284 réponses à ce sujet

[Bamboozalist]

I'm for the thermal clip system under the following conditions in ME3...



1) take away the 20/200 style and replace it with Weapon Heat/Number of Clips

2) they make it so that you weapons slowly cool down when they're not firing and I mean SLOWLY those things get really hot they're not going to cool down that quickly, that was one of my biggest problems with ME1's system.



Thermal clips make sense in terms of lore when you consider how long it would take to actually cool a weapon down and what a weapon actually overheating does to it. ME2's problem is they don't properly implement them, everyone including people who wouldn't have access to them use them.

[Mr Zoat]

I dislike thermal clips because after I fight I end up hunting around for more, rather than moving on to the next thing. Breaks the flow.

[Bamboozalist]

Mr Zoat wrote...

I dislike thermal clips because after I fight I end up hunting around for more, rather than moving on to the next thing. Breaks the flow.

What weapon are you using? The only weapons I ever run out of Ammo on are the Incisior and the Geth Shotgun.

[Alamar2078]

People are opposed to it because the "lore" from the first game indicated that things like clips were not needed.

As for ammo counts I'm nowhere near an elite player but I pretty much always have ammo and I usually only play with low ammo count weapons.

EDIT:  Note I do remember where most of the fixed caches of ammo are on the levels so that helps when I know I'll have "unlimited" ammo just around the corner

Modifié par Alamar2078, 17 décembre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

I actually prefer the thermal clip system, as without it fast firing weapons like the viper and the revenant could not exsist.

[thachugabug]

Maybe if you ran out of thermal clips, the gun would go into the Mass Effect 1 style, but the gun would be weaker. Or you could swap between the two for certain situations EX: Boss Fights

[Praetor Knight]

Orkboy wrote...

I'm still trying to work out lore wise, how a crashed ship full of people can be totally and completely isolated from the rest of the universe for a couple of decades, and yet have a 2 year old thermal clip system in all of their weapons?

The generation of thermal clips from dead enemies can be seen as a gameplay convenience.

Also it's one clip per enemy.

[Cloaking_Thane]

I'd rather potentially run out of "ammo" and rely on tech/biotic powers than get heat sink X times 2 and hold down RT until the HP finally went away.



Would I love more shots for the widow, of course, but would it be insanely OP if it had more than it does? of course.



On the whole they did a great balancing act.



Some of the calls for a hybrid system are interesting, but not sure if it would work gameplay wise.

[Praetor Knight]

I'd rather at least take away the 16/64 style and replace it with Total Number of shots per clip / Total Number of Clips.

So for the Soldier it would have the greatest impact. So say with the Mattock it would look like 16 / 30, Mantis 1 / 30, and so on.

This would have been better if it was like this in ME2 so that it would be less confusing.

[Tasker]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I'd rather potentially run out of "ammo" and rely on tech/biotic powers than get heat sink X times 2 and hold down RT until the HP finally went away.

The thing is though, putting those mods into "your"  weapon was "your"  choice.  And in a single player game, "your"  choice should be what matters.

People moan about the ability to do it, but it's "your"  choice to do or not do.  It's a single player game, if someone chooses to use up their weapons mod slots to do so, then how the hell does that affect anyone else? 

[Cloaking_Thane]

Orkboy wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I'd rather potentially run out of "ammo" and rely on tech/biotic powers than get heat sink X times 2 and hold down RT until the HP finally went away.

The thing is though, putting those mods into "your"  weapon was "your"  choice.  And in a single player game, "your"  choice should be what matters.

People moan about the ability to do it, but it's "your"  choice to do or not do.  It's a single player game, if someone chooses to use up their weapons mod slots to do so, then how the hell does that affect anyone else? 

It doesnt, but there is no real challenge at that point.

I mean I am all for the story of ME and choices and romancing and etc etc, but generally I would like a semi challenge in my games.

