18 réponses à ce sujet

[Gecon]

I am kinda surpised nobody attempts a D&D4 game ?

[metatheurgist]

And the answer is still lawsuit. Though there might be movement on the NWN MMO.

[Ranger Solo]

Doesn't look good for the near future for us SP users. WOTC should be ashamed of themselves for not getting this matter cleared up. We know the companies in the lawsuit could careless because they know no shame.

[avado]

Gecon wrote...

I am kinda surpised nobody attempts a D&D4 game ?

I am kinda surprised that people keep asking!  I am most certain that IF the lawsuit is decided, the forums will be FULL of it! 

[metatheurgist]

Aren't forums always full of it? The best comment I read on the lawsuit was:

This is a perfect example of why a party of Chaotic Evil never works.

[Ticladesign]

With D&D Daggerdale announced, is this the somewhat proof the lawsuit between Atari and WotC is out of the air?



Seems like a brand new title, and both sides seem to be getting along again.



It just adds to the confusion about the whole WotC/Atari situation, so asking if anyone knows more now Daggerdale is announced.

[MasterChanger]

Ticladesign wrote...

With D&D Daggerdale announced, is this the somewhat proof the lawsuit between Atari and WotC is out of the air?

Seems like a brand new title, and both sides seem to be getting along again.

Whaaaaat.

Gameplay-wise, it offers "pick up and play combat", alongside a load of
weapons, feats and powers. Atari says the switch in play style is part
of their desire to expand the audience; Wizards of the Coast claims it
will appeal to newcomers and vets. So while it won't be a hardcore
experience, that doesn't mean it won't be enjoyable if you open your
mind to it a bit. We'll have to see once it hits in the spring.

Clearly, Atari (and WotC?) has decided that the best way to rake in sales is to capitalize on the easy-entry MMO and console markets. What this means is that D&D will become less and less distinct from any other fantasy-based games out there.

They've clearly decided their games don't need communities with loyalty that spans a decade. They don't need toolsets.

I fully believe that it's time to show Atari that easily-picked-up also means easily-put-down. They think that by making superficial games that draw a broader audience (of one-time purchasers) the hardcore fans won't miss the lack of depth. This is what it means to be taken for granted.

"Atari proudly announced back in August they'd settle their dispute with Hasbro and could return to the Dungeons & Dragons license, and were with online RPG Neverwinter." Oh really? Then where's patch 1.24?

Modifié par MasterChanger, 23 décembre 2010 - 01:54 .

[metatheurgist]

They're refering to the NWN MMO which has nothing to do with the NWN RPG. Daggerdale looks like an action game in the line of Champions of Norath, not an actual RPG.

[Ticladesign]

Okay, this then affirms the whole WotC-Hasbro legal issues are settled.



That other D&D themed games are being made to attract a wider audience, especially on consoles, is understandable. And could in effect fund a new nevewinter nights game as well. Same goes with the MMO - which isnt my thing, I prefer a MP mode NWN style - but no doubt there are players/consumers interested in the Cryptic game.



I would like to see if Atari could then shed some light if there's plans to serve the hardcore and loyal fans of the neverwinter nights franchise as well.



Daggerdale isnt bad - there have been games like that before, even during the high days of NWN and NWN2. An action RPG D&D game doesnt hurt the future of the harddcore D&D franchises, as long as there's enough funding going to a Hardcore game as well. (Only Atari can answer that question, off course)





Long story short, now th legal troubles seem over, then yes there's always a chance of NWN4. But that answer lies solely with Atari.

[dunniteowl]

Actually, if anything, it makes things more confusing than ever. Yesterday I just discovered through assistance of IRC NWN2Chat communications that on the 7th of December, Hasbro filed an update to it's suit seeking to remove the license for D&D products from Atari. I am not going to go into details other than to say it looks like Hasbro is now intent on scuttling Atari's plans for both NWO and Daggerdale. The link to see the latest filings is here: http://www.mercuric....hasbro_v_atari/

Just note that the latest update times are not necessarily when those court documents were filed, just the last time they were updated. Everything listed as 22 December 2010 is as fresh as you're going to get. There is no news posting anywhere that I can find that discusses the events, but it's clear that, after languishing a year since initial filings, Hasbro has once again begun to apply some heat to Atari.

So. Is Atari actually being backed on NWO with Hasbro/WotC? Indicators appear to be yes, Hasbro/WotC seems to be doing it's best to 'cooperate' with their licensee Atari to get some D&D gaming out the door. Are they hand in glove? Apparently not, based on reading the filings.

