150 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRevanchist]

Vaenier wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

So. . . . . You making another one?

It says CB is WIP...I'm guessing he is trying very hard to come up with a logical reason for NOT keeping the base aside from "I dont trust TIM" lol

Wait, is there even one? There must be, I just cant think of it right now...

I believe every choice in life is reinforced by logic to some extent...it's just a matter of finding it.

[CroGamer002]

^I don't know.

Giving Reaper technology to pro-human terrorist organization and what we saw on that base we only saw "how to create a Reaper" technology.





I don't think it's smart to give that technology to anyone.

[DarkDoz]

Good Job making the Video's

Modifié par DarkDoz, 24 décembre 2010 - 10:50 .

[Hyper Cutter]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Then there's the whole matter about extra content, Paragons recieved bonus content and important choices impacted things in Mass Effect 2. What did a Renegade recieve? They recieved almost an identical playthrough to the default, my "choices" didn't mean anything. A Paragon who always picks the top option will recieve new stuff, meet people and always have things go their way.

Turns out killing the sources of future content will prevent you from seeing said content, who knew?

Nashiktal wrote...

True, but you can't close that big ass hole in the middle of the citadel.

The hole in the Presidium ring? It's got covers too, iirc.

[TheRevanchist]

Mesina2 wrote...

^I don't know.
Giving Reaper technology to pro-human terrorist organization and what we saw on that base we only saw "how to create a Reaper" technology.


I don't think it's smart to give that technology to anyone.

Oh I agree totaly...I never save the base. But many renegades seem to find the paragon option totaly illogical and simply "wishful thinking" and seem to think the galaxy is totaly screwed if you dont save it...even though there is no evidence to support it's even useful. For all we know it's simply a Reaper factory.

[TheRevanchist]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Then there's the whole matter about extra content, Paragons recieved bonus content and important choices impacted things in Mass Effect 2. What did a Renegade recieve? They recieved almost an identical playthrough to the default, my "choices" didn't mean anything. A Paragon who always picks the top option will recieve new stuff, meet people and always have things go their way.

Turns out killing the sources of future content will prevent you from seeing said content, who knew?

This...

[huntrrz]

Vaenier wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

So. . . . . You making another one?

It says CB is WIP...I'm guessing he is trying very hard to come up with a logical reason for NOT keeping the base aside from "I dont trust TIM" lol

Wait, is there even one? There must be, I just cant think of it right now...

Even if you DID trust TIM you could reasonably decide that the risk of indoctrination is too great to risk letting anyone try to explore the base.

[adam_grif]

kylecouch wrote...

Hyper Cutter wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Then there's the whole matter about extra content, Paragons recieved bonus content and important choices impacted things in Mass Effect 2. What did a Renegade recieve? They recieved almost an identical playthrough to the default, my "choices" didn't mean anything. A Paragon who always picks the top option will recieve new stuff, meet people and always have things go their way.

Turns out killing the sources of future content will prevent you from seeing said content, who knew?

This...

The complaint is that the Renegade decisions are always the wrong ones, and that the Paragon player always gets the bonus content and never suffers any consequences. The renegade choice is sometimes the cautious one, i.e. I can't trust the Rachni queen. But then you let them go, and it turns out that you were preventing a threat that never existed, the Rachni queen is all sunshine and roses.

This is to say, that the ME series punishes pragmatism and rewards blind idealism.

They could easily include bonus content for Renegade players, i.e. you kill some character and then in the sequel their younger brother comes to take revenge on you. Saying "lol if you kill everyone you shouldn't get anything new" is a ridiculous position.

Even if you DID trust TIM you could reasonably decide that the risk of
indoctrination is too great to risk letting anyone try to explore the
base.

Avoiding indictrination is easy if you're not an idiot. You can try:

- Wearing noise cancelling headphones (that block out all sounds)
- Wearing hardsuits at all times that block out the infrastound (vacuum sealed so now sound can get in or out)

Neither of those two things were practised by the Science teams, who took no precautions at all when working on the Reaper. If works comes to worst and that isn't good enough, you can:

- USE TELEPRESENSE. As in, remote controlled robots do all the moving around, collecting samples etc, and then the scientists study them remotely without ever coming on board the Base. We know telepresense is used in Eezo mining thanks to the Codex.

The meme on these forums that Indoctrination can't be prevented so simply is absurd, for that to be true the Reapers would need magical superpowers.

Modifié par adam_grif, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[supakillaii]

They use magnets for indoctrination.

[huntrrz]

adam_grif wrote...

