150 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRevanchist]

Nashiktal wrote...

In a sense there is. Since a Paragon is "by the book", Shep would contact the council and at least allow himself to be advised on what is to be done. Is it the smart thing to do? That is debatable, but it is what a "by the books" character would do.

I'm not asking for a good or evil, nice and naughty bar. I'm just pointing out the Flaw in biowares system.

Perhaps they could trim the fat, and make P and R more important by only awarding the points in more important and proper scenarios, but that is just conjecture. I'm just trying to clarify here.

See thats the thing...that IS the choice I wanted Shepard to make because thats exactly what he would have done in my world. But that wasn't an option sadly. My Shepard is very loyal to the Council whenever possible and does not like doing things at least without their knowledge. Sadly however the game does not allow to do these sorts of things which is your point that I agree with. My Shepard is willing to do the "renegade" side of things but only if it's a last (or only) resort. Yet he is very kind and does not like sacrificeing his morals, as proof by the Collector base and his refusle to save it. He does not think the benefits are worth the risk in the hands of someone like The Illusive Man. Given the choice Shepard would rather give to the Council to use as they see it, but again thats not a choice so my Shepard must improvise.

Like Mihaloke tells me "Do you still remember what color your blood is Shepard?" My Shepard greatly respects the Councils athority and will ahear to them whenever possible. Which might sometimes lead to conflicts within himself between doing the Council's wishs and his own moral code. He never even considers defying the Council and considers Tela Vasir and Saren Arterius disgraces unworthy of the title Spectre. He is nice whenever possible but won't let it impead his assinment from the Council.

Modifié par kylecouch, 16 décembre 2010 - 12:47 .

[Hathur]

Good job again on the 2nd video. Look forward to your commentary in future vids.

[RiouHotaru]

Alright guys, third video is go. Council arguments are up. Discuss.

[CroGamer002]

Yet another good job.
Also you should have mentioned that a lot of aliens hate humans for not saving the Council.

[TK Dude]

Good job on the third video.

Though, you should've made a difference between saving the Council or killing them in ME2 even if it didn't have bigger consequences in the game.

[TheRevanchist]

Would you consider doing the Genophage or Geth problem? while not as severe as the CB these issues are still debated rather hotly on the forums...great job on the Council btw, was hoping you would use Sun Tzu in it. Wars can we won or lost based upon the morale of an army and this was the forfront of my mind when making that choice. It is easy to prove that numbers alone do not win battles.



Looking at the Three Kingdoms period alone provides three seperate examples of superior numbers loseing due to poor moral. Guan Du, Chi Bi, and Hei Fei. All three times the army with greater numbers loses because their moral was totaly destryed by the smaller force.



There are of course many other real world examples of this but I don't wish to go over so many things. The point is keep up the good work!

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Decents videos. But why didn't you mention the fact that leaving the Geth to smash the DA might be a dangerous thing. Once the DA is blown up, what's stopping them from simply divide some of their ships to assist sovereign?

[Nashiktal]

Divide some of their ships? That whole fleet smashing DA could hit right into the Alliance backside, that wasnt the whole geth fleet that I am aware of.

[SlipperehPuppeh]

These are really great videos. Thank you for making them.

[RiouHotaru]

kylecouch wrote...

Would you consider doing the Genophage or Geth problem? while not as severe as the CB these issues are still debated rather hotly on the forums...great job on the Council btw, was hoping you would use Sun Tzu in it. Wars can we won or lost based upon the morale of an army and this was the forfront of my mind when making that choice. It is easy to prove that numbers alone do not win battles.

Looking at the Three Kingdoms period alone provides three seperate examples of superior numbers loseing due to poor moral. Guan Du, Chi Bi, and Hei Fei. All three times the army with greater numbers loses because their moral was totaly destryed by the smaller force.

There are of course many other real world examples of this but I don't wish to go over so many things. The point is keep up the good work!

I considered doing the Geth issue or the Genophage...but the Geth one feels fairly clear-cut.  Renegades cannot call rewriting the Heretics "brainwashing" or claim that blowing them up will let them "die with dignity" because they're not human, those standards do not apply.  Also, the issue of rewriting versus destroying doesn't seem limited to Paragon or Renegade.  I've seen people on either side argument each stance.  So like the Rachni queen, it feels like a personal preference issue.

As for the Genophage...I'm not sure if there's really even an argument for keeping the data versus destroying it, is there?  At least not in mind.  Keeping the data doesn't mean you use it, but at least you have it on-hand in case the issue should ever come up.

[Sable Rhapsody]

First of all, good to hear your voice again, Riou

Mesina2 wrote...

Yet another good job.
Also you should have mentioned that a lot of aliens hate humans for not saving the Council.

That's a bit metagamey, though, since you don't find that out until the second Mass Effect, though it's still a valid point.  Even the new Council hates you.  Ouch.  It might not make a difference gameplay wise in ME2, but it gives Shep's return to the Citadel a whole different color.

[jbblue05]

Correct me if I'm wrong but SHepard can close and open Citadel arms .



Shepard has to open the Citadel Arms so the 5th fleet can aid the DA and engage SOvereign.



SHepard could've easily closed the Citadel arms with the Geth and DA while the 5th fleet engages SOvereign.



