107 réponses à ce sujet

[Ship.wreck_]

I've been pissed that I've been working with Cerberus all along. I'm not saying that they should have done ME2 differently it's kinda cool that you end up working with someone you would normally never being associated with. I just don't like that I work with them so I try to be as anti cerberus as possible in my playthroughs.

Anyway the point is, I've always known they were so called human extremests. And I did recal destroying their facilities in Mass Effect, but on my first playthrough I never found Admiral Kohoku so I didn't do it as part of that sub plot, and never got the full story. That's a really crazy thing about ME, most games if there's a certain side mission that takes place in a specific location and you go there with out engaging in that part of the plot... its not there! In ME the universe is static all the side missions are already in place on all the worlds whether you talk to the people about them or not. For example Nassana Dantius's sub mission that involves killing her sister, you can go to that planet and kill her sister and the pirates before you ever even meet Nassana. Anyway, I'm playing through ME for the second time now, and this time I found Kohoku so I'm actually getting the context under which you find the Marines that got killed by the Thresher, and hunt down Cerberus for the first time! Holly crap!

My whole first playthrough of ME2 I had no idea what BAD GUYS these people are!!! Maybe not Jacob and Miri personally but Cerberus in general and TIM, he had to have been calling the shots on all the bad stuff from ME so while I personally didn't like him my first playthrough, now I actually want to off that dude myself! Too bad I won't be able to on my second playthrough of ME2...

That's crazy though I had no idea all this time that Cerberus intentionally led Alliance Marines into a Thresher Maw nest to be wiped out! And hunted down, captured, drugged and murdered an Alliance Navy Admiral! Not to mention probably torturing and interogating the guy as well! Wish I could bring that up in my convo's with Miri, "I don't care what they did for you babe, look what they did to this Admiral I knew personally! And he was a really good guy trying to look out for his men! Not to mention what they did to his men!"

Also suprised me to learn that Cerberus was actually a shady Alliance military organization when it first started out, not unlike our CIA, then it went Rogue. This is what's awesome about the ME universe each game has so much stuff and in it in terms of side missions and sub plots, unless you actually use a guide (lame) there's gonna be something new to discover for at least the first couple of playthroughs.

[Ship.wreck_]

On a side note, I loved how in ME you got Paragon points for being nice, no matter who you were being nice to, and got Renegade points for being an ass no matter who you were being an ass to.

I like to be a good guy, and under that system I could be nice to good people and get my Paragon points, then go and be a completed jerk to bad guys and get my Renegade points, and still feel like a good guy at the end of the day.

I hate how they switched it around in ME2 so that you get Paragon points for being nice to good people AND for being a jerk to bad guys, and Renegade points for being a jerk to good guys and nice to TIM and badguys.

Under the new system if you want to be a good guy it's impossible to get any renegade points ever! You can't even get them by being a total jerk to bad guys! It actually makes more sense that way because it's supposed to be a measure of morality, and it's immoral to be nice to good guys. But I like the old way better where it was more a measure of personallity, that way I could be entirely moral aka good, and still get renegade points, so in those rare situations, I can still use those renegade points to be scary / intimidating and a total dick without being a bad guy!

Hope they go back to the old system for ME3 because as much as I like being a good guy all the time. I still like to unlock Renegade convo options so I can scare the **** out of, and be a complete A-hole to the bad guys!

[Encarmine]

Ship, I love the comparison to the CIA, as that is what i think also, it really comes down to your viewpoint on things. Humanity numbers into the billions, Cerberus are trying to advance humanity and look out for its interests. That does have a dark side to it. Just like the CIA is trying defend the United States and advance its interests, somtimes an organisation like that has to do extreme things. Im being unfair on the CIA, im British and im damn sure MI6 has also done some questionable things in its time.



All in all, organisations like this need to exist, Salarian STG are evil from a Krogan point of view.



I really enjoyed working for Cerberus, life isnt black and white, but shades of grey, and cerberus is definatly shady and grey. Just like the CIA/MI6 the new KGB

[Taki17]

Yeah, but STG does not work agains their own people - for example, Cerberus transformed an entire colony into Husks.



I hate Cerberus too.

[rma2110]

Here's what I don't get abou Cerberus ... why use human marines as guinea pigs? The whole thing with the thresher maw seems stupid. It's not like the thresher maw was a huge threat to humanity. They should be concentrating on threats from aliens who are more sentient. Plus, getting on the wrong side of the alliance is not exactly smart. Too heavy a risk for meager results.



I do understand the experiments that gave us Jack. Developing strong biotics in human soldiers is an understandable goal, even if I find the way they went about it reprehensible.

[Ship.wreck_]

Encarmine wrote...

