323 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabariel]

Random tidbit: Your current LI will express a tiny bit of sympathy if they're in your party when you talk to Shianni in the alienage. Though, oddly, if you say you'll talk more about it later it never comes up again



On topic: I disagree with Wynne's advice and lectures 99% of the time and yet I don't dislike her. Not sure why that is exactly. Maybe... she reminds me of someone I used to know?

[Tellervo]

I found Wynne to be terribly unsympathetic to a mage, downright offensive, pushing you to fit into this particular mold of what she thinks you should be. There's almost a degree of hero worship there, and yet she still treats a mage Warden like a child.... Its as if you're supposed to make up for all of her own shortcomings. As much as I dislike her, everything that made me dislike her was so incredibly well done that I can't help but think it must all be intentional, and so she's a well crafted character.

[atunnei]

I agree with KoP, she fails as your Sage fountain of wisdom.



I can tolerate her if I'm not playing a Mage, if I am I usually kill her at the tower.

[mousestalker]

As a CE, she has an epic fail moment with Caladrius. It's more a flaw of the writing, but you are rescuing your father and friends. Unlike every other origin, the slaver mission is personal for the CE. And all Wynne has to say about Caladrius' proposal is something about blood magic.



You can argue that that is lazy writing, but all it would have taken would be for her to say "These are your people. You can't be considering this?" Wynne, as written, is a bit clueless.

[BelgarathMTH]

I like Wynne, because I'm getting up in years myself, and it's nice to have a companion to adventure with who doesn't seem like a kid to me. It's also nice that she's still a little older than I am, and it's great to have some mentoring from one mature person to another.



On a different note, I wonder if the devs were thinking of Kai Wynne from Deep Space Nine when they wrote and named her. She's just like Kai Wynne, only sincere instead of being a power-hungry hypocrite like that character was.



Are there any other Star Trek fans in the forum who have made this connection? I can't help calling her "Kai Wynne" every time I play, especially since some of the hats you can put on her are almost identical to the hats that the Bajoran Kai priestesses wore on the show. Even the default costume colors are the same.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

kI find her endless plattitudes and advice to be incredibly annoying. Like KoP said, she fails miserably in the wise mentor department, being more a self-righteous, nosy old bat.



It was my mage playthrough I developed contempt for her. My first time I didn't mind her, except her nosing into the Warden's personal relationships. Though I dislike her, some of my Wardens are well-disposed towards her. Mainly, my DC who doesn't know any better, really.

[Ryzaki]

Honestly though considering all the writing fumbles (apparently Alistair/Zevran at 100 Friendly could care less about you nearly getting raped/having your bride get nearly raped on your wedding day), Morrigan saying you should've killed yourself rather than live in the circle (Yeah I'm going to hop right onto that Morrigan), Morrigan suggesting you sacrifice your own father and friends for power, Morrigan suggesting leaving Redcliffe a valuable resource in the hands of undead, Morrigan suggesting going after Loghain knowing there's a bounty on your head. I mean really. The landsmeet letting a dalish/city elf determine their fate (I'm not even going to get into a mage/dwarf PC).

[Face of Evil]

I like this thread. Wynne gets too much hate, in my opinion.



She definitely scored some extra points when discussing my past; when I commented that I would gladly kill Vaughan all over again, she approved and said she could hardly fault such an attitude.



Certainly she's very useful as a party member, although I didn't have her with me all of the time. I liked that she got along well with Leliana and Alistair. I liked most of her dialogue with the other characters. Perhaps I like Wynne most because I was playing a good character and she never disapproved of most of my decisions.



I got a little irritated with her when she advised me to break it off with Leliana, but later on I realized she was really trying to do what was best for myself and Leliana. She forced me to ask myself if I wasn't being selfish; Grey Wardens die young, after all, and it's not as though we could ever settle down and have a family.



Later on, when I learned about how killing an Archdemon will require the death of a Grey Warden, I realized how sound that advice was. Had I actually sacrificed myself to slay the Archdemon, my death would have absolutely destroyed Leliana.



Maybe if I was willing to play a blood mage, I might have a different opinion. But her prejudice against blood magic was never really an issue for me.

mousestalker wrote...

As a CE, she has an epic fail moment with Caladrius. It's more a flaw of the writing, but you are rescuing your father and friends. Unlike every other origin, the slaver mission is personal for the CE. And all Wynne has to say about Caladrius' proposal is something about blood magic.

I've been through that scene as a CE character myself and I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. There's nothing in her comment that indicates she does not care about the elven slaves; indeed, she also objects to allowing Caladrius to take them away.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 13 décembre 2010 - 08:46 .

[Zjarcal]

Face of Evil wrote...

I've been through that scene as a CE character myself and I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. There's nothing in her comment that indicates she does not care about the elven slaves; indeed, she also objects to allowing Caladrius to take them away.

It's not that she doesn't care about the elven slaves, it's that she interjects before you even make a comment on whether you will agree with Caladrius or not. Not to mention that if you tell her to shut up when she interjects, she will have a MASSIVE disapproval even if you DON'T take Caladrius' offer.

In fact, and I'm not 100% sure here, she has a bigger disapproval if you tell her to shut up and don't take the offer, than if you don't tell her to shut up but DO take the offer.

And since I'm already here...

Because this is technically a fan thread I'll keep my hate to a minimum, lest I'm accused of trolling, but while Wynne always annoyed me, I was able to brush her aside as just a silly woman who thought she knew everything and didn't know squat.

It was until I actually played a blood mage and she tried to rat me out even after I had saved her stupid circle that I officially hated her.

[Ryzaki]

You mean modded your game so she would do so

[Zjarcal]

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean modded your game so she would do so

There's no official word on why that scene was taken out, but considering that it introduces a game breaking bug, that would be my guess.

