otherwise they wouldn't care for any relay.


[quote]you don't seem to be grasping the concepts here.[/quote]
You don't seem to be grasping the difference between your assumptions and actual facts.

You're mistaking your magical Reaper engine which isn't even hinted at as fact. My assumptions have alot more suport than yours.


[quote]You said it yourself, if you can win with one reaper (or even come close which it did) then it won't matter if all of your reapers are at reduced capacity, and it'll still be better if you have them all on hand.[/quote]
You would be halving the effectiveness of your whole army to win one battle which is already (seemingly) an easy win. This is retarded. Taking the Citadel is not the only battle they will have.

No, it's just the most important.


[quote]Our special forces are generally considered much better than our regular forces which are generally considered much better than most other peoples regulars... that doesn't mean we send one Marine Force Recon to invade Iraq. Point you don't attack the Citadel with one [/quote]
Now you compare the difference between a human soldier and a Reaper to the difference between a soldier and a better soldier? Really?

You're taking it too literally. The point is no matter how much better your Reaper is than their ships you don't send just one when there's another option.


[quote]Point you don't attack the Citadel with one Reaper when you could have all the Reapers there without the relay even if one Reaper is better than most ships.[/quote]
You do when you only need one Reaper to win and moving them there costs something.

Whatever it costs all the Reapers gurantees a win. Gurantee'd wins beat guestimate wins, "Well uhhhh... maybe one of us can win, so let's not bother sending more..." Yeah, I don't think so.


[quote]Your comparison has no bearing on the situation. Wether or not the Reapers need a relay is nothing like you saying the sky is green.[/quote]
You are making a claim for which there is not nearly sufficient evidence.

There's more evidence to support Reapers need relays than your claim that they dont.


[quote]I already referenced my arguments and spelled them out for you since you're not getting them.[/quote]
You have repeatedly stated assumptions as facts.
[quote]Again doesn't adress the statement. Either you don't need an end point relay online, OR you don't need to activate it on site. Based on premises we see in the game, and either way ME1 didn't make any sense. You're saying you do need an endpoint relay online the Codex supports that, then you wouldn't need to activate it on site, that's the part you're not addressing. Support for that:

The Turians started the first contact war because Humans were activating a relay without knowing what's on the other side, that means the Humans didn't need to go to the other side, that means they didn't need to activate the second relay on site. That means endpoint relays don't need to be activated on site, that means Sovereign didn't need to activate Citadel Relay on sight.[/quote]
You are forgetting there are different kinds of Relays, and assuming that the citadel relay works exaclty the same as others.

If their personal relay is different they would make it better, not worse.[/quote]

Modifié par Ship.wreck , 13 décembre 2010 - 10:07 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Why bother with the Collectors and the Human Reaper (with all the risk involved) when the Reapers could have just taken this hidden relay in?

Heck, why bother with Nazara's plan to indoctrinate the Rachni/build a Saren-Geth-Krogan coalition when the whole Reaper fleet could have just taken a slight detour and shown up?

Remember that we still don't know how much time has passed between ME 2 and ME 3,  it could have taken them a decade to get to the galaxy

Shepard would be all old.

EDIT They had to use some relay or Shepard woudl be dead before they got there...

40 is not old

HAHAHAHA It is for a soldier!

[Ship.wreck_]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Exactly they'd want theirs to work better not worse. Which further supports my point that they shouldn't need to activate it on site.

Even Ignoring technological differences between local relays and galaxy spanning one, The citadel is desinged to not be a relay until a special little button is pressed. Usually, the vanguard sends a signal and has the Keepers turn over control of the citadel to it. Then the vanguard puts it into "relay mode".

The Citadel can function as a relay, but it is very different to other relays.

Once again they'd make theirs work better not worse. They'd want it to be MORE reliable not LESS.

[Ship.wreck_]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shepard would be all old.

More assumptions. Shepard is a zombie cyborg. We do not even know if he/she still ages.

HAHAHAHA Now you're assuming he doesn't age and saying I shouldn't assume he does???

You're assuming as much as I am, you're just assuming wayyyyy crazier things and saying my much more logical assumptions don't make sense.

I think if Cerberus included an immortality feature they would've mentioned it. Although that would change Shepards relationship with what's her name... Asari chick.

[Ship.wreck_]

Alienmorph wrote...

The Citadel was the perfect trap, as said in ME1 by Shepard itself... in one hit, reapers kill all the governements and assume all the most useful informations about the galactic civilization. But it would have been ridiculous that the Citadel was the only access. From the few things we know, every reaper may have its own mass accelerator integrated in its structure. In fact, it's a quite terrirying perpective...

