284 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

I dont like it because they tried to hide their nerf as a buff. I would not mind if they just came on out and said they were doing it to make gameplay more like a traditional shooter. Just retcon it and move on, but they just had to try and make it sound so superior, to pretend the entire galaxy would move to it in 2 years, then they throw them back in time even and act like nothing is out of place...

Its a mess.

[Durgon Ironfist]

I also wish to say I enjoy the thermal clip systems 100% and the idea of a hybrid system is vastly unappealing. As to my nature I pick apart super science when it presented to me in a context such as mass effect. Dealing with what are basically shavings of metal fired at high velocity, heat is to be involved that said the idea of the thermal clip is the obvious compensator. As to the complaints about functionality I add that a larger clip is loaded and smaller clips discharged as needed. Also as a gun owner I can say that overheating = bad very very bad. It causes a massive hazard in our simple gun powder based weapons, that said we're talking about over heating in weapons accelerating projectiles to intense speeds increasing that danger. In closing I will say before you cry something is unfeasible in the defined universe please look into the matter before you make a coxcomb of yourself.

[hella awesome]

Personally, the thermal clip system would work better if I could take clips out of one gun I am carrying and put it in another.



Thermal clips are not ammo! They are universal between all gun models except for the power weapons.

[Durgon Ironfist]

hella awesome wrote...

Personally, the thermal clip system would work better if I could take clips out of one gun I am carrying and put it in another.

Thermal clips are not ammo! They are universal between all gun models except for the power weapons.

True but a larger clip is inserted into the gun then the smaller ones ejected as it heats. The point of the system is to find another large clip and replace the older one.

[Pepper4]

Ammo is neccesery. They couldn't make the guns as strong as they are without using ammo.

S

[tonnactus]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

It doesnt, but there is no real challenge at that point.

I mean I am all for the story of ME and choices and romancing and etc etc, but generally I would like a semi challenge in my games.

Never played on insanity,right? You dont kill a krogan in Mass Effect with just holding down the trigger.
He kill you in melee before while having immunity on.

[Tasker]

tonnactus wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

It doesnt, but there is no real challenge at that point.

I mean I am all for the story of ME and choices and romancing and etc etc, but generally I would like a semi challenge in my games.

Never played on insanity,right? You dont kill a krogan in Mass Effect with just holding down the trigger.
He kill you in melee before while having immunity on.

That is a very good point, if ME1 weapons with heat reduction mods make the game too easy, you're playing on the wrong difficulty. 

Modifié par Orkboy, 18 décembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[sinosleep]

Since this argument has absolutely been done to death here I'm just going to chime in with this...



I love thermal clips, and doubt they will be going any where or that any kind of hybrid system will be introduced.

[Zurcior]

Vaenier wrote...

I dont like it because they tried to hide their nerf as a buff. I would not mind if they just came on out and said they were doing it to make gameplay more like a traditional shooter. Just retcon it and move on, but they just had to try and make it sound so superior, to pretend the entire galaxy would move to it in 2 years, then they throw them back in time even and act like nothing is out of place...
Its a mess.

 Stop lying right now! There is no nerf and there is no retcon. If you'd actually pay attention to the explanations giving in the game and booklets you'd know it isn't what you think it is.

[Praetor Knight]

sinosleep wrote...

Since this argument has absolutely been done to death here I'm just going to chime in with this...

I love thermal clips, and doubt they will be going any where or that any kind of hybrid system will be introduced.

And so far at least 63 people agree with you on this poll: http://social.biowar...64/polls/13038/

[Mr Zoat]

Bamboozalist wrote...

Mr Zoat wrote...

I dislike thermal clips because after I fight I end up hunting around for more, rather than moving on to the next thing. Breaks the flow.

What weapon are you using? The only weapons I ever run out of Ammo on are the Incisior and the Geth Shotgun.

Viper Sniper Rifle usually.  I have been known to run out with the Revenant and the Mattock.

Modifié par Mr Zoat, 18 décembre 2010 - 10:14 .

[Rebel42]

I only run out of clips on shotgun, they can be a pain but do make me think about mixing up the way that I fight

[Drasynd]

They might be called "thermal clips" but ammo clip is a ammo clip is a ammo clip, no matter what you say.

From MY "point of view" ME1's system was/is superior to ME2's FPS based ammo system.

And if I modded my guns in ME1, it was for more dmg/hit then rapid fire.

If your weapon in ME1 overheated, well what can I say, your not careful enough or your running around shooting at everything that moves (or doesn't move).



And making the game more tactical with suicide runs for ammo, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?!?!?!?!

[Skilled Seeker]

ME2's system isn't FPS based. I hate it when people use terms they don't understand. FPS and UFO are frequently used incorrectly and it pisses the hell out of me. People that use terms they don't understand should be shot.

[Drasynd]

It doesn't matter where the system came from, but it's a typical one from FPS's.
When in the first game HEAT was the issue, now it's AMMO.

They could tweak the original system in a way that HEAT was a larger issue, instead they REMOVED IT (and remove the uber gear from the game). What was done can be undone, but it's highly likely they will keep their AMMO SYSTEM from ME2 in ME3.

Also "Skilled Seeker" threatening to shoot people, tell's me that you should get your head checked by a medical professional (you know what I mean).