Avoiding indictrination is easy if you're not an idiot. You can try:  [snipped]

You make good points.  But, you can still make the argument and base your decision on the risk posed.  Cerberus obviously did not take the proper precautions - what if the next batch THINKS they've covered all the bases but missed something?  Then you have indoctrinated Reaper agents with close ties to Cerberus/Alliance/Citadel loose in their organizations to wreak mischief.

[adam_grif]

They use magnets for indoctrination.

F'in' magnets, how do they work?

But, you can still make the argument and base your decision on the risk posed. Cerberus obviously did not take the proper precautions

They did not, and the fact that they did not always struck me as something of a plot hole. In their defense it was a Dead Reaper, they didn't realize internal systems were still active beyond the ME core. Of course, they should have ASSUMED that it was going to be, before they found out for sure.



TBH I'm not sure if there is much a risk with the base anyway. There's no reason for them to have indoctrination signals in the collector base since the collectors are already a modified cybernetic slave-race, and they never expected anybody to reach it (same reason they didn't have any internal defenses). Although Reapers themselves have indoctrination built in, not all Reaper tech does (Citadel, mass relays, thanix gun, ME technology in general does not indoctrinate).



The other thing is, even if it does indoctrinate, unless the Reaper in question is directly controlling a person, it seems like the "Default indoctrination" just gets them turned into husks. We saw this with the Dragon's teeth recovered by people in the first ME game, the crew turned themselves into husks even though they're largely useless to the Reapers as husks (and would have been more effective as agents). The exact same thing goes for the Derelict reaper - the whole crew instead of becoming inside agents for the Reapers, just turned themselves into husks. There isn't anybody left alive on the base to direct any signals, and Harbinger's remote control seems to work through collector individuals, not machinery on the collector base (i.e. he may not be able to do anything there anymore). So a science team may well get killed when Cerb doesn't take the proper precautions, but as far as danger to the rest of humanity is concerned there's little or none that I can plausibly see.

[Katamariguy]

Another point in saving the council: If you leave the Destiny Ascension, there will be a huge geth fleet ready to shoot your fleet in the back while shooting at Sovereign.

[TheRevanchist]

Wow...still WIP? O.o

[Last Vizard]

implodinggoat wrote...

I released the Rachni in ME1 due to the permanence of the decision to exterminate their entire speciees.  I didn't necessarily believe that the Rachi were indeed trustworthy; but if you kill the queen then there's no way to undo that decision.

As for the Paragon and Renegade decisions not being fair, I don't think that both decisions necesarily need to give you some form of advantage so long as on the whole both the Paragon and Renegade paths give you a viable path to victory.

For example in ME2 if you're a Paragon you decide to blow up the Collector base at the end of the game (I did so because there was no chance in hell that I was going to entrust Cerberus with that sort of tech).  I think it would be totally appropriate if keeping the base gave Renegades an advantage that Paragons lack; but an advantage which some of humanity's potential allies may rightfully be frightened of.

So if you take the Paragon path you'll have an advantage when it comes to getting allies to help you destroy the Reapers; but if you take the Renegade path humanity itself will have more power, albeit power of a morally questionable nature which is likely controlled by the Illusive Man.

The way I figure it if you go Renegade Cerberus is going to be a more potent ally in ME3; but as a result of your loyalty to Cerberus the rest of the galaxy is going to be less sympathetic towards humanity.  So maybe if you save the Rachni in ME1; but proceed to side with Cerberus in ME2 and keep the Collector Base, the Rachni will decide they want nothing to do with you in ME3.

Very much doubt the Queen will turn on me, Rachni gave me their word..... they go back on that and i'll use Collector tech to kill them even if it costs me the galaxy.......

[RiouHotaru]

Sorry guys, I know you've been waiting for the Collector Base video. I've been VERY busy IRL, with family issues, and then the holidays, as well as job hunting.



In sort, while I'm trying not to make excuses, my actual life has to come before making a video. However, I realize that you all have been waiting quite patiently for me to release it. So, I'll starting recording audio today, and I'll do my best to see if I can't get my video uploaded within either today or tomorrow. Thank you for being so patient.

[NanQuan]

Nice videos. I enjoyed listening to them. Here's a suggestion if you're looking for any other aspects of the decisions to explore:

As a writer, I make my decisions based on the writing (primarily). I look at trends in the story, where the author seems to be leading the player. At certain times there are very telling clues as to what the writer's think is the most pragmatic solution. To use two of the topics you've dicussed: in the rachni decision the neutral option is to let her live.  In the council decision, the neutral option is to concentrate on soveriegn.  To game nudges you to make these decisions by giving you 2/3 of the choices leading a certain way. Though I will readily admit that looking at the writing seems to help the renegade argument that paragons are favored. The game tends to reinforce paragon decisions more heavily, i.e. your squadmates convos after the collector base, the way ppl talk after the rachni. Anyway, just something to consider.