Now THAT makes alot more sense than what's his name's assumption that they have super engines that render Relays unnecessary!

Nice!

[AlexMBrennan]

Well, the Shepard we see could be a clone, or an identical great-great-...-great-grandson, or he could have travelled through time... or the reapers could be using a DEM drive.

[Prior to the release of this trailer I was sure that the journey would take the reapers a few centuries; just like you're not going to build a Maglev to get the mail.]

[Ship.wreck_]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Well, the Shepard we see could be a clone, or an identical great-great-...-great-grandson, or he could have travelled through time... or the reapers could be using a DEM drive.
[Prior to the release of this trailer I was sure that the journey would take the reapers a few centuries; just like you're not going to build a Maglev to get the mail.]

Hahahaha! Exactly! That's what I'm going to call AntiChris's magic reaper engine from now on! The DEM drive!

[AntiChri5]

[quote]They're not as good as using relays, that's all we need to know.[/quote]

They are not as good as using relays, but that doesn't mean it is not possible, which is what you are saying.

[quote]If they can travel the distances in such a short time relays aren't that important for them.[/quote]

Not if that journey has associated costs.

[/quote] The only difference a relay makes is the time it takes to travel, and if you're right that they just flew in, then it's not a very big difference.[/quote]

I am not arguing that they flew in, only that we don't have enough evidence to say they didn't.

[quote]It's speculation that makes alot more sense than they don't need relays.[/quote]

It's still speculation, when all i am doing is countering speculation. And if Reapers need relays then how did theu put the relays there in the first place? They are capable of thqt kind of travel without relays. What isn't known is what it will cost them (in terms of time and other resources).

[quote]It takes a loooong time to travel without relays, [/quote]

No, it takes US a long time to travel without relays. We don't know what it costs them.

[quote]that's why they wanted the Citadel relay. Otherwise they wouldn't care for any relay.[/quote]

They would still be interested in the relays.

[quote]You're mistaking your magical Reaper engine which isn't even hinted at as fact. My assumptions have alot more suport than yours.[/quote]

No i am not. I never stated it as fact, i first presented it as a question. A hypothoses. A possibility. I am not saying that that is how they got here, only that we can't say it wasn't. Everything after was extending the example which i never stated as fact.

[quote]You're taking it too literally. The point is no matter how much better your Reaper is than their ships you don't send just one when there's another option.[/quote]

Not when that option costs more then it is worth and victory is assured any way.

[quote]Whatever it costs all the Reapers gurantees a win. Gurantee'd wins beat guestimate wins, "Well uhhhh... maybe one of us can win, so let's not bother sending more..." Yeah, I don't think so.[/quote]

Soveriegn thought it had an assured victory. It would not have commited itself if it didn't. Why weaken your entire army, when you already have an assured victory.

[quote]There's more evidence to support Reapers need relays than your claim that they dont.[/quote]

But we know for a fact that they do not. Mostly because they had to get there to put the relays there.

[quote]If their personal relay is different they would make it better, not worse.[/quote]

All relays are their personal relay. And it is better. It has better range. But increased functionality in one area does not equal increased functionality in all others. Especially when it is designed as something else.

[quote]HAHAHAHA It is for a soldier! [/quote]

People live for more then 150 years in the ME verse. 40 is the new twenty. Have you even met Zaeed?

[quote]HAHAHAHA Now you're assuming he doesn't age and saying I shouldn't assume he does???



You're assuming as much as I am, you're just assuming wayyyyy crazier things and saying my much more logical assumptions don't make sense.



I think if Cerberus included an immortality feature they would've mentioned it. Although that would change Shepards relationship with what's her name... Asari chick.[/quote]

I never said he did not age! Only that we do not know if he still does!

[quote]Now THAT makes alot more sense than what's his name's assumption that they have super engines that render Relays unnecessary! [/quote]

You realise that it only supports my central arguments and destroys yours, right?

[Bogsnot1]

Ship.wreck wrote...
The collectors seemed not to be part of the invasion plans but a separate side project. They were making a new (ridiculous) version of a Reaper not helping the existing Reapers get into the galaxy.

After the Keepers were modified not to accept the signal, And Nazara/Sovereign was destroyed, the only way for the portal between Dark Space and the Citadel could be opened, is for them to build another Reaper, and manually open the portal the same way Nazara/Sovereign did.
As for the new reaper being ridiculous.  Shepard showed that humans had great potential due to the fact he was able to get a bunch of alien races to band together under his banner to end the current threat. This definately got the attention of the rest of the reapers. Until that happened, I would dare say that the Asari would have been at the top of their list due to their natural biotics, ability to breed with anything, and that they have been around in the citadel for the longest, and probably a lot closer to unlo9cking its secrets than any other race.