The point is there is no reason not to use Sprectre gear X and heat sinks even in your stand alone experience, it was one of the problems with it.

Humans naturally drift towards the optimal level of things and it naturally lead you in that direction if you are over 13.....but I digress,

I guess my answer is that if you prefer that method why have combat at all? Sure I could "not" do it, but thats the same as me saying I'm not going to use Cloak this entire game as an infiltrator,

-I could also choose not to upgrade anything in ME2 or use my ammo "powers", etc etc. what's your point?

The mechanic changed for the better IMO, and made combat overall more satifying......Sure i missed changing ammo (although You could still somewhat with squad ammo) but on the whole I think they got more things right than wrong

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 17 décembre 2010 - 09:40 .

[Bamboozalist]

Orkboy wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I'd rather potentially run out of "ammo" and rely on tech/biotic powers than get heat sink X times 2 and hold down RT until the HP finally went away.

The thing is though, putting those mods into "your"  weapon was "your"  choice.  And in a single player game, "your"  choice should be what matters.

People moan about the ability to do it, but it's "your"  choice to do or not do.  It's a single player game, if someone chooses to use up their weapons mod slots to do so, then how the hell does that affect anyone else? 

There is a reason games don't include Godmode in their options. If you can do it, you will.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Bamboozalist wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I'd rather potentially run out of "ammo" and rely on tech/biotic powers than get heat sink X times 2 and hold down RT until the HP finally went away.

The thing is though, putting those mods into "your"  weapon was "your"  choice.  And in a single player game, "your"  choice should be what matters.

People moan about the ability to do it, but it's "your"  choice to do or not do.  It's a single player game, if someone chooses to use up their weapons mod slots to do so, then how the hell does that affect anyone else? 

There is a reason games don't include Godmode in their options. If you can do it, you will.

Exactly, I'm not going to make the game artificially harder on myself for the first 1-2 playthroughs.

[Admoniter]

TheKillerAngel wrote...
It's not ammo. The guns have the same amount of ammo. It's the heat the guns generate that is being discarded. When I'm done with exams I could draw a diagram to illustrate how this sytem works.

It's ammo, as it stands I can recycle the left over capacity from thermal clips into my overall pool of shots remaining (a predominant feature of the ammo systems used by many current shooters.) Which makes absolutely no sense what so ever if we're dealing simply with swapping out heat sinks, the only logical explanation is that it is ammo.

(Memo for Bioware: If you end up doing a simple thermal clip exclusive system for ME3, which I really hope you don't. Atleast treat heatsinks like heatsinks, i.e. the second I eject a heatsink it is gone, it doesn't matter how much capacity is left, it is gone, I don't get to recycle the capacity back into my overall shots remaining. Otherwise it will just be a dressed up ammo system, you can call it whatever you like but it will still be the same old ammo system used in just about every shooter out there.)


As for my problem with it, well there are numerous problems. First being squandered potential, not only would the hybrid system be more interesting, but I would have much preferred it to the generic ammo system used by shooters. I play enough shooters as is, I don't want to retread old ground every single game I play. Also from a lore perspective the move makes no sense. Now instead of having to worry about one resource, soldiers have to worry about two. Furthermore the thermal clip exclusive system is inferior in every way to the ME1 system in siege situation especially against enemies like rachni who don't drop thermal clips.

"Oh what's that private, you're out of thermal clips, your weapon has become inoperable, why on god's green Earth did we retire those crappy old weapons that could fire almost indefinitely, there is a hoard of pissed off insects right at your front door. Well better use that weapon of yours as a crude bludgeon, perhaps resupply will arive before those marauding insects have flayed the entire outpost alive. Sincerely Command."

Those situations right there are basically crying out for a passive cooling system, or at the very least a hybrid, infact I find it hard to believe that the whole galaxy would switch over to the thermal clips system without a backup passive cooling system. Just doesn't make sense to me. Also the thermal clip sytem wasn't really effective, I rarely ran out of ammo for my main weapon, and even if I did there was sure to be plenty of clips tucked away in a shelve or by that pile of dead bodies, oh well off to continue on my massacre.

