284 réponses à ce sujet

[SithLordExarKun]

Terror_K wrote...
Most professional soldiers also don't just mindlessly and constantly spray bullets, generally instead firing in short, controlled bursts. The guns wouldn't overheat at all if they used that technique with ME1 weapons.

Thats assuming you even hit the target and other factors including distance, recoil and wind speed that could hinder your accuracy which causes you to miss, the more you miss the more your weapon heats up. We don't even know if ME1 weapons can really be fired in burst shots or single shots in real life, or if they have recoil like modern day weapons.

Heck the only way to actually analyze this is in ME1's clunky gameplay in which when i DO fire in burst shots, it takes a hell of a longer time to take down an enemy which realistically would give the enemy ample time to take me dow thus i had to fire in full auto.

[AntiChri5]

M8DMAN wrote...

I hate the thermal clip system because it made some weapons useless do to the lack of ammo. The shotgun in ME was of my favorite weapons but in ME2 I barely got to use the thing.


I wish bioware would have went with a hybrid cooldown system.

Your kidding, right?

Shotguns are fantastic.

[Jonp382]

M8DMAN wrote...

I hate the thermal clip system because it made some weapons useless do to the lack of ammo. The shotgun in ME was of my favorite weapons but in ME2 I barely got to use the thing.

I feel similarly. I love the shotgun in ME. It's not so effective at a distance but it sure does have great stopping power in close quarters. The one time I tried it in ME2, I didn't really like it. It could have very well been the lack of ammo.

PiEman wrote...

I'm good with a hybrid system, so long as they bring the look of the ME 1 shots back.

Better than the glowing skittles that the ME2 guns fired.

The visual and aural effects from the guns in Mass Effect are so badass, with the exception of maybe the flash. I would love to have them similar or back completely. Especially the sniper rifle. That sound makes my hair stand up.

[Annihilator27]

I dont know, I dont think the devs played it off well. Its still ammo.

[ReiSilver]

To respond to 'valuable seconds' I think this has been covered by reloading taking time* and that you have to drop into cover a lot to let your shields recharge anyway. The only time I had a problem with over-heat in ME1 was when an enemy tech over-heated it** the rest of the time I had no problem. I also was able to mod my pistol to fire all day by the end of my first play through and it felt like I'd earned it.

Once I got into ME2 the change was really drastic and it did take the fun away from combat until I got used to it, I just can't accept that anyone would think these weapons were an improvement story wise.





*I can't tell you the number of times I cloaked in ME2 only to find the @&$^ sniper rifle needed to be reloaded because the pause screen doesn't tell you if there's a heat sink in the barrel and shep normally auto reloads after shooting

** I miss those tech abilities, you could really disable individuals effectively

[Elvis_Mazur]

I like them, and they make more sense than "infinite ammo."

[Whereto]

I see it as this:

Kinetic barriers are increasing in power and the proven method to bet them is to fire as many bullets as u can at them. It is conceivable that shields at the end of m ass effect 1 had become so strong, that if you were to take on multiple enemies you would end up over heating your heat sink. This continual heat built up would do some freaky things to the gun, so when this new removable heat sink came along, they took it up quick. As with any good tech it is quickly adopted if it is very good or needed, so it's now everywhere.



Even if my hypotheses is wrong about the increase in shielding, I think sustaining the weapons durability is enough of a reason to change. I highly doubt that prolonged firing of weapons would not damage the componets and run at a higher cost to the user.



Also I would like to add that there were heat sinks in me1. So the tech was there just the removal of them in battle was not thought of or possible, probably for a number of reasons. This could of allowed Shepard to easily figure out how to change clips in the begining of the game as the tech wasn't totally new to him. Again that is just a theory which has flaws but it's the best I've got

[Vena_86]

The basic idea of the thermal clip system was good but it was somehow not really thought through and feels slapped on.
Why do you have to find clips and heavy weapons ammo during missions? No way to purchase, or restock on the Normandy.
Why do thermal clips stay hot forever? In the end the soldiers of the future are suddenly just as limited with their ammo supply and produce just as much trash (used thermal clips/ammo clips) as today!
The thermal clips should be universal but they actually are not implemented like that.
Things like the shotgun upgrade for reduced heat production make no sense. It should increase the ammount of shots you get for each clip, but instead you get more clips. From where do you get all those extra clips? Break the existing ones in half?

Good idea, unfinished implementation. Hopefully it will be finished until ME3 hits.

Modifié par Vena_86, 14 décembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Lumikki]

I like the termal clip system, because it feels better in single shot weapons. The cooldown could be better in high rate of fire weapons. How ever, gameplay win allways here compared to lore. I'm not gonna like bad gameplay just because some magical idiotic lore.

[DarkWarSoldier]

I love the thermal clip system.

[Mister Mida]

Give me some hybrid of these systems and I'll be cool with it. Preferably a hybrid without the thermal clips.

[ThePatriot101]

People hate the thermal clips because they actually have to practice ammunition management and manual aiming. Despite the RPGers complaining about needing more number-crunching-esque items in the gameplay they can't keep track of how many shots they have left in their gun or how to properly aim their weapon precisely at the enemy they're trying to kill. Add to that Bioware effectively mothballed the old overheat system both gameplay- and story-wise so there's an even smaller chance of that happening for any real reason despite anti-thermal clip advocates' rants.



The ME1 overheat system was okay from a sci-fi perspective. But from a combat perspective it did cause problems. Still prefer the ME2 system. Granted, I have run out of ammo on one or two guns but only because I wasn't really worrying about ammo management (and enemies drop clips so I replenished them relatively fast).