Modifié par NanQuan, 05 janvier 2011 - 08:32 .

[Aggie Punbot]

You know, as a primarily renegade player I've never questioned the fact that if you choose to kill people in ME1, you won't get to see them in ME2. I mean, that's just logical. I'm not sure why other renegade players are complaining about that. You made a choice to kill people and you (the player) have to live with that decision.

That being said, it would ne nice if some of the paragon decisions in ME3 turned out to have negative consequences as well (I'm thinking of things like the Brother Burkel quest and Give The Troops Free Ale incident in Dragon Age here).

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 05 janvier 2011 - 08:58 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

RiouHotaru, if you need savegame with a soldier (saved before and after suicide mission, so i could replay it any time i want to) I can send it to you.

[xxLDZxx]

1. Queen

Every one deserves a second chance, maybe I have to kill the rachni in me3 or they help me so or so i have a mission more that renegade players dont have.

The background info you have on the rachni is nothing worth, history is write´en by the winners and if some in the council is deciding that rachni have a feet fetish it will stand in the books if its true or not.

2.Baalack

imagine a child murderer that is ready to kill one child and Hitler stand next to each other you have only one bullet who you do kill?

You know what both will do who is the bigger evil?



Baalack will do nothing?

he will teach other´s how to kill he will plan actions for somebody else.He gets a Hero who will insiper athers who cares about 5 lives when thousand are at stake?

yeh i know 1 dead is a tragic millions are a statistic but for me the millions have faces too.

3.council

who cares if the council is dead. sun zu only applies to human minds who know how aliens think.

Maybe its for them:ups councillor dead send the next one.

Send the fleet to kill the Geth and safe the DE to have a safe back and if needed a retreat way + reinforcements DE and thurian ships.

And this close the doors of the citadel thing great where did you know that you will win and that your ships dont have to retreat?

Are the renegade players thinking that the sov is some zombi ship and all the Geth will shut down after it gets destroyed.



Never go in a fight with a with only assault plan, always have retreat plan.



The renegade choice is the most stupid decision in the whole game.

Its only racist choise they are not humans kill them all.





4.Base

Tim has to often cheated my shep he cant be trusted.

And for all PPL that kill the queen but gave Tim the base:

"YOU are RASIST"



giant bug that coude bring the rachni wars back = bad

human lier that orders gros experiments on humans = good

[RiouHotaru]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

RiouHotaru, if you need savegame with a soldier (saved before and after suicide mission, so i could replay it any time i want to) I can send it to you.

Sadly, I only have the 360 version, so I steal my clips from YT videos.  Thanks though!

[ISpeakTheTruth]

As far as the Rachni go. Why are we going to punish someone for something that her people did before she was born? Should we kill everyone related to Hitler because of what he did? Of course not its insane.



Judge a person by what the person has done but don't judge them by what others did in the past and don't judge that person on a future that you can't predict.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The only one I disagree with is the council decision in the heat of the moment. But that ultimately hinges on how much of a threat you see the Reapers being. If the Reapers are a great threat, then destroying them would come first and then you'd pick up the pieces afterwards.

If they're not as big of a threat, then you'd preserve the status quo first. This choice wasn't about saving the council's institution, just those individual members.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 06 janvier 2011 - 01:12 .

[TK Dude]

 You know, I kinda lost interest the moment I knew your videos is defending Paragon decisions (Which is good BTW). What's next? Defending Elnora's decision?

[RiouHotaru]

TK Dude wrote...

 You know, I kinda lost interest the moment I knew your videos is defending Paragon decisions (Which is good BTW). What's next? Defending Elnora's decision?

No, I could, but that's clear-cut in either direction.  There's not really a need to defend Paragon reasonings there.  Besides, Paragons need some love.  And yes, I realize the Collector Base video isn't up as planned.  I'm having trouble finding some clips that'll actually work from Youtube.  For some reason Sony Vegas is being very selective on which ones work and which ones don't.

[CroGamer002]

Oh I'm so bumping this thread.

I'm still waiting for next video.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Download Youtube videos with DVDVideoSoft Free Studio.

I think they'll work with that downloader( I suggest highest quality).
Also I can give you links of one keeping the base decision.

Shepard argues not to keep base.
Shepard after Suicide Mission with destroyed base.

I can play out Suicide Mission again and record it for you with Renegade Shep I kept base.

Modifié par Mesina2, 27 janvier 2011 - 06:03 .