Modifié par Admoniter, 17 décembre 2010 - 10:17 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

BomimoDK wrote...

Because, Where's the Battery/ammo. THIS is like magic!

Nothing is limitless. And heat is a problem even with normal present-day weapons with high rates of fire. In future, with weapons fireing plasma or super-accelerated slugs, the heat generation will SKYROCKET.

There will be a limit. There ALWAYS is. It can be ammo, heat or energy. All 3 would be the most realistic, but I bet that would be irritating to some.

I don't care which they choose. But I want some limitations. Makes for a more strategic and thinking game.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 17 décembre 2010 - 10:26 .

[Chala]

I don't see the problem with thermal clips, if you're a soldier, change your weapons, if you are a infiltrator, stealth mode and scavange for ammo, if you are sentinel/ adept/ vaguard/engineer, use powers so you can get some after killing someone.

[ScotOfClanDonald]

I would like to point out that I never modded a gun to never overheat in ME1. I went the opposite direction, and gave everybody the high-explosive rounds and high damage/high heat mods. More satisfying to knock an enemy into next week with my sniper rifle-turned rocket launcher and then wait for cooldown than to just hold down the trigger until they died.



So when I ask for a hybrid system where you can eject clips, but you'll eventually cool down even if you don't swap out, it's because my personal game style tends to go for the large numbers of overheats for maximum possible impact each shot. If they allow modding of weapons in ME3 that's anything like the previous game, I'm going to be blowing my clips like popcorn; it'd be nice to have a fallback ability to shoot even after I'm out of thermal clips.

[Praetor Knight]

Admoniter wrote...

"Oh what's that private, you're out of thermal clips, your weapon has become inoperable, why on god's green Earth did we retire those crappy old weapons that could fire almost indefinitely, there is a hoard of pissed off insects right at your front door. Well better use that weapon of yours as a crude bludgeon, perhaps resupply will arive before those marauding insects have flayed the entire outpost alive. Sincerely Command."

Those situations right there are basically crying out for a passive cooling system, or at the very least a hybrid, infact I find it hard to believe that the whole galaxy would switch over to the thermal clips system without a backup passive cooling system. Just doesn't make sense to me. Also the thermal clip sytem wasn't really effective, I rarely ran out of ammo for my main weapon, and even if I did there was sure to be plenty of clips tucked away in a shelve or by that pile of dead bodies, oh well off to continue on my massacre.

What we see in ME2 could also considered as seeing early adopters (Shep & Co), where only a few factions have the new tech.

Enemies only drop one clip per dead enemy, even on Jacob's LM, right?

[Zurcior]

Admoniter wrote...

*snip*

 The hybrid system you and others push for can potentially be either impossible, or impractible. Main reason being that we don't know exactly how the previous heat management system worked. A hybrid system could lead to bulky, impractible weapons.

[Ahglock]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I'd rather potentially run out of "ammo" and rely on tech/biotic powers than get heat sink X times 2 and hold down RT until the HP finally went away.

The thing is though, putting those mods into "your"  weapon was "your"  choice.  And in a single player game, "your"  choice should be what matters.

People moan about the ability to do it, but it's "your"  choice to do or not do.  It's a single player game, if someone chooses to use up their weapons mod slots to do so, then how the hell does that affect anyone else? 

It doesnt, but there is no real challenge at that point.

I mean I am all for the story of ME and choices and romancing and etc etc, but generally I would like a semi challenge in my games.

The point is there is no reason not to use Sprectre gear X and heat sinks even in your stand alone experience, it was one of the problems with it.

