284 réponses à ce sujet

[M8DMAN]

MassEffect762 wrote...

The change bothered me initially. (Why? what for I asked myself)

Now I'd settle for some type of hybrid system.

This "hybrid" system can come in two forms.

The first being some weapons require thermals and other self cool(balance would be desireable)

The second would be all weapons(not heavy) cool themselves gradually with thermals speeding things up.

What would really grind my gears is having to look down for thermal clips(so uncessary and lame imo), I'd rather they just auto-loot once you take down an enemy.

My 00.2

I like the second option best because it makes since lore wise.

That way both parties would be happy.

[The Grey Ranger]

Real world military, there is a reason why machine guns have swappable barrels.

[Klimy]

A thought about thermo clips, I don't know how it effect the game balance, but:

When I sit in a cover for half an hour single enemy unload a truck of thermo-clips on me, but when I finally put a bullet in him he don't have a single clip left. It would be nice if we could get some clips from corpses, maybe half a clip. But sometimes I just want to pull the trigger and unload a wave of bullets and I can't due to constant lack of ammunition

[Matt VT Schlo]

The thermal system was great. In fact, it was almost too easy.......if they bring back overheating from the first, great. Thermal system, great. I'm easy!

[lazuli]

MassEffect762 wrote...
The first being some weapons require thermals and other self cool(balance would be desireable)

I like this idea.  As a player that's hoping for a return of Mass Effect 2's loadout system, this would be yet another way to make the guns truly feel different.  Other such ideas include adding "bullet penetration" to hit multiple opponents with a single shot, as brought up here.

[Makaiju]

while I don't see anyone being rude, I noticed at least one poster felt there was some rough attitudes going on. So I'd like to recap where we seem to be at this point.

Should any decisions about ME3 be made off of game lore? Yes but only if it doesn't destroy game play. The world of ME and it's detailed history and style is as much a reason fans of ME love it as the game play. Yet game play is important... because a "ME planetary mining" game would cause mass player suicides if it played like the mining in ME2.

Should real world life (or Military) facts be used to make ME3 decisions? Not really. Sure ME has an earth military and I would like the Alliance to be more like our current military then a lame G.I. Joe parody but at the same time... modern support weapons over heat the barrel and not their magazine wells. Close bolt guns over heat faster then open bolt guns, a clip is a one shot string of ammo and a mag is re-loadable holder of ammo, blah blah. Modern marines don't fly the universe bedding hot aliens and shooting killer robots. So I don't think think we really need to limit our game mechanics by 'modern' terms.

Which combat system (ME1 vs. ME2) is better? It's all about opinion. Apparently this thread has come up multiple times... apparently this has not been 'settled' in those my threads and isn't settled here. In the end, I think that's all any of use really want the Devs to know. Unless BioWare does a player by player survey, we don't know the real percentage of opinion about this. It's not uncommon for a very vocal minority of a player base to spam forums saying "this needs to be changed" and game companies have mistaken those kinds of 'loud' responses as representing the majority of players. Then the company makes a change and even more people come on the forums to complain about the change.

So I think all most of us really want is th DEVs to look at the fact we all love the game but can't agree If the ME1 or the ME2 combat system was best. So the combat system could probably use a little tweak in ME3... I should say weapons system as I think everyone agrees the over all cover system is much better... that is, unless your AI pall decides to use your cover and knocks you out in the open.

Modifié par Makaiju, 15 décembre 2010 - 03:32 .

[Skilled Seeker]

lazuli wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...
Why are you being a dick to that guy? You do realize that Mass Effect has a SNIPER class correct? The Infiltrator class is going to appeal to the people that like to hang back, and for those that like to charge forward we have Vanguards. Both styles are encouraged, neither is wrong, and he has a point that has been made by others:

Why would an Infiltrator that focuses on sniping carry only as many heat sinks for his sniper rifle as the soldier which relies more on assualt rifles? It didn't make any kind of sense at all. Why would a Vanguard that focuses on close combat with the shotgun as his primary carry the same number of rounds for his shotgun as the soldier which carries all weapons? Fortunately for the Vanguard their style takes them nearer the heatsinks, whereas the sniper's does not.