Daggerdale? It's hard to tell, but Daggerdale is part of the Dalelands and fits very closely with Icewind Dale. For that reason, it may be that this offering is the "straw" that broke Hasbro's back in regards to playing it cool and waiting to see if Atari would become more forthcoming about the events that made Hasbro file in the first place. The exhibit files indicate that Hasbro believes that Atari is trying to pull a Patent/Trademark Infringement stunt with the Icewind Dale IP, effectively claiming it as their own. So it may be that this latest round of filings is indicative that Hasbro's had enough and it isn't going to settle easily.

Even so, Atari has officially announced back in August, Never Winter Online, slated for release in late 2011 and just the other day, Daggerdale, slated to be released in March of 2011.

Just what the hell is actually going on? We may never really know for years to come.

dno

[NWN DM]

MasterChanger wrote...

They've clearly decided their games don't need communities with loyalty that spans a decade. They don't need toolsets.

I fully believe that it's time to show Atari that easily-picked-up also means easily-put-down. They think that by making superficial games that draw a broader audience (of one-time purchasers) the hardcore fans won't miss the lack of depth. This is what it means to be taken for granted.

They don't care - by the time you put it down, they already have your money. 

Short term gain is all the bean counters understand.

Company executives' bonus structure is based on performance in the 'here and now', not in '10 years of longevity', so unfortunately this kind of approach is being driven by exactly that.

[Dorateen]

Ticladesign wrote...

Daggerdale isnt bad - there have been games like that before, even during the high days of NWN and NWN2. An action RPG D&D game doesnt hurt the future of the harddcore D&D franchises, as long as there's enough funding going to a Hardcore game as well. (Only Atari can answer that question, off course)

I agree with this statement. Even way back when, during the golden age of CRPGs, there were multiple D&D titles of differing style. "Dungeon Hack" and the old Dragonlance "Dragon Strike" for examples.

I'm a bit surprised that WotC is going with a D&D-lite game as a way to start their 4E computer titles. But, whatever. I would be curious to see if the PC version is a bit "meatier" and intricate. Afterall, Pool of Radiance came out on consoles as well, and it was naturally dumbed down from the PC version.

The adventure design approach for Daggerdale seems decent enough, although it could easily have been another NWN2 module.

Long live NWN2

Harumph! 

Modifié par Dorateen, 23 décembre 2010 - 03:59 .

[SuperFly_2000]

D&D Daggerdale....great....another mainstream crap action D&D MMO for kids...just what we needed. Isn't D&D Online enough?

Anyway....knock yourselves out...have a ball...


About NWN3...yes there will be an "NWN3" but actually it will not follow that number series and also it will be more geared towards multiplayer....which kind of makes me very interested in what it will be. I only hope that it will not fall in the super ultra mainstream pit like any other game theese days.


Oh yeah...one more thing. That they even have the guts to call theese games roleplaying games makes me want to say bad things to them....

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:54 .

[foil-]

Ticladesign wrote...

Okay, this then affirms the whole WotC-Hasbro legal issues are settled.

That other D&D themed games are being made to attract a wider audience, especially on consoles, is understandable. And could in effect fund a new nevewinter nights game as well. Same goes with the MMO - which isnt my thing, I prefer a MP mode NWN style - but no doubt there are players/consumers interested in the Cryptic game.

I would like to see if Atari could then shed some light if there's plans to serve the hardcore and loyal fans of the neverwinter nights franchise as well.

Daggerdale isnt bad - there have been games like that before, even during the high days of NWN and NWN2. An action RPG D&D game doesnt hurt the future of the harddcore D&D franchises, as long as there's enough funding going to a Hardcore game as well. (Only Atari can answer that question, off course)


Long story short, now th legal troubles seem over, then yes there's always a chance of NWN4. But that answer lies solely with Atari.

Pretty much agree with all of that.
-More variety is a repeat of the post gold box time (and somewhat during goldbox).  "3D" action RPGs were common fare and eventually lead up to Baldur's Gate.

Its also fairly smart of Atari to attempt to jump on the Left for Dead co-op band wagon (which is also a part of what D&D is truelly supposed to be).  ...did someone just say military intelligence?

Plus the above co-op game being digital download means it will likely come in at a lower price point and just test the waters of viability (spring 2011 release is way to short for a full blown strategy RPG game). It may be a concession by Atari to Hasbro to get something going on the digital front...and fast.

