284 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKillerAngel]

It makes so sense for you to potentially wait a long time for a weapon to cool down when you can instantly cycle in a new heatsink and keep fighting. 

[BomimoDK]

Because, Where's the Battery/ammo. THIS is like magic!

[hong]

I suspect we're stuck with clips now, in any case.

However, I hope they change the specific numbers to make ammo less scarce for some weapons. It's annoying to have only 10 shots with a sniper rifle, and pick up just one more per clip. I get that they want to discourage camping or excessive dependency on one gun, but these numbers are just too low.

[Greatsultan]

How about a thermal clip/overheat hybrid system ?



You still use the thermal clip, and you can still shoot without it but with severe consequences, like lesser accuracy, lesser rate of fire, lesser demage, and of course, overheat if you shoot it too long without thermal clip.



oh, the only reason why people hate thermal clip because its "so FPS"

[Ezohiguma]

BomimoDK wrote...

Because, Where's the Battery/ammo. THIS is like magic!

Where was the battery/ammo before that? There wasn't any.

The reason why people are so pissed is simple.

Back in ME1 you could mod your rifle to a point where you could fire auto for minutes without overheating.

That is over now. Now you have to think and reload in time.

[Jonp382]

I dislike thermal clips because I tend to lean towards the slower firing sniper rifles. For other weapons it's less of a deal, but I really did enjoy the system in ME1 more with infinite ammo.(But limited heat capacity)

[Terror_K]

Because it makes no sense lore-wise for one. Secondly, not having to worry about ammo in the first game was kind of novel given the TPS combat.

[Khayness]

Because adopting ammo and lame "duck behind a bush, sweat out the bullets, get back to fight" mechanics from other TPS games will be adopted features, no matter how you try to explain lore-wise.

[TheKillerAngel]

Because it makes no sense lore-wise for one. Secondly, not having to worry about ammo in the first game was kind of novel given the TPS combat.

I similarly cannot imagine any serious military issuing weapons prone to failure due to overheating from regular use. It doesn't make any sense why you should wait potentially a long time for a gun to cool down when you can spend a fraction of that time replacing the gun's heatsink. Assuming that the heatsinks are reaching temperatures of hundreds of degrees Fahrenheit (As demonstrated by Zaeed, a "spent" heasink has at least temperature of the ignition point of gasoline, which is 246–280 °C or 475–536 °F).

Air-cooling down from a temperature like that takes much longer than the times shown in Mass Effect 1. A hot stove doesn't stay hot for only a few seconds. I could go on but I have all sorts of issues with the whole explanation for weapons in Mass Effect.

BomimoDK wrote...

Because, Where's the Battery/ammo. THIS is like magic!

Here's how I've always imagined it - each weapon has a "magazine" of heatsinks, if you will. Each heatsink allows you to fire a certain number of shots, and each weapon has a magazine that holds X heatsinks.

Take the Revenant for instance. One heatsink allows 80 shots before its heat capacity is reached. You can carry heatsinks equivalent to 480 spare shots. 480/80 means that the Revenant has a magazine capacity of 6 heatsinks.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 14 décembre 2010 - 10:35 .

[WidowMaker9394]

The thermal clips should speed up or instantly cool down the weapons. It made no sense that you couldn't fire your weapon no matter how long you waited in ME2.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

The problem is thus: in ME1, weapons would overheat, but when you got good enough equipment, you could literally just hold down the trigger and the weapons would NEVER overheat. Plus, you had infinite ammo, so even if your weapons did overheat, it would only be a very temporary thing.



ME2 then brought in the heatsink system to be like GoW, BUT they had a moronic in-game explanation for it, which essentially was "heatsinks means you can keep firing for a longer time which is better. Never mind that you can run out of ammo and that it actually lets for fire for shorter periods of time, IT'S BETTER!"

[Matchy Pointy]

I quite liked them as well, even though they don't make all that much sense lorewise, they did make the shooting more fun (for me atleast).

[TekFanX]

Actually I've got no problem with the game-mechanic, actually I like it.



The only thing I dislike about it is the lore-factor.

ME1 had a reason as for why weapons had infinite ammo with cooldown and then, in ME2 it's like it never happened.



Actually, the game could have pretended, that the whole thing came up in the two years between both games, but no: In the first mission, Shepard takes the first weapon in two years and recognizes that something is missing.

No interrupt like:

Shepard:"Hey, the gun doesn't shoot?! What's wrong with it?"

Miranda:"You'll need a thermal clip. Newest tech, more effective and far more flexible."

[Terror_K]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

I similarly cannot imagine any serious military issuing weapons prone to failure due to overheating from regular use. It doesn't make any sense why you should wait potentially a long time for a gun to cool down when you can spend a fraction of that time replacing the gun's heatsink. Assuming that the heatsinks are reaching temperatures of hundreds of degrees Fahrenheit (As demonstrated by Zaeed, a "spent" heasink has at least temperature of the ignition point of gasoline, which is 246–280 °C or 475–536 °F).

Air-cooling down from a temperature like that takes much longer than the times shown in Mass Effect 1. A hot stove doesn't stay hot for only a few seconds. I could go on but I have all sorts of issues with the whole explanation for weapons in Mass Effect.

And I cannot umagine any serious military suddenly deciding to limit themselves to relying on (and changing to) weapons that depend on a finite resource when the alternative is weapons that  can just keep firing without needing anything but what's already part of them (and blocks of metal that take an age to run out, but both systems have that so the point is moot).