Ship, I love the comparison to the CIA, as that is what i think also, it really comes down to your viewpoint on things. Humanity numbers into the billions, Cerberus are trying to advance humanity and look out for its interests. That does have a dark side to it. Just like the CIA is trying defend the United States and advance its interests, somtimes an organisation like that has to do extreme things. Im being unfair on the CIA, im British and im damn sure MI6 has also done some questionable things in its time.

All in all, organisations like this need to exist, Salarian STG are evil from a Krogan point of view.

I really enjoyed working for Cerberus, life isnt black and white, but shades of grey, and cerberus is definatly shady and grey. Just like the CIA/MI6 the new KGB

Thanks. Before I thought they were a totally private shady group doing shady things, but still mostly on our side(although I still didn't like them). Playing their subplot in ME I learned that they actually started out like the CIA... but even back in ME they had gone COMPLETELY rogue!

So they STARTED out like the CIA but that's not what they are anymore. Cerberus IS like what the cia WOULD BE if the cia was directly responsible for the bombing of USS Cole for it's own shady reasons. Because in ME Cerberus is actually attacking Alliance troops and it pisses me off. Of course now we know that they're helping Shepard stop the Reapers (even if they are luring him into collector traps) so not 100% bad. My first playthrough I would've pegged them as a shade of grey right in the middle between black and white, but knowing what I do now, they're an extremely dark shade of grey if you ask me haha!

Anyway I like greyness too, but I don't like Cerberus, and I hate that being a dick to TIM doesn't score me Renegade points hahaha! by the way yeah, MI6 are probably dicks too hahaha!

[Encarmine]

well rma2110, why do real life organisations mess around in seemingly pointless countries, or support radical goverments in other more pointless countries, unless you have the full picture things do seem pointless and wrong.



I love the lore of warhammer 40'000 for eg, theres plenty of stories of entire worlds being sacrificed for various reasons, if you get into that lore, the tales of what cerberus get upto pale in comparison.



I can see why it was important to test the venom of thresher maws on humans, similer to why I can understand our own goverments testing mind altering drugs on our soldiers, or forcing them to be exposed to the immeadiate aftereffects to nuclear explosions.

[Ship.wreck_]

rma2110 wrote...

Here's what I don't get abou Cerberus ... why use human marines as guinea pigs? The whole thing with the thresher maw seems stupid. It's not like the thresher maw was a huge threat to humanity. They should be concentrating on threats from aliens who are more sentient. Plus, getting on the wrong side of the alliance is not exactly smart. Too heavy a risk for meager results.

I do understand the experiments that gave us Jack. Developing strong biotics in human soldiers is an understandable goal, even if I find the way they went about it reprehensible.

Maybe they were using the Marines as a baseline for comparison to their super soldiers. Can't tell if you're succsessfully making super soldiers if you can't compare them to the standard in an identical test.

So test a group of unwiting Marines against a Thresher see how they do. Then test your Super Soldiers against a Thresher and compare the results.

It could make sense in that context. Plus I think they're shady and small enough to elude the Alliance, and I guess so far they are. Otherwise the Alliance would've wiped them out as soon as they went rogue back in ME... I think it'scrap that they haven't yet, but hey, that's the way the cookie hasn't crumbled yet...

[Wolfknight581]

There are theories that the alliance is in on it.

[Katamariguy]

"F**k these people, f**k their cause. That s**t's over."-Packie MacReary, GTA IV

At least that's how I would have behaved if the game let me. But of course compromise was the best way then, and the Cerberus crew you work with are a friendly, well-intentioned lot. Even Dr. Archer.

EDIT: Not really. 

Modifié par Katamariguy, 15 décembre 2010 - 11:29 .

[Encarmine]

well in terms of cerberus and its relationship with the alliance. its all speculation, but i think cerberus still work for the alliance and earth based goverments. Hell TIM and Admiral Hackett probly meet up for lunch in my mind lol

[Ship.wreck_]

Wolfknight581 wrote...

There are theories that the alliance is in on it.

There's also theories that the US Gov was in on 9/11

And theories that TIM isn't directly responsibly for the attrocities his organisation commited because all those were the fault of some employee that went rogue...

For the record I'm not buying any of them!

[Ship.wreck_]

Encarmine wrote...

well in terms of cerberus and its relationship with the alliance. its all speculation, but i think cerberus still work for the alliance and earth based goverments. Hell TIM and Admiral Hackett probly meet up for lunch in my mind lol

Hackets the one thats always calling you with side missions in ME right? No f***ing way! He was a good guy! Helped you save alot of innocents... or something... i think.

The way Cerberus sees it they're working in the best interest in humans, and to some extent they  are, but they go too far!

I'm sure Osama thinks he's a good guy too hahaha!

[rma2110]

There is a shadowbroker video showing Anderson meeting some guy in a cerberus uniform. He could be an alliance spy though.