Modifié par Drasynd, 19 décembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[Datacakes]

I hated the thermal clip system. Bioware had a opportunity to innovate and evolve a tired...a tired FPS mechanic. It's been around since the days of Doom and Wolfenstein and its old.



ME1 was much better. I play ME2 a lot. I'm just finishing up an insanity engineer run that I just finished importing from ME1. So I have a fresh perspective on both systems. On the whole, ME1 combat is more fun and more tactical. But compared to ME2 there's little opportunity for it. ME2 combat is easy, way too easy. It's possible to load up a Soldier class in ME2, put no points into your powers, and win missions. There's no point in the enemy having barrier, shield or armor. None. There's no point in a soldier having ammo powers. None. However there is a point for you, the player to use them and thats to get through the combat faster. And it's not just the soldier class either. My engineer just tore through Legions Loyalty with incendiary ammo. So then why have disruptor ammo?



The thermal clip system dumbed down the FPS mechanics of the first game to the point of it being indistinguishable from any other FPS game since the late 80's early 90s. It's was a step backwards.



But you take the bad with the good. Tired FPS shooter mechanics in ME2 but more combat and action. Less action in ME1 and more innovative combat mechanics.



As a poster before me said: what is done can be undone. There is also the saying: what is done can not be undone. ME3 will have thermal clips.

[caradoc2000]

The worst part is that Shepard is the only one who can run out of ammo.

[sinosleep]

Innovation for the sake of innovation isn't good for anyone. Ever think that maybe there's a reason a mechanic as old as picking up ammo has been around for as long as it has and continues to be featured in shooters year in and year out?

[Datacakes]

sinosleep wrote...

Innovation for the sake of innovation isn't good for anyone. Ever think that maybe there's a reason a mechanic as old as picking up ammo has been around for as long as it has and continues to be featured in shooters year in and year out?

Because its easy to design.   Enemy has 100% health.  Weapon 1 does 5% damage.  Weapon 2 does 10% damage ... Weapon X does Y% damage. So now you now why Weapons with more damage have less ammo.   Its very simple.

[sinosleep]

And it works, so I don't have a problem with it. Thematically it doesn't make sense in ANY game for you to be running around picking up ammo (real soldiers carry combat loads, and don't run around picking up enemy weapons and ammo and using them against them) and yet it persists instead of most games switching over to a combat load method of ammo management.

[Datacakes]

sinosleep wrote...

And it works, so I don't have a problem with it. Thematically it doesn't make sense in ANY game for you to be running around picking up ammo (real soldiers carry combat loads, and don't run around picking up enemy weapons and ammo and using them against them) and yet it persists instead of most games switching over to a combat load method of ammo management.

Exactly.  We are in agreement. It works because it's easy.  It's easier for the developers and it's easier for the players.  I don't have to think about anything in combat except 'more' ammo.   Eclipse baddie has a barrier up.  No problem.  I just need more ammo.  Blue Suns have shields up.  No problem.  I just need more ammo.  Vorcha got up their armor, no problem...

[Veex]

Datacakes wrote...

Exactly.  We are in agreement. It works because it's easy.  It's easier for the developers and it's easier for the players.  I don't have to think about anything in combat except 'more' ammo.   Eclipse baddie has a barrier up.  No problem.  I just need more ammo.  Blue Suns have shields up.  No problem.  I just need more ammo.  Vorcha got up their armor, no problem...

In Mass Effect 2 your weapons effect shields and armor differently and a limited ammo system intends that you at least try and conserve ammunition. To try and portray the shooting mechanics as inferior to the original doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you don't like the combat and prefer stat based modifiers and unlimited ammo like in the original game that is fine, but to insinuate the "ease" of Mass Effect 2's combat is less than the original's seems disingenious.

[Datacakes]

Veex wrote...

Datacakes wrote...

Exactly.  We are in agreement. It works because it's easy.  It's easier for the developers and it's easier for the players.  I don't have to think about anything in combat except 'more' ammo.   Eclipse baddie has a barrier up.  No problem.  I just need more ammo.  Blue Suns have shields up.  No problem.  I just need more ammo.  Vorcha got up their armor, no problem...

In Mass Effect 2 your weapons effect shields and armor differently and a limited ammo system intends that you at least try and conserve ammunition. To try and portray the shooting mechanics as inferior to the original doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you don't like the combat and prefer stat based modifiers and unlimited ammo like in the original game that is fine, but to insinuate the "ease" of Mass Effect 2's combat is less than the original's seems disingenious.

I dont recall saying ME2 combat was easier than ME1.  I think I said, that I preferred ME1's combat.  Sure it needed tweaking and adjusting but I don't think it needed scrapping.   I like ME2.  I like that there are shields, barriers and armor and I like that the 'intent' of the different weapons and powers was to give the player a reason to employ different tactics.  I just think it sort of failed on it's delivery.  Try it.  Try going through one of the ME2 missions with no powers or a non-optimal power. 

I believe what I said was that I preferred ME1's combat but compared to ME2 there was less opportunity to engage in combat.  I dislike ME2's combat compared to ME1 but there's more opportunity to engage in combat.  I don't think I'm alone with that opinion but maybe in the minority.  I'm fine with that.

[thachugabug]

I want more clips, my geth shotgun mine as well be a flippin power weapon, my arc caster has more shots!

[Dracotamer]

I'd want a hybrid system, which is why I modded my ME:2 to use a hybrid system. It works exactly how I feel they should of done it in ME:2.