Essentially they went from a weapons system that requires only one resource (metal blocks) to one that requires two (metal blocks and heat sinks). If soldiers don't have to worry about carrying around these things, running out of these things and changing these things at all, then it would be all the better. With short controlled bursts they could fire forever if pinned down and needing extraction without having to worry about running out of heat sinks (and when we're talking about being on different planets in space, extraction could take weeks, even months). When that happens, the guns can't even fire, which would never be an issue with the old system. It may not have been so bad if the guns incorporated a slower, back-up system whereby you could still shoot but your gun would overheat a lot faster (almost instantly) but that's not the case.

And on top of it all, despite it being a big step backwards, we're supposed to believe that this sweeping change completely took the entire known galaxy by storm and everybody pretty much instantly changed over within two years time and that the old one became completely extinct. We're supposed to swallow that Collectors all use the same system. We're supposed to believe that the poor thugs on Omega living on the streets made sure they got themselves new weapons rather than picking up some old, cheap ones. We're supposed to believe The Migrant Fleet made sure they completely restocked and upgraded their entire weapons loadout despite being short on resources and flying in ships that in some cases are barely holding together. We're supposed to believe that these things magically existed on a planet that hasn't been landed on for 10 years.

[SithLordExarKun]

Terror_K wrote...


And I cannot umagine any serious military suddenly deciding to limit themselves to relying on (and changing to) weapons that depend on a finite resource when the alternative is weapons that  can just keep firing without needing anything but what's already part of them (and blocks of metal that take an age to run out, but both systems have that so the point is moot).

Wow seriously? In a real military war soldiers would rather quickly change clips rather than waste precious seconds for their weapon to cool down. Seconds that can mean life or death.

You obviously have no military experience nor do you have combat training in real life.

[Forsythia]

Don't like the system, it turns Mass Effect more and more towards being a generic thirdperson shooter. And of course lorewise it makes no sense.

[Vengeful Nature]

The problem is that the high-grade weapons like the spectre gear in ME1 set everyone's expectations about how weapons behave in the ME universe. That was top of the line gear that you could fire for hours before having to cool off (let along the fact that, in gameplay terms, it was phat lewt in a tiered weapon system, which doesn't reflect how firearms really work).

In reality, the vast majority of weapons probably behave like the very early weapons, heating up very quickly and forcing the user to either wait ages for it to cool down when it overheats or maintain strict trigger discipline. In this respect, thermal clips are a massive improvement.

Having said that, I completely agree that a hybrid system would be the best. Go back to a heat monitor rather than an ammo counter and have clips be optional, not necessary, for when your weapon heat is high. You can still fire when you don't have any clips, but you have to wait for it to cool down if you don't use trigger discipline.

Add to that an upgrade system where you can tweak how your gun performs. For example, I would research mods, like you research upgrades in ME2, but you can apply them to any weapon in the Armoury, like the mod system in ME1, as well as different ammo types. Again, a hybrid system (although you wouldn't have an inventory, they would be applied on the Normandy or before missions). So I could have either;

- a gun that I have tweaked to build up heat slowly, but do less damage, like the weapons in ME1

or

- a gun that builds up heat quickly but does more damage, like the weapons in ME2

depending on what mods I apply to that weapon in the loadout screen.

So everyone gets their way.

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 14 décembre 2010 - 11:59 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

I don't mind, thermal clips is really low on things i want to be changed from ME2 to ME3.

[Terror_K]

Unless a weapon has been sabotaged, the amount of time a weapon takes to cool isn't that much different than the time it takes to change a clip. Most professional soldiers also don't just mindlessly and constantly spray bullets, generally instead firing in short, controlled bursts. The guns wouldn't overheat at all if they used that technique with ME1 weapons.

[Aigyl]

It was a clumsy retcon that could've been done much better story-wise, but for gameplay I think it's worth it, I much prefer ME2's ammo system to ME1's. There is a reason 99% of shooters use the ammo system after all.

[Jonp382]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

The problem is that the high-grade weapons like the spectre gear in ME1 set everyone's expectations about how weapons behave in the ME universe. That was top of the line gear that you could fire for hours before having to cool off (let along the fact that, in gameplay terms, it was phat lewt in a tiered weapon system, which doesn't reflect how firearms really work).

Not everyone plays with New Game+ or even reaches those levels.

[mopotter]

The only real thing I know about guns is how to shoot them. The only thing I dislike about the way ME2 is set up - My Shepard runs around in circles trying to find find ammo and she looks silly. I don't mind running out of ammo, but this is one and the only thing I liked in fall out better than ME2.
Either let me have all the ammo I need in the theory I have it on me, or let me find amo boxes not stuff scattered around the ground.  edit.  and now that I think about it, this probably has nothing to do with anything.  

Modifié par mopotter, 14 décembre 2010 - 12:13 .

[M8DMAN]

I hate the thermal clip system because it made some weapons useless do to the lack of ammo. The shotgun in ME was of my favorite weapons but in ME2 I barely got to use the thing.


I wish bioware would have went with a hybrid cooldown system.

Modifié par M8DMAN, 14 décembre 2010 - 12:22 .

[PiEman]

I'm good with a hybrid system, so long as they bring the look of the ME 1 shots back.



I'm currently going through another full playthrough (both games, eventually the third), and I already miss how they look.



Better than the glowing skittles that the ME2 guns fired.