107 réponses à ce sujet

[The Unfallen]

I hope my epic Shepard gets a option to epicly crush Cerberus under his iron grasp.

[Ship.wreck_]

Yeah!



Ok the council's a little crappy... but the Citadel rocks socks!



Screw Cerberus, they're dicks with dental!

[Pwner1323]

Let's not.



Why not join them and have aweasome dental!



Want a brochure?

[Pwner1323]

Here, take one....

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

[Ship.wreck_]

That Yellow Bastard wrote...

I hope my epic Shepard gets a option to epicly crush Cerberus under his iron grasp.

Agreed!

On a side note it was really annoying how little sway Anderson had even though he's now a member of the Council. What the hell!!???

Before he was just complaining impudently because he wasn't on the council, and now he's just complaining impudently while he's on the council! What the hell was the point of getting him on it if it's not gonna make any difference? The rest of the council didn't even ask him to help they just made their decisions without his imput at all just like when he was just Captain Anderson.

It felt like the begining of ME when everyone was making it sound like the Specters were practically invincible, and so secretive EVERYTHING they did, and EVERYWHERE they went was classified! Then when you become one, everyone acts like all of a sudden Specters are no big deal... "What's that? A Specter? Oh well, kill the Specter." you spend the rest of the game getting this kind of reaction from even the most half assed two bit thugs! Ridiculous. Oh yeah and everyone knows everything you're doing and where you've been and where you going etc etc. What the hell hapened to classified?

[Ship.wreck_]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Let's not.

Why not join them and have aweasome dental!

Want a brochure?

I may be a dick... but I don't want your damn dental!

[Pwner1323]

It's politics+video games. What did you expect? Everyone outside the Normandy or Cerberus are a bunch of morons.

[Pwner1323]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

Let's not.

Why not join them and have aweasome dental!

Want a brochure?

I may be a dick... but I don't want your damn dental!

......................... free college degrees?.............................................

[Ship.wreck_]

Already got mine! Came with my commision in the Navy!

[Pwner1323]

Dammit!



We need to innovate.... oh wait......

[Ship.wreck_]

Yeah forgot that Commander status didn't you!

[Pwner1323]

Noooooooooooo...........



Yeeeeeeeeeees......................

[Ship.wreck_]

Hahahahaha!



Somehow reminds me of Invader Zim to Ger, "What are you doing?"

Ger (blank stare), "iiii don't knowwww..."



Stop trying to recruit me, it's not gonna happen!

[lovgreno]

Cerberus can afford a excelent dental plan and retirement plan for their employees as no one lives long enough to have use for them.

[Ship.wreck_]

EXACTLY hahaha!

[Encarmine]

when this game goes online mmo style, im going to be Cerberus all the way

[Dean_the_Young]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Well, first, there were Turian vessels. They're hard to see, and are barely a side note on the 'approach' cut scene, but they were there.

Secondly, they were already dead. So, aid to dead Turians is kinda... well, not very effective.

You walking into a trap prepared that it was a trap would have triggered the trap too early making it a pointless exercise. Yes, these things do happen in reality as well (where someone needs to be sent to do something in ignorance).

Well he SAID the Turians were alive and needed help. So either way his lie averted me to doing the mission when the truth would have made me want to do it.

No he didn't.

Secondly, they wouldn't trigger the trap early. When I get there THEY HAVE NO IDEA if I know it's a trap or not, so they're going to spring it exactly according to their ORIGINAL plan. The only difference it makes if I know is that I won't be completely suprised and caught off gaurd when they do spring the trap on me.

...it's totally uncool for TIM to lie to you about what's going on, but it's perfectly fine for you to lie to your subordinates? Yeah, there's a word for that. It begins with H and ends with ypocrisy.

In fact the fact that I showed up at all would tell them that I don't know it's a trap even if the truth is that I do.

The fact you'd even argue that there is an inherent link just goes to show why you aren't cut out for games of double-blind fake-outs.

[Ship.wreck_]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Well, first, there were Turian vessels. They're hard to see, and are barely a side note on the 'approach' cut scene, but they were there.

Secondly, they were already dead. So, aid to dead Turians is kinda... well, not very effective.

You walking into a trap prepared that it was a trap would have triggered the trap too early making it a pointless exercise. Yes, these things do happen in reality as well (where someone needs to be sent to do something in ignorance).

Well he SAID the Turians were alive and needed help. So either way his lie averted me to doing the mission when the truth would have made me want to do it.

No he didn't.

Yes he did. He distinctly mentioned a cripled Turian vessel broadcasting a distress signal which he intercepted and was refusing to relay to the Citadel until the mission was complete. So I told him to notify the Turians so they could help their damaged ship's crew and he continued to refuse until the mission was complete which pissed me off. If he had been open that everyone was dead he wouldn't tell me, "No I'm not relaying the signal" He'd tell me, "It doesn't mater they're all dead." But he didn't say the later, did he.

Secondly, they wouldn't trigger the trap early. When I get there THEY HAVE NO IDEA if I know it's a trap or not, so they're going to spring it exactly according to their ORIGINAL plan. The only difference it makes if I know is that I won't be completely suprised and caught off gaurd when they do spring the trap on me.