You seem to have a narrow definition of the capabilities of the classes you're discussing.  If it's a typical "hang in the back" sniper, Soldiers will do that job better than Infiltrators.  Infiltrators shine when they can use Tactical Cloak to get in the best positions possible.  They have the handy auto time dilation with sniper rifles, but that doesn't mean they should be limited to them.

I think the developers want you to shake up your style of play.  They want you to use a variety of powers, weapons, and squadmates.  I don't care if the amount of thermal clips a "sniper" carries doesn't make sense from a lore perspective.  From a gameplay perspective, though, it's a way for Bioware to encourage players to explore all of the options available to them, leading to dynamic and interesting combat.

Couldn't agree more. As the name goes an infiltrator is meant to infiltrate enemy ranks not hide and take pot shots from afar. If thats too hard for you play on the lower difficulty settings where enemies go down after 2 shots.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 15 décembre 2010 - 03:48 .

[Praetor Knight]

Made a poll:

http://social.biowar...64/polls/13038/

[Destructo-Bot]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...
Why are you being a dick to that guy? You do realize that Mass Effect has a SNIPER class correct? The Infiltrator class is going to appeal to the people that like to hang back, and for those that like to charge forward we have Vanguards. Both styles are encouraged, neither is wrong, and he has a point that has been made by others:

Why would an Infiltrator that focuses on sniping carry only as many heat sinks for his sniper rifle as the soldier which relies more on assualt rifles? It didn't make any kind of sense at all. Why would a Vanguard that focuses on close combat with the shotgun as his primary carry the same number of rounds for his shotgun as the soldier which carries all weapons? Fortunately for the Vanguard their style takes them nearer the heatsinks, whereas the sniper's does not.

You seem to have a narrow definition of the capabilities of the classes you're discussing.  If it's a typical "hang in the back" sniper, Soldiers will do that job better than Infiltrators.  Infiltrators shine when they can use Tactical Cloak to get in the best positions possible.  They have the handy auto time dilation with sniper rifles, but that doesn't mean they should be limited to them.

I think the developers want you to shake up your style of play.  They want you to use a variety of powers, weapons, and squadmates.  I don't care if the amount of thermal clips a "sniper" carries doesn't make sense from a lore perspective.  From a gameplay perspective, though, it's a way for Bioware to encourage players to explore all of the options available to them, leading to dynamic and interesting combat.

Couldn't agree more. As the name goes an infiltrator is meant to infiltrate enemy ranks not hide and take pot shots from afar. If thats too hard for you play on the lower difficulty settings where enemies go down after 2 shots.

Realize that I don't care about the play style. I do care about someone being rude to another for no good reason. You made a lousy comment intended to do nothing other than provoke that guy. Don't hide behind someone else's valid post as if it were your own, accept that you were being nasty and maybe try to be a nicer person in the future?

[Ahglock]

casedawgz wrote...

I really can't even fathom being low on ammo in ME2. Even on Insanity, when enemies take downright stupid amounts of punishment, I'm still rolling in thermal clips for all your guns. It's not telling someone how to play the game to tell them if they snipe that much, they're going to run out of ammo. The game's parameters are what they are, and playing SOLELY from way back in cover sniping is not a viable way to play within those parameters.

I also can't fathom running low on ammo so I have a hard time seeing how this in any way improves gameplay.  Unless freely firing like a lunatic with no regard to ammo/heat is a game play improvement.  My fist couple playthroughs I did pretty mucn solely hang back in cover and I still didn't run out of ammo, and I'm not even good at 3rd person shooters.  Fights are never endless, they may unrealistically spawn a huge number of enemies from a clown car room but they still end and I still had lots of ammo at the end.  Even with my sniper rifle or shot gun based characters. 

[ScotOfClanDonald]

One of my first impressions from ME2 was how stupid it was that my gun's thermal clip wouldn't cool down gradually on its own. I'm like, "Great, new geth tech lets me pop in a new thermal clip and keep firing after an overheat, but why doesn't the clip cool down on its own?"