I think I lot of people hate the clips system because they don't want real shooters and infinite ammo was their crutch to get through ME1. Now they're stuck with a clips system and there's little room to maneuver to get any semblance of the overheat system back.



Though seriously, these threads have popped up for a while. Old news. Let's just get on with ME3 (preferably WITHOUT an overheat system).

[Praetor Knight]

Here's a suggestion on how to get "unlimited ammo" with ejectable thermal clips:

Lore-wise, and as seen in ME, the omnitool can break objects down into omnigel, so then in ME3 have the omnitool be used to make thermal clips in combat situations.

So gameplay-wise when you are in cover, and wait for your shields to recover, so does your thermal clip capacity.

[Aztag09]

Thermal clips make the combat a little more realistic in the sense hat we always need to reload instead of having something have infinite ammo and have the weapon over heat

[BeastMTL]

I'm of two minds of thermal clips.

1. After my 4th playthrough I believe they do work well with with gameplay mechanics. (Yes it took me that long to get used to them/not annoyed by them)
2. Beside being an aberration lore wise, it only has changed the downtime from in battle to after, as my Shepard now has to search every area for new clips. So battle = shorter but time spent = same.

Overall they're just normal ammo clips and I wish they just called it that and get it over with.

[Lumikki]

Praetor Shepard wrote...


So gameplay-wise when you are in cover, and wait for your shields to recover, so does your thermal clip capacity

Yes, but in that kind of gameplay, nothing ever force your out of good cover. When you run out of ability shoot, it force player to taking risks as move out of cover. So, that risk cause you consider different tactics as how to manage you shooting. It's one addional tactical variable in combat. In my opinion both npcs and combat system should force players to move more, not to be safe all the time. Also combat should never be done so that player can stand middle of battlefield and keep shooting from open places. Like some super armor would keep player alive.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

ThePatriot101 wrote...

People hate the thermal clips because they actually have to practice ammunition management and manual aiming.

No. People hate the thermal clip system because it is vastly different/inferior to the system in ME1, and it makes no sense, in any way, shape, or form, in the ME universe.

[Praetor Knight]

Lumikki wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...


So gameplay-wise when you are in cover, and wait for your shields to recover, so does your thermal clip capacity

Yes, but in that kind of gameplay, nothing ever force your out of good cover. When you run out of ability shoot, it force player to taking risks as move out of cover. So, that risk cause you consider different tactics as how to manage you shooting. It's one addional tactical variable in combat. In my opinion both npcs and combat system should force players to move more, not to be safe all the time. Also combat should never be done so that player can stand middle of battlefield and keep shooting from open places. Like some super armor would keep player alive.

What about more Harby AI?

Edit: I forgot, also have all enemy Vanguards that at least move like Vasir

and maybe destroy-able cover?

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 14 décembre 2010 - 05:18 .

[lumen11]

For the record: I'm not opposed.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense in story terms, but it's a vast improvement over ME1 in gameplay terms, which is much more important in this case.

[Alex109222]

i don't give a damn either way ammo is ammo you pick it up and fire

[Zurcior]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

ThePatriot101 wrote...

People hate the thermal clips because they actually have to practice ammunition management and manual aiming.

No. People hate the thermal clip system because it is vastly different/inferior to the system in ME1, and it makes no sense, in any way, shape, or form, in the ME universe.

 Nope, the ME1 system is inferior. Lore>>>Gameplay.

[ThePatriot101]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

ThePatriot101 wrote...

People hate the thermal clips because they actually have to practice ammunition management and manual aiming.

No. People hate the thermal clip system because it is vastly different/inferior to the system in ME1, and it makes no sense, in any way, shape, or form, in the ME universe.

But the ME Universe also revolves around the very real and factual demands of modern military technology.  As it is stated in-game it was much more preferable to use expendible heat sinks to put more rounds downrange than it is to stick with an overheat that could make a soldier essentially combat ineffective for several seconds.  And as it is usually the case in wartime who ever could push the most weapons typically has an advantage and only is reversed when the differences in technological level are so drastic.  In WW2 the U.S. fielded the M-4 Sherman tank which by all means was an inferior vehicle to a number of the German tanks.  Yet they were able to put more Shermans into the field than the Germans could replenish their numbers (other factors aside).

An exception could be in the case of the first Gulf War, where the U.S. was fighting Iraqi forces which had superior numbers but were largely technologically inferior by combined arms maneuvers with less-numerous but superior armored vehicles, aircraft, missiles, and infantry weapons.  But then the Iraqis were fighting with 60s and 70s Soviet Era equipment that was much less than "modern".

Case in point: unless your technological advantage is so high to enforce the quality-vs-quantity argument, quantity will take precedence.  As such, it's much better militarily to use a clip system that puts more rounds towards the enemy than an overheat system.  Both sides in a fight would have the same clip system, so why sit with the weapons that take away your ability to shoot for several seconds (longer if hit by Overload)?

[yummysoap]

I never had a problem with it, personally. I don't know why it's such a big deal.



It is very clearly a retcon, though. Good old Bioware tried soooo hard to fit it with the lore but I'll never be convinced. They'd have been better off just pretending that the guns were always like that.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Greatsultan wrote...

How about a thermal clip/overheat hybrid system ?

You still use the thermal clip, and you can still shoot without it but with severe consequences, like lesser accuracy, lesser rate of fire, lesser demage, and of course, overheat if you shoot it too long without thermal clip.

oh, the only reason why people hate thermal clip because its "so FPS"

I support this 100%, and it's what I thought the ME2 system would be like.