I don't see how that's a flaw in sacrificing the Council

[Vaenier]

Awsome videos. That was a very good point on the council decision. I myself did it because you had to kill the geth anyway. its better to have all your fources attacking at once instead of half and half, each getting butchered. but the moral was completely right too. it really becomes a no brainer for that one, you get both extra firepower and increased moral.

for the second one, i have to disagree. do you know how easy it is to commit terrorism? any ship, even a private transport, with engines at full burn will destroy a colony. the impact could shatter the crust. you can drop a tungsten rod from orbit and the resulting release of energy when it impacts would be larger than a nuke. telling the terrorists they can get a free pass with hostages is a bad idea. you have to show them they will be stopped, that you wont negotiate with terrorists. letting them run free is just irresponsible. They dont even need funding. they could self sustain their terrorist acts with just a small mining operation.

[supakillaii]

So you're not going to do a video of the Heretic Choice? :smith:

Perhaps Garrus' loyalty? Or Tali's? Mordin's?

[Nashiktal]

jbblue05 wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong but SHepard can close and open Citadel arms .

Shepard has to open the Citadel Arms so the 5th fleet can aid the DA and engage SOvereign.

SHepard could've easily closed the Citadel arms with the Geth and DA while the 5th fleet engages SOvereign.

I don't see how that's a flaw in sacrificing the Council

The flaw is that, at the time, you didn't know you could control the citadel arms. You only knew you would have complete control after being told as such once you upload the virus.

[RiouHotaru]

supakillaii wrote...

So you're not going to do a video of the Heretic Choice? :smith:
Perhaps Garrus' loyalty? Or Tali's? Mordin's?

Hahah, wow.  No idea people cared that much.  Most folks were telling me to just do the Collector Base.  I suppose I could do the Geth Question.  That would require a different sort of video though, but I could do it, since you folks are clamoring for it.

These videos were primarily intended as defenses to Paragon reasoning.  Which is why decisions like the Genophage or Loyalty missions never comes up, because those don't have Renegades crying favoritism.

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 17 décembre 2010 - 03:15 .

[supakillaii]

Yeah well, Genophage is kind of an unknown ground and the Heretic question doesn't really have paragon choice (if you look at it realistically I mean, if you look at it how BW did it (rewards), it's just stupid)

[PauseforEffect]

Always figured that humanity trying to take over galactic concerns was like having a dictator try to rule the whole world. Never worked out. In a way, the Council seems similiar to U.S. government with power balanced out between different people unless I'm really off in my analogies.

Figured that if Alliance failed to take down Sovereign there would be need for the Council to rally the other races

[Mr. Gogeta34]

That's fair reasoning though I did choose "Concentrate on Sovereign." Because the Tsun Tsu quote can be directed at Sovereign as well and in arguably better fashion.  Kill Sovereign, and the Heretic Geth lose motivation (it is their god afterall).

Additionally on the human/aliens side, moral can be spurred still further in taking vengence for the loss of the council (should it have even happened) than trying to protect them.


More tidbits:

1. None of the council members ejected (primarily because of point 2)

2. Admiral Hackett blocked all communication with the Destiny Ascension, not telling the Council to
escape (surely the DA had escape pods but they were actually waiting for assistance).

3. In Mass Effect 2, should you Concentrate on Sovereign. Admiral Hackett is the one accused by locals
of letting the Council die... not Shepard.

4. In Mass Effect 2, you're considered a hero to humanity (whereas humanity sees you as a sellout/traitor
and the keeper of a bad status quo if you made the paragon choice there).

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 17 décembre 2010 - 06:16 .

[jbblue05]

Nashiktal wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong but SHepard can close and open Citadel arms .

Shepard has to open the Citadel Arms so the 5th fleet can aid the DA and engage SOvereign.

SHepard could've easily closed the Citadel arms with the Geth and DA while the 5th fleet engages SOvereign.

I don't see how that's a flaw in sacrificing the Council

The flaw is that, at the time, you didn't know you could control the citadel arms. You only knew you would have complete control after being told as such once you upload the virus.

yes you do Vigil explains it to you and SHepard opens the arms to expose Sovereign

[Nashiktal]

True, but you can't close that big ass hole in the middle of the citadel.

[TheRevanchist]

RiouHotaru wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

So you're not going to do a video of the Heretic Choice? :smith:
Perhaps Garrus' loyalty? Or Tali's? Mordin's?

Hahah, wow.  No idea people cared that much.  Most folks were telling me to just do the Collector Base.  I suppose I could do the Geth Question.  That would require a different sort of video though, but I could do it, since you folks are clamoring for it.

These videos were primarily intended as defenses to Paragon reasoning.  Which is why decisions like the Genophage or Loyalty missions never comes up, because those don't have Renegades crying favoritism.

Lol I didn't mean to come off as a raving loon about the Geth question. I know it isn't really the same type of thing....but...there is one choice I REALLY wana see...the Project Overlord choice.

Modifié par kylecouch, 18 décembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[supakillaii]

So. . . . . You making another one?

[TheRevanchist]

supakillaii wrote...

So. . . . . You making another one?

It says CB is WIP...I'm guessing he is trying very hard to come up with a logical reason for NOT keeping the base aside from "I dont trust TIM" lol

[Vaenier]

kylecouch wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

So. . . . . You making another one?

It says CB is WIP...I'm guessing he is trying very hard to come up with a logical reason for NOT keeping the base aside from "I dont trust TIM" lol

Wait, is there even one? There must be, I just cant think of it right now...