It's still technically, lorewise, nigh unlimited ammo, it's just a heat issue. Even if we have new clips, the "ammo" counter should gradually go up again after a few seconds of not shooting.



I'm perfectly happy scouring the battlefield for more thermal clips if I want the ability to immediately keep firing after an overheat, but I also want to be able to let my gun gradually cool down on its own, say if I'm pinned down by crossfire.



There's no reason they can't have a hybrid system that works perfectly with both lore and gameplay. In fact, this also allows us to go up against enemies that don't use thermal clip guns, and adds a note of ammo management while not completely screwing us if we run out of clips. Like, say you're fighting Thorian creepers. They don't drop clips on their own because they're biological melee fighters. Ideally, you'd conserve fire throughout the level and maybe use melee more. Then, when you're finally out of extra clips, you just have to deal with the fact that your gun may overheat for a few seconds once in awhile. It wouldn't be like this every level, just once in awhile to change things up.



I just think that there's a perfectly valid reason to be asking for a hybrid system. Bioware could serve both lore (make nitpickers like me happy) and gameplay (no situations where you're 100% out of ammo).

[defsedz]

It dosn't really make sense. You go from unlimited ammo, to not unlimited ammo

[ScotOfClanDonald]

The ammo is still unlimited. It's just really hot.

[Shotokanguy]

The only problem, narrative wise, is that Shepard an co. seem to carry so little. But that could just be for gameplay.



Because gameplay wise, they work fine.

[Mecher3k]

I never liked it because it just never made sense lore wise.

Had they made it so you could still fire it after the clip was too hot, but only for a few more shots otherwise the gun would be disabled for the rest of the mission.

Make it like 2 shots for a overheated 1-shot sniper rifle, 2 burst fires for the burst ones, etc before you disable it. Also making it still possible to fire without thermal clips. But make the cooling down of the weapon really slow given the fact it doesn't have a thermal clip to absorb the heat. This way it would be a improvent in tech that make's sense lore wise.

Modifié par Mecher3k, 15 décembre 2010 - 08:53 .

[thachugabug]

It makes me wonder how an elite agent on a mission to save the galaxy is crawling around on the ground scrounging for spare ammo.

[Vit246]

Gameplay wise, it's fun, except for the parts where I have to run around for hard-to-notice clips that eventually disappear. Lore-wise, it makes little sense.

Bioware should adopt the the hybrid system idea and it should consist of something like this:
1) Replace the ammo counter with a number of clips instead, for example 5 or 10, and bring back the overheating.
2) If the gun overheats, it either has a long cooldown or it doesn't. Either way, you can eject the clip immediately if you want, but if you can control your firing rate and heating, you'll never have to, essentially never running out of ammo. IMO, this preserves the lore consistency and keeps the shooter aspect exciting.

And auto-replenish heavy weapons "ammo" to full capacity when you return to the ship.

Modifié par Vit246, 15 décembre 2010 - 10:22 .

[ScotOfClanDonald]

Also, if the clips never cool down, they could replace mass effect as the source for unlimited energy.



Tali: "Shepard! We need more power to the thrusters!"

Shepard: "Okay, go collect Grunt's spent shotgun clips from the firing range and chuck them into the engine! They're really hot!"

[Element_Zero]

Alright, pushing aside from my prior posting.



Saying a thermal clip (which btw is suppose to be a 'universally' constructed item for your arms) isn't ammo doesn't really fly if you consider the following when you play though.



I guess what I'm getting at is this . . . Ok if I have or have looted 1 clip and it's 'universally made' it means I should be able to use it in a pistol, shotgun, sniper, or AR. (yea that 1 clip should cool maybe 6 - 12 shots for your pistol, maybe 24 - 60 for the AR, 3 - 12 sniper, etc. .)



(Ok i guess that is how I felt about them)



Yet when you play and you run out of thermal clips for your pistol, there's still reserve for your other weapons and they don't seem universally compatible.



Which takes away from the claim 'universal all thermal clips are manufactured the same' aspect of it. If they were truly 'universal' and all of them manufactured the same you should be able to use the clips from your pistol in your other guns for example and they would be totally swappable yet you can't swap between the various weapons.