[Sheepie Crusher]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Why bother with the Collectors and the Human Reaper (with all the risk involved) when the Reapers could have just taken this hidden relay in?

Heck, why bother with Nazara's plan to indoctrinate the Rachni/build a Saren-Geth-Krogan coalition when the whole Reaper fleet could have just taken a slight detour and shown up?

Remember that we still don't know how much time has passed between ME 2 and ME 3,  it could have taken them a decade to get to the galaxy

Shepard would be all old.

EDIT They had to use some relay or Shepard woudl be dead before they got there...

40 is not old

HAHAHAHA It is for a soldier!

Every soldier in the Alliance has genetic enhancements MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:O

[supakillaii]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...
The collectors seemed not to be part of the invasion plans but a separate side project. They were making a new (ridiculous) version of a Reaper not helping the existing Reapers get into the galaxy.

After the Keepers were modified not to accept the signal, And Nazara/Sovereign was destroyed, the only way for the portal between Dark Space and the Citadel could be opened, is for them to build another Reaper, and manually open the portal the same way Nazara/Sovereign did.
As for the new reaper being ridiculous.  Shepard showed that humans had great potential due to the fact he was able to get a bunch of alien races to band together under his banner to end the current threat. This definately got the attention of the rest of the reapers. Until that happened, I would dare say that the Asari would have been at the top of their list due to their natural biotics, ability to breed with anything, and that they have been around in the citadel for the longest, and probably a lot closer to unlo9cking its secrets than any other race.

I don't think Asari were viable since

“Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”

I think humans were on top of the tunr-into-reaper list after they learned of them, it's just that they were transferred to the ****ing-annoying-species-that-will-be-killed list

Modifié par supakillaii, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:05 .

[Ship.wreck_]

Now THAT makes alot more sense than what's his name's assumption that they have super engines that render Relays unnecessary!





You realise that it only supports my central arguments and destroys yours, right?



I'm not staying up to adress all of this but I'll say this before I crash.



Appearently you don't grasp my arguments OR YOURS. Your argument was that Reapers have an engine which allows them to travel relay distances without using relays. My argument was that they had to have used a relay either the Citadels or some other we didn't know about.



If they each have a built in Relay that they used, that would be some other relay we don't know about not your Super engine. The original point I was adressing is valid and supports my argument not yours. Mwahahahhaahaha!

[Ship.wreck_]

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Why bother with the Collectors and the Human Reaper (with all the risk involved) when the Reapers could have just taken this hidden relay in?

Heck, why bother with Nazara's plan to indoctrinate the Rachni/build a Saren-Geth-Krogan coalition when the whole Reaper fleet could have just taken a slight detour and shown up?

Remember that we still don't know how much time has passed between ME 2 and ME 3,  it could have taken them a decade to get to the galaxy

Shepard would be all old.

EDIT They had to use some relay or Shepard woudl be dead before they got there...

40 is not old

HAHAHAHA It is for a soldier!

Every soldier in the Alliance has genetic enhancements MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:O

Your uber evil laugh pwns, I conced defeat to you. 40 is not necessarily "all old"

[Ship.wreck_]

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Sheepie Crusher wrote...

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

Why bother with the Collectors and the Human Reaper (with all the risk involved) when the Reapers could have just taken this hidden relay in?

Heck, why bother with Nazara's plan to indoctrinate the Rachni/build a Saren-Geth-Krogan coalition when the whole Reaper fleet could have just taken a slight detour and shown up?

Remember that we still don't know how much time has passed between ME 2 and ME 3,  it could have taken them a decade to get to the galaxy

Shepard would be all old.

EDIT They had to use some relay or Shepard woudl be dead before they got there...

40 is not old

HAHAHAHA It is for a soldier!

Every soldier in the Alliance has genetic enhancements MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:O

Your uber evil laugh pwns, I conced defeat to you. 40 is not necessarily "all old"

[Ship.wreck_]

Now THAT makes alot more sense than what's his name's assumption that they have super engines that render Relays unnecessary!





You realise that it only supports my central arguments and destroys yours, right?



I'm not staying up to adress all of this but I'll say this before I crash.



Appearently you don't grasp my arguments OR YOURS. Your argument was that Reapers have an engine which allows them to travel relay distances without using relays. My argument was that they had to have used a relay either the Citadels or some other we didn't know about.



If they each have a built in Relay that they used, that would be some other relay we don't know about not your Super engine. The original point I was adressing is valid and supports my argument not yours. Mwahahahhaahaha!