Humans naturally drift towards the optimal level of things and it naturally lead you in that direction if you are over 13.....but I digress,

I guess my answer is that if you prefer that method why have combat at all? Sure I could "not" do it, but thats the same as me saying I'm not going to use Cloak this entire game as an infiltrator,

-I could also choose not to upgrade anything in ME2 or use my ammo "powers", etc etc. what's your point?

The mechanic changed for the better IMO, and made combat overall more satifying......Sure i missed changing ammo (although You could still somewhat with squad ammo) but on the whole I think they got more things right than wrong

What challenge are you refering to in ME2.  Are you actually running out of ammo and the ammo system is making this a challenge?  I don't see it, people keep saying it but I think they are mistaking their overall preference of ME2 combat to being because they have ammo when it never becomes an issue so it really has no effect on your game play or enjoyment of the game. 

[Admoniter]

Praetor Shepard wrote...
What we see in ME2 could also considered as seeing early adopters (Shep & Co), where only a few factions have the new tech.

While that would be believable the codex kind of shatters that theory, it basically  states that thermal clips are so awesome that everyone uses them now and battlefields are littered with them. But beyond that I'm skeptical that anyone would adopt a much more limiting system that makes no goddamn sense with plenty of tradeoffs for only a slight increase in rounds down range.

Enemies only drop one clip per dead enemy, even on Jacob's LM, right?

I believe so but don't forget those caches I mentioned like the ones in Garrus' hideout, and throughout other areas in the game that are more or less a source of regenerating ammo.

[Praetor Knight]

Admoniter wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...
What we see in ME2 could also considered as seeing early adopters (Shep & Co), where only a few factions have the new tech.

While that would be believable the codex kind of shatters that theory, it basically  states that thermal clips are so awesome that everyone uses them now and battlefields are littered with them. But beyond that I'm skeptical that anyone would adopt a much more limiting system that makes no goddamn sense with plenty of tradeoffs for only a slight increase in rounds down range.

But the Codex does not clarify who is littering...

so yeah, maybe the Codex is written as Alliance propaganda from humanity's prespective?

Admoniter wrote...

don't forget those caches I mentioned like the ones in Garrus' hideout, and throughout other areas in the game that are more or less a source of regenerating ammo.

I figured those clips around levels that respawn are there for game play convenience ( but one could pretend that Shep is whipping out an omnitool and making more that are then conveniently presented as ready made in those spots), but it is a bit of stretch however it's rationalized,

but then HW caches do reset your ammo also, so meh.

Personnally, I'd rather have the omnitool make more thermal clips when I'm in cover, just how using Shield Boost and First Aid got automated when you stay in cover or when you stopped getting hit for a while.

That way no running around for clips and so on. Of course something like that needs to be balanced to keep the soldier class on its toes, but I'm confident that if Bioware would do something like that, they will do a good job.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 17 décembre 2010 - 11:32 .

[Silver Dreamer]

I prefer the heat system of ME 1 simply because, as a Vanguard transferring over into ME 2, I prefer using pistols, machine pistols, and shotguns. I despise either having to chase after disappearing ammo clips or being pinned by enemies with little to no ammo (fortunately, I have Heavy Shockwave, which is quickly becoming my favorite power). I just hate that the pistol has such limited ammo. For a basic weapon, you'd expect it to have a larger clip. :| I know a hybrid system is impractical, but at least have it as a back-up for the pistol.

[martin_bgi]

lore

Ah yes, "lore". We have dismissed that claim.

but, seriously, weren't heat sinks necessary because weapons became more powerfull to combat more powerfull armor? so, if there would be hybrid system in ME3, players shooting without thermal clip would have to suffer severe consequences, like for example much lower damage output.

of course, system with thermal clips cooling gradually would be another story.

[Durgon Ironfist]

There are two real reasons the thermal clip system is hated:
1) Angry lore ****s (German National Socialist party members) who cannot see the need for game play improvements
2) People are ultraconservative with their rounds aka Aim fire collect new ammo repeat

Modifié par Durgon Ironfist, 18 décembre 2010 - 04:32 .