Finally: companies can still do business while protecting their interests with lawsuits.  These are corporations run by fellas with thick skin.  At the CEO level, both companies will still want to make money and take advantage of the D&D license regardless of in court disputes.  Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc, are suing their partners all the time when one or the other steps to far.  If they let it happen they risk waiving their rights to the property.  It doesn't stop them from doing business though.  So regardless if the lawsuit is settled or not, both parties will still attempt to make some moola out of the property even if they are in stalemate in court.  At least that's my guess at the situation.

[BartjeD]

Still it's gutsy to invest in a license you may well lose. If the suit includes the new game that is.



The way I imagine it that would mean additional infringement and that means you would have to pay more compensation if you lost. I haven't read the charges though.

[NWN DM]

BartjeD wrote...

Still it's gutsy to invest in a license you may well lose. If the suit includes the new game that is.

The way I imagine it that would mean additional infringement and that means you would have to pay more compensation if you lost. I haven't read the charges though.

Atari could also argue that, as they started these games in good faith, even if they loose the license, the court could allow them to release the titles and support them under the auspices of the contract (or make the other side buy out their investment).

Technically this could just be positioning that makes sense at some level.

Or Atari could just be Atariing (i.e. FUBARing) themselves....

Modifié par NWN DM, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:51 .

[painofdungeoneternal]

Or their back is up against a wall, and seeing developers getting shy after what happened with bioware, obsidian, and ossian, they decide the best avenue is to purchase a developer entirely -- having development in house means atari itself holds most of the cards and can say it provides a lot more than just distribution.

While it might not be what you call a wise investment, it ensures they have a chance of making another shippable product which they are hoping is such a blockbuster that even Hasbro will have no choice but to give it a green light, and it ensures they never lose control - i have to say if i was Atari i would do that, but then if i were hasbro i never would have sold off the gaming division they used to own.

Frankly we just don't know, not a clue what is going on. It could be genius, or it could just be stubbornly going down with the ship - the difference is generally only known long afterwards, we'll have to wait and see.

But to me the damage is being done to the game and to the brand, and i see it going to trial and being fought by lawyers, not to mention the year of not releasing MOW next month to add some DRM. I see both Atari and Hasbro as just getting in the way, of folks like obsidian and ossian and bioware, let the developers develop, they have done much better at marketing and promoting the D&D brand than these so called publishers who seem better in a courtroom and doing overly complicated business deals - ( example being the entire history of Atari, which was a subsidiary of Hasbro, got sold since it did not look good on the annual report and ended up becoming the company that purchased it since that looks good on the annual report, and all the while Hasbro and Atari are moving the same IP over and over between each other as convenient this month - it sounds like a really bad tv movie. )

Frankly if they were smart they'd give obisidian a check each month and tell em make things which make us money while we fight, and do the same with a few other developers. It comes down to the old adage, lead, follow, or get out of the way. Oftentimes the biggest issues is when companies can't get out of their own way.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[CrnaOvca]

dunniteowl wrote...
Daggerdale? It's hard to tell, but Daggerdale is part of the Dalelands and fits very closely with Icewind Dale. For that reason, it may be that this offering is the "straw" that broke Hasbro's back in regards to playing it cool and waiting to see if Atari would become more forthcoming about the events that made Hasbro file in the first place. The exhibit files indicate that Hasbro believes that Atari is trying to pull a Patent/Trademark Infringement stunt with the Icewind Dale IP, effectively claiming it as their own. So it may be that this latest round of filings is indicative that Hasbro's had enough and it isn't going to settle easily.

Daggerdale has nothing to do with Icewind Dale. Those two regions are as far away from each other as is Sweden from Italy.
Only thing in common is the Dale part of the name but they are not from the same Dale.

[dunniteowl]

When I said they "fit very closely" I didn't mean to imply they were "next door neighbors" or anything. What I intended was that they were both part of the Dalelands and while some of them are separated by a fair distance, they are the North and South extremes of the Dalelands. I think the whole Daggerdale offering might be where some of the new filings come from, though with so little actual 'dialogue' being presented by either party, it's nearly impossible to be definitive on anything.

My point above though, is still salient. It seems that Daggerdale might be part of what Hasbro is upset with Atari about in recent months due to Atari apparently claiming that D&D IP, that belongs to WotC (which means it also belongs to parent company Hasbro) as it's own. I can only surmise that it is Daggerdale, based on inferences to Icewind Dale and a few other Forgotten Realms references to Atari presenting these IPs as theirs and intending to market them as such.

No other offerings from Atari are even more than hinted at in the press or in the filings under any search I have managed. I do know that, according to the press releases with NWO, WotC is clearly working with Atari to get the product up to snuff and out the door.

Sorry for the imprecise language.

dunniteowl