Wynne's attitude there is very fitting to her character. So yeah, I don't mind using a mod that restores a deleted scene to judge Wynne's character.

[Sialater]

I like Wynne. I don't mind her lectures or her advice.

[Face of Evil]

Zjarcal wrote...

It's not that she doesn't care about the elven slaves, it's that she interjects before you even make a comment on whether you will agree with Caladrius or not.

Eh. Zevran and Alistair also chime in with comments to the effect of "You're not seriously thinking about this?" when Caladrius first makes his offer to take the elven slaves, even though I hadn't responded with so much of a "meep." I had no more intention of letting Caladrius take the elves than I did of letting Caladrius conduct the ritual, but I wasn't offended by their objections. If anything, I'd be more offended if they didn't object to such a horrible decision.

I know the game generally follows a formula of "PC makes decision, NPC objects". It's only jarring in this case because they pipe up before you make your decision.

Zjarcal wrote...

In fact, and I'm not 100% sure here, she has a bigger disapproval if you tell her to shut up and don't take the offer, than if you don't tell her to shut up but DO take the offer.

I'm pretty certain that's not the case. And as you said, you're not 100 per cent on that.

[Zjarcal]

Where's ejoslin when you need her? She knows how the approval drop goes in there.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:18 .

[ejoslin]

The -18 approval drop if you tell her to shut up even if you don't do the ritual? Yeh, she doesn't like being told to shut up at ALL!

Edit: I try to stay out fan threads when i truly dislike a character.  She talks because she likes the way she sounds, even if she's saying absolutely nothing. 

Edit: You do get a higher disapproval if you go through with the ritual, even if you don't tell her to shut up first.

an interesting thing, though -- she disapproves just as highly of telling her to keep her opinions to herself (dec_extreme) as she does to the ritual itself.

*cry* Looking at this conversation, there are all sorts of approval bugs.  I'm pretending i didn't see them.  Lalalalala~!  but Wynne's approval is not bugged.

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:25 .

[ArawnNox]

At the risk of sounding like a hater in a fan thread, my opinion of Wynn continues to drop each time I play the game. I loved having her along in my first games because she was a good character and I played morally good characters. I also didn't know anything about the game or it's world, and much of her advice is very geared towards delivering exposition.

Now, when I know more, and I know what my characters would know, her advice comes off as... "Yeah, I know all this, lady, you don't need to remind me." I also picked up on her projecting her ideas of what a Grey Warden is on you and it totally got under my skin at how naive it sounded. "Heroes of the people" and all that hoo haa, when she has no idea what it takes to actually BE a Grey Warden. >.>

I'll stop now before I get too rant-y.

[Face of Evil]

Zjarcal wrote...

So yeah, I don't mind using a mod that restores a deleted scene to judge Wynne's character.

But it's not representative of her actual in-game character. It's like rooting through David Gaider's trash, finding a rough draft of The Calling with an alternate ending where Maric murders Fiona and then declaring you hate Maric because he killed Fiona even though that's not what happened in canon.

It's possible the scene was cut because the devs realized it didn't really fit Wynne's character.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:35 .

[Ryzaki]

That's what I figured Wynne isn't that petty.

Also: The woman has her bias like everyone else. Her extreme line just happens to be blood magic.

And the game breaking bug probably could've been fixed had the moment been pivotal to her character.

That said she only attacks you if you refuse to be handed over to the templars (an Iogoir (Spelling I know) and Irving, and heck everyone there attack you too.)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[erilben]

Zjarcal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You mean modded your game so she would do so

There's no official word on why that scene was taken out, but considering that it introduces a game breaking bug, that would be my guess.

Wynne's attitude there is very fitting to her character. So yeah, I don't mind using a mod that restores a deleted scene to judge Wynne's character.

I think they took it out on purpose. Some time before the game came out Bioware said how they were going to make conquences and restrictions on the blood mage, but then they decide against it . Probably didn't fit in with the PC being a Mary Sue.

[Reaverwind]

Face of Evil wrote...

I got a little irritated with her when she advised me to break it off with Leliana, but later on I realized she was really trying to do what was best for myself and Leliana. She forced me to ask myself if I wasn't being selfish; Grey Wardens die young, after all, and it's not as though we could ever settle down and have a family.

Later on, when I learned about how killing an Archdemon will require the death of a Grey Warden, I realized how sound that advice was. Had I actually sacrificed myself to slay the Archdemon, my death would have absolutely destroyed Leliana.

I don't find Wynne's advice sage or sound. It's the equivalent of telling a RL soldier or even someone with terminal illness they need to push everyone away because death is in their future. Utter BS. You're not being selfish caring for someone, and your character certainly isn't forcing his/her love interest to care for him/her in return.

[ejoslin]

well, it's an interesting thing as it's fully in the toolset -- no note as to why it was cut either. My guess as to why it was cut has more to do with decisions made regarding the requirements for the landsmeet than Sheryl Cree deciding that actually was NOT in character.

The problem is, when it's restored, if you fail the persuade checks, you end up killing both the templars and mages. If the decision was made later that all the treaties had to be done before moving on (which I believe it was), you're stuck. It would just make for a bit more coding work to have it work with both the templars and mages not fighting, and they ran out of resources. There are other things left out because of this (especially with Loghain).

Modifié par ejoslin, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:41 .

[Ryzaki]

I didn't see her advice that way. I saw it as her telling the PC that he/she should be focused on the blight. Not particularly good advice to be sure but she's not telling the PC to push everyone away.

Ah I see.

I still can't get overly mad because of it personally /shrug

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 décembre 2010 - 11:39 .