But playing the game there are 'classes' of thermal clips, ones for pistols, rifles, shotguns, and snipers.



Which in some way takes away some aspects since most of the enemy isn't carrying all the various types of weapons into battle. And it gets even more odd since your can't change your reserves and yet when you loot a clip (should the pistol reserve be full and the other weapon not. . . well those clips get dumped into the other weapon's pile.) That aspect got a bit annoying to me.



Alright maybe I'm 'splitting hairs' here, but the system had that feeling of saying "Ok we are not incorporating ammo in the game yet you are getting ammo. . . "



And thermal clips didn't seem to be truly universal, with this mechanic. . . yet (only when looting ) they strangely were. Only you who happened to be carrying this pile of them didn't have a choice as to which weapon they fed.

[Malanek]

MassEffect762 wrote...
What would really grind my gears is having to look down for thermal clips(so uncessary and lame imo), I'd rather they just auto-loot once you take down an enemy.

But then you wouldn't have to move during combat which is kind of defeating the purpose.

From a gameplay perspective ME needed ammo. It allows another important design element to be introduced to weapons, combat and level design. I actually think it was a little too plentiful, at least on insanity. It is very rarely an issue with the best weapons.

Having one or two weapons that had infinite ammo would be OK, they would just have to be weaker to balance that out.

[Praetor Knight]

For how ME2 was made, moving around for clips was fine.

What I'd love to see is the combat evolve, I've said it before, but I'll bring it up again.

I'd like to see the "ammo" automatically replenish when in cover just how health and shields do in ME2.

So the next step would be to have improved AI, breakable/penetrable cover and/or enemies use powers that can take you out of cover (like Harby). Then unlimited firing from replenishing clips would not be an issue but a necessary feature.

[Skilled Seeker]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...
Why are you being a dick to that guy? You do realize that Mass Effect has a SNIPER class correct? The Infiltrator class is going to appeal to the people that like to hang back, and for those that like to charge forward we have Vanguards. Both styles are encouraged, neither is wrong, and he has a point that has been made by others:

Why would an Infiltrator that focuses on sniping carry only as many heat sinks for his sniper rifle as the soldier which relies more on assualt rifles? It didn't make any kind of sense at all. Why would a Vanguard that focuses on close combat with the shotgun as his primary carry the same number of rounds for his shotgun as the soldier which carries all weapons? Fortunately for the Vanguard their style takes them nearer the heatsinks, whereas the sniper's does not.

You seem to have a narrow definition of the capabilities of the classes you're discussing.  If it's a typical "hang in the back" sniper, Soldiers will do that job better than Infiltrators.  Infiltrators shine when they can use Tactical Cloak to get in the best positions possible.  They have the handy auto time dilation with sniper rifles, but that doesn't mean they should be limited to them.

I think the developers want you to shake up your style of play.  They want you to use a variety of powers, weapons, and squadmates.  I don't care if the amount of thermal clips a "sniper" carries doesn't make sense from a lore perspective.  From a gameplay perspective, though, it's a way for Bioware to encourage players to explore all of the options available to them, leading to dynamic and interesting combat.

Couldn't agree more. As the name goes an infiltrator is meant to infiltrate enemy ranks not hide and take pot shots from afar. If thats too hard for you play on the lower difficulty settings where enemies go down after 2 shots.

Realize that I don't care about the play style. I do care about someone being rude to another for no good reason. You made a lousy comment intended to do nothing other than provoke that guy. Don't hide behind someone else's valid post as if it were your own, accept that you were being nasty and maybe try to be a nicer person in the future?

Who hired the moral police? Chillax.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 15 décembre 2010 - 11:42 .

[Destructo-Bot]

Word, homie!

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 16 décembre 2010 - 03:25 .

[M8DMAN]

thachugabug wrote...

It makes me wonder how an elite agent on a mission to save the galaxy is crawling around on the ground scrounging for spare ammo.

I agree and it silly seeing shepard running around scrounging for thermal clips..

Modifié par M8DMAN, 16 décembre 2010 - 02:58 .

[Darknesshade13]

I personally found the thermal clip system better than the one in ME1. For me, it forced me to tactically attack the enemy.