...it's totally uncool for TIM to lie to you about what's going on, but it's perfectly fine for you to lie to your subordinates? Yeah, there's a word for that. It begins with H and ends with ypocrisy.

I never lie to my subordinates, and I never said that I have, am, or ever will. So way-to-spout some random stuff that has nothing to do with anything I've said dude.

In fact the fact that I showed up at all would tell them that I don't know it's a trap even if the truth is that I do.

The fact you'd even argue that there is an inherent link just goes to show why you aren't cut out for games of double-blind fake-outs.

You're the one arguing that if I knew it was a trap they would somehow magically know that I know, and thus alter their plan to spring the trap early. That sounds more like an argument for an inherent link than my, "THEY HAVE NO IDEA if I know it's a trap..." obvious argument for a lack of inherent links.

Not to mention the fact that it wouldn't even matter if they sprung their trap early. That would only mean the difference between fighting Harbinger and his goon squad slightly before selecting my special weapon, instead of slightly after... which to me, being the guy that has to fight them all either way, means no difference

[chris025657]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Yes he did. He distinctly mentioned a cripled Turian vessel broadcasting a distress signal which he intercepted and was refusing to relay to the Citadel until the mission was complete. So I told him to notify the Turians so they could help their damaged ship's crew and he continued to refuse until the mission was complete which pissed me off. If he had been open that everyone was dead he wouldn't tell me, "No I'm not relaying the signal" He'd tell me, "It doesn't mater they're all dead." But he didn't say the later, did he.

As I said earlier, the Illusive man said that the Turians were wiped out. There was no lying about the Turians still being alive. He said "The Turians were wiped out, but not before they crippled the Collector vessel" at about 0:13. There was no mention of helping the Turians, Shepard only asked if the Turians were investigating. 

Modifié par chris025657, 16 décembre 2010 - 12:54 .

[Arijharn]

lovgreno wrote...

Cerberus being competent, responsible, efficent and still a part of the Alliance are all just speculations. However we do have plenty of examples of the opposite of these things. Sure, Failberus was a part of the story in ME2 but please let us have something new and different than space Cobra in ME3. TIMmys oh so mysterious and unthrustworthy style got boring rather fast.

I think they should skirt the middle, but I think in ME3 there should be rather explicit mentioning of benefits from Lazarus Project being filtered into the public domain by human medical establishments, even ones that are on the surface so utterly pacifistic like Sirta Foundation. I think some other mentions like medical exoskeletons referencing 'upgrades' made to Shephard (such as direct spinal column medi-gel injectors) should be made in ME3 as well. I guess then the problem could be that they could be so subtle that many people miss it, so I guess a bit of a compromise would have to be made.

And Zulu, you know I love your conspiracy theories and all that, but declaring Shephard a 'traitor' just makes me think of the nonsense that the King of Shadows says at the end of Neverwinter Nights 2, that believing that the Illefarn Empire is no more is tantamount to actually causing it to fall in the first place, and then he attacks you for 'sedition.'

[lovgreno]

Yes Arijharn, that would be a interesting twist of the story and fit in with one of the themes of ME: No one is all bad. And of course I have to assume that Cerberus isn't as clumsy as they seem some times even though what we do see of them is rather sad. If they were completely hopeless Shep would not follow them at all.

[Arijharn]

lovgreno wrote...

Yes Arijharn, that would be a interesting twist of the story and fit in with one of the themes of ME: No one is all bad. And of course I have to assume that Cerberus isn't as clumsy as they seem some times even though what we do see of them is rather sad. If they were completely hopeless Shep would not follow them at all.

I just think it's incredibly childish really if they made Cerberus really 'failberus' as you put it. It makes me think of the Decepticons who never seem to have any successes (I admit, I wasn't a 'real' fan when growing up, although I made sure I watched the episodes) and despite this, they kept on going. I mean, they get an 'A+' for effort, but that doesn't really mean anything surely?

I got the impression that BioWare tried to make the Mass Effect universe believable, and I think for the most part they are generally successful. I would also put Cerberus' efforts to resurrect Shephard as a massive 'success story' but half of me thinks that it 'failed' in regards to Wilson just so we could have at least a half interesting tutorial level. Maybe that's just me though.

[Zulu_DFA]

Arijharn wrote...

but half of me thinks that it 'failed' in regards to Wilson just so we could have at least a half interesting tutorial level. Maybe that's just me though.

EDIT: never mind.

[Dean_the_Young]

Learn to use quoting appropriately. It makes it murder to reply.

Yes he did. He distinctly mentioned a cripled Turian vessel broadcasting a distress signal which he intercepted and was refusing to relay to the Citadel until the mission was complete. So I told him to notify the Turians so they could help their damaged ship's crew and he continued to refuse until the mission was complete which pissed me off. If he had been open that everyone was dead he wouldn't tell me, "No I'm not relaying the signal" He'd tell me, "It doesn't mater they're all dead." But he didn't say the later, did he.