Modifié par rma2110, 15 décembre 2010 - 11:38 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Cerberus never went rogue.



Kahoku either made a mistake, or simply used the word "rogue" in the meaning of "bad" ("renegade" in ME sense).

[Ship.wreck_]

Captain Proton wrote...

Yeah, but STG does not work agains their own people - for example, Cerberus transformed an entire colony into Husks.

I hate Cerberus too.

I bet TIM is giving alot about his position away by allowing that star he's orbiting to be visible! Looks pretty uniquee with the red and blue swirls goin on! Let's analyze all the visible / non visible frequencies it's emiting / find a star that matches up and go Man hunting!

That dick didn't even warn me the collector ship was a trap!

[Ship.wreck_]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus never went rogue.

Kahoku either made a mistake, or simply used the word "rogue" in the meaning of "bad" ("renegade" in ME sense).

I don't wanna click that link and get sidetraked, I'll never make it back, explain!

Well Kahoku was a representative of the Aliance, and Cerberus murdered him! I'd pretty much call that the definition of rogue dude. Unless you have some proof Udina or the Council or Anderson or some Much higher ranking member of the Alliance ordered the hit... but then I'd pretty much consider them rogue too...

[Ship.wreck_]

rma2110 wrote...

There is a shadowbroker video showing Anderson meeting some guy in a cerberus uniform. He could be an alliance spy though.

That's cool! Anderson's working all the angles 'cause he's bad ass like that!

[Taki17]

But honestly, who so is stupid, that shows up in the Citadel in a Cerberus uniform? It completly ruines his cover.

The other thing that I don't unterstand, that the quarians identified the Normandy as a Cerberus vessel, and Tali needed to verify, that they are friendly. So the question is, if the quarians know the Cerberus ship IDs, then the Citadel why not? They granted the docking permission in the Citadel to the SR2 without any question, but is is oblivious, that the SR2 is a Cerberus vessel - just look at the Cerberus logos or the crew uniform. And even the Councils says, that Cerberus is their enemy.

Modifié par Captain Proton, 15 décembre 2010 - 11:54 .

[Ship.wreck_]

AWWWW this was on the citadel? Well, wait a sec, Miri and Jacob went on the citadel in their Cerberus uniforms.



By the way, I would've expected the Council to be wayyyy more pissed that I was with Cerberus now!

[Encarmine]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Captain Proton wrote...

Yeah, but STG does not work agains their own people - for example, Cerberus transformed an entire colony into Husks.

I hate Cerberus too.

I bet TIM is giving alot about his position away by allowing that star he's orbiting to be visible! Looks pretty uniquee with the red and blue swirls goin on! Let's analyze all the visible / non visible frequencies it's emiting / find a star that matches up and go Man hunting!

That dick didn't even warn me the collector ship was a trap!

how could he risk warning you when apparently almost anyone can listen into communications.

also we dont know enough about STG history to make a valid judgement even in speculation world.

and read in a previous post, why didnt sheperd just steal the SR2, that would be funny

Sheperd 'im leaving cerberus SCREW YOU'

TIM 'o rly' (presses button)

SR2 either explodes/EDI autopilots the ship back to base/engines turn off

[Ship.wreck_]

Captain Proton wrote...

But honestly, who so is stupid, that shows up in the Citadel in a Cerberus uniform? It completly ruines his cover.

The other thing that I don't unterstand, that the quarians identified the Normandy as a Cerberus vessel, and Tali needed to verify, that they are friendly. So the question is, if the quarians know the Cerberus ship IDs, then the Citadel why not? They granted the docking permission in the Citadel to the SR2 without any question, but is is oblivious, that the SR2 is a Cerberus vessel - just look at the Cerberus logos or the crew uniform. And even the Councils says, that Cerberus is their enemy.

Maybe because Cerberus funded or not, they know it's Shepards vessel... I mean the Council didn't know but you'd think the Space trafic contro would call and be like, "Who the **** is this?"

[Xilizhra]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cerberus never went rogue.

Kahoku either made a mistake, or simply used the word "rogue" in the meaning of "bad" ("renegade" in ME sense).

I don't wanna click that link and get sidetraked, I'll never make it back, explain!

Well Kahoku was a representative of the Aliance, and Cerberus murdered him! I'd pretty much call that the definition of rogue dude. Unless you have some proof Udina or the Council or Anderson or some Much higher ranking member of the Alliance ordered the hit... but then I'd pretty much consider them rogue too...

The short version: Cerberus is willing to kill absolutely anyone who interferes with their leaders' visions of human dominance, regardless of whether or not they're human themselves. There probably isn't proof, but then, that'd be the point of Cerberus: a black ops organization, a kind of sin-eater for the Alliance government, ensuring that it takes the blame for anything nasty the Alliance higher-ups have to do.