Broadcasting a distress signal does not mean that there are survivors. A distress signal does not turn off when the survivors die, nor does it require survivors to be started. Back in ME1, you found more than one empty, dead ship and automated distress signal. You find the sort more than once in ME2 as well, particularly in regards to a few N7 missions. Distress signals are automatic as well as triggered, and all they indicate is something happened, not signs that someone is still alive or present on a ship.

Moreover, the distress signal sent wasn't from the Turians at all. It was from the Collectors, comprehende?

TIM never said there were Turian survivors, only a Turian distress beacon. Moreover, Shepard's comments about letting the Turians investigate do not suggest or imply there are survivors either: an investigation force would be sent regardless of whether there were survivors or not.

There was no suggestion or mention of Turian survivors, nor were there any. You assumed it, but that doesn't make it true.

I never lie to my subordinates, and I never said that I have, am, or ever will. So way-to-spout some random stuff that has nothing to do with anything I've said dude.

Besides the obvious point of polite lies, tact, and need-to-know basis, you directly suggested that Shepard should be told while not letting others know, so that they wouldn't give any sign (deliberate or unconscious) that they were walking into a trap while Shepard could react with knowledge.

That's pretty much holding the truth from them, and it's the same argument that can be deployed by the Illusive Man: the risks of Shepard even accidentally giving away he knows there is a trap, let alone anyone else on the ship, can outweigh the benefits. TIM's judgement that you would be able to fight your way out is vindicated by the fact that you were able to fight your way out.

You're the one arguing that if I knew it was a trap they would somehow magically know that I know, and thus alter their plan to spring the trap early. That sounds more like an argument for an inherent link than my, "THEY HAVE NO IDEA if I know it's a trap..." obvious argument for a lack of inherent links.

If you knew it was a trap, you can very well act differently without meaning to.  There are ways that people act when they don't know something, and there are ways that people act when they do know something but are pretending they don't, and those aren't always subtle. Behavioral analysis is great like that. The Collectors always have the choice of pulling the bait away if they get suspicious for any reason.

Besides that, there is the (justified and vindicated) concerns that the Normandy itself is vulnerable to intelligence leaks. Which, in fact, it is, from unsanctioned cameras about in the Normandy to access to computer systems (see Shadow Broker, and see also in-game suspicions by Cerberus that Harbinger's network is just as good as the Shadow Broker's). Even if TIM outright tells the truth, there is the risk it can get out even if Shepard tells no one (which you've said you would and yet wouldn't do). If Shepard does tell someone, even someone who would never knowingly betray the mission, the risks multiply for many of the same reasons: eavesdropping on the Normandy, accidental exposures, and altered behavior on the Collecotr Cruiser itself.

There's only one proven way in history to prevent someone from spreading a secret, willingly or unwillingly.

Not to mention the fact that it wouldn't even matter if they sprung their trap early. That would only mean the difference between fighting Harbinger and his goon squad slightly before selecting my special weapon, instead of slightly after... which to me, being the guy that has to fight them all either way, means no difference

If they were forced to spring the trap early, they could prevent Shepard from ever being able to access the central database at all, which has all the information he needs in the first place. The ways are varied, starting with simply flying the database podium to an inaccessible location and going to deliberately deleting the information they were using as bait before Shepard can get EDI accessed to it. Either one means that Shepard's mission fails, even if he does still fight his way out.

Which, mind you, becomes increasingly less likely if Shepard has to fight his way not only out, but also into the ship. As it was, Shepard barely made a dramatic last-minute escape before the Cruiser was on and about to shoot down the Normandy. If Shepard had to fight his way to the data base (taking longer to do it while the Cruiser is powering up), fight through the Podium challenge again (if it's even still there), even if we handwave away all other concerns and say he got access to the data regardless, he's going to have to fight even more enemies who've had more time to move in and block him and the exit.

If cannon route A barely made it, and alternate route B faces significantly more enemies and time given to the Collectors to stop Shepard's escape and to blow up the Normandy...

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 16 décembre 2010 - 03:04 .

[lovgreno]

Arijharn wrote...
I just think it's incredibly childish really if they made Cerberus really 'failberus' as you put it. It makes me think of the Decepticons who never seem to have any successes (I admit, I wasn't a 'real' fan when growing up, although I made sure I watched the episodes) and despite this, they kept on going. I mean, they get an 'A+' for effort, but that doesn't really mean anything surely?

I got the impression that BioWare tried to make the Mass Effect universe believable, and I think for the most part they are generally successful. I would also put Cerberus' efforts to resurrect Shephard as a massive 'success story' but half of me thinks that it 'failed' in regards to Wilson just so we could have at least a half interesting tutorial level. Maybe that's just me though.

Don't take my lame attempts of being clever and funny serious please. In any case Cerberus has accomplished a very good thing with resurecting Shepard even if their clumsyness almost ruined that project too. Sure their efforts to aid Shepard often harms our hero (and quite possibly the humanity they want to help as well in the long run) more than helps him/her but at least they are trying to do something about the reapers. A part of the dilemma and drama of the ME2 story is that Shep has a very questionable ally in Cerberus and we are always reminded of that Shep pays a high price, possibly costing him/her even a victory against the reapers, for working with them.