104 réponses à ce sujet

[Naitaka]

The definition of blood magic is somewhat vague in the first place. Is all magic concerning blood considered blood magic? Those that use blood as a power source? Those that use blood as a component? Those that manipulate blood as a result? I remember Flinn making comment about how the spell he used to find the the shard in WH getting awfully close to the domain of blood magic but it only uses blood as a component of the spell.

[Harid]

AlexXIV wrote...

Drawing from the strength or life force of others isn't inherently evil in my book. It depends on the situation. Let's say you think everyone is going to die, your party, the people you want to protect, etc. The only way out you see is using bloodmagic, which weakens some people (maybe kills a small number) but saves the majority, then it is surely not the most heroic course of action, but nessessary. It just happens in games like this that being the goody two shoe type of character leads to happy ending because you can pull off anything even without making questionable decisions. So the evil guy is left with being evil for the sake of evil, and never evil because you didn't have a choice.

This is more because Bioware writes evil poorly than a specific problem with RPG's and evil choices to begin with.

I believe The Witcher handles "evil" and "good" choices a bit better.

[AlexXIV]

Yeah funny thing is the chantry uses blood to track mages. Kinda funny, since they have means to store blood in phylacterys, which is not much different from what hospitals do. And if you use it for a good cause then it can't be evil, right? Especially if doesn't really cost anyone anything.

[Eveangaline]

Well there's the fact that blood magic has a long history of being used for evil, which has painted it in a dark light. Being the main weapon of an empire that used it to control peoples bodies against their will, and drain people to death to increase the power of Tevinter, for what, hundreds of years? Obvoiusly that's going to make it look bad to people, even if there could be perfectly good ways of using it. (Though frankly I'd say ever using someones energy without their permission, even if you think you're doing it for their benefit, would be pretty hard to justify as 'good'...except for darkspawn of course, **** darkspawn)

[AlexXIV]

Harid wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Drawing from the strength or life force of others isn't inherently evil in my book. It depends on the situation. Let's say you think everyone is going to die, your party, the people you want to protect, etc. The only way out you see is using bloodmagic, which weakens some people (maybe kills a small number) but saves the majority, then it is surely not the most heroic course of action, but nessessary. It just happens in games like this that being the goody two shoe type of character leads to happy ending because you can pull off anything even without making questionable decisions. So the evil guy is left with being evil for the sake of evil, and never evil because you didn't have a choice.

This is more because Bioware writes evil poorly than a specific problem with RPG's and evil choices to begin with.

I believe The Witcher handles "evil" and "good" choices a bit better.

Not really. I don't remember one evil thing in the Witcher that you have to do to save the day. Mostly games have some sort of social responsiblitily, so they have to teach the players that being good is the right thing to do. I would wish that in a game you can at some points only save everyone by doing rather questionable things and get a rather questionable reputation as well. For example you choose the 'white knight' path and much more people die and worse things happen than if you choose for example to use blood magic which makes you directly sacrifice lifes, but saves more in the end. So the price for being the morally 'perfect' person would be to be far less efficient.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:41 .

[AlexXIV]

Eveangaline wrote...

Well there's the fact that blood magic has a long history of being used for evil, which has painted it in a dark light. Being the main weapon of an empire that used it to control peoples bodies against their will, and drain people to death to increase the power of Tevinter, for what, hundreds of years? Obvoiusly that's going to make it look bad to people, even if there could be perfectly good ways of using it. (Though frankly I'd say ever using someones energy without their permission, even if you think you're doing it for their benefit, would be pretty hard to justify as 'good'...except for darkspawn of course, **** darkspawn)

I don't want it to be justify-able. That would be just the same as being the good guy. Let the people hate you as long you know you did the right thing.

Edit: Well an example would be the dark ritual. You can at least save your own or Alistairs life. But you don't learn the consequences of your actions in the game, so it is not really an 'evil' you could grasp. We don't even know if ANYTHING bad comes from it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:42 .

[Amyntas]

KDawg0713 wrote...

 I'm really curious about whether or not blood magic will be learned from another demon or maybe a blood mage this time.  I want to know about all specs, but as I'm seriously considering doing a blood mage who is actually a good person, I was wondering if learning it will require me to do something really evil again.

My guess is that Merrill will teach blood magic. She can apparently be seen using blood magic and summoning a demon in a screenshot, although that's not confirmed.

[Naitaka]

AlexXIV wrote...

Not really. I don't remember one evil thing in the Witcher that you have to do to save the day. Mostly games have some sort of social responsiblitily, so they have to teach the players that being good is the right thing to do. I would wish that in a game you can at some points only save everyone by doing rather questionable things and get a rather questionable reputation as well. For example you choose the 'white knight' path and much more people die and worse things happen than if you choose for example to use blood magic which makes you directly sacrifice lifes, but saves more in the end. So the price for being the morally 'perfect' person would be to be far less efficient.

How exactly do you measure such price though? Solely based on the number of lives it cost? Or based on upholding certain moral principle? To mind control a child with blood magic and make him assassinate a rampaging tyrant knowing fully he'll die in the attempt or to send hundreds of willing men and women to their death in order to destroy the same tyrant in an all out battle. Which of those situation incurs a higher cost? And who is paying that price in the end?

[AlexXIV]

Naitaka wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Not really. I don't remember one evil thing in the Witcher that you have to do to save the day. Mostly games have some sort of social responsiblitily, so they have to teach the players that being good is the right thing to do. I would wish that in a game you can at some points only save everyone by doing rather questionable things and get a rather questionable reputation as well. For example you choose the 'white knight' path and much more people die and worse things happen than if you choose for example to use blood magic which makes you directly sacrifice lifes, but saves more in the end. So the price for being the morally 'perfect' person would be to be far less efficient.

How exactly do you measure such price though? Solely based on the number of lives it cost? Or based on upholding certain moral principle? To mind control a child with blood magic and make him assassinate a rampaging tyrant knowing fully he'll die in the attempt or to send hundreds of willing men and women to their death in order to destroy the same tyrant in an all out battle. Which of those situation incurs a higher cost? And who is paying that price in the end?

I don't need clear answers to moral questions. Yes if I can assassinate a tyrant as in opposite to go to an honorable frontal war which will cause thousands and hundret thousands of deaths I consider it a good choice. Also sacrificing one innocent life (let's say a child) to save thousands seems not a price too high. I don't want to be seen as the hero after that, it is sort of a bad thing to do. But I also want that those who always make sure their 'honor' doesn't get a blood stain pay a price for their 'selfishness'. Since I consider it selfish to put your own morality and clean conscience above the life of thousands.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 15 janvier 2011 - 09:01 .

[Naitaka]

Seems like a very Grey Warden-ish attitude, then I'm sure DA2 would accomidate that character pretty well if they take the same approach to blood magic as they did in DA:O.

[AlexXIV]

Naitaka wrote...

Seems like a very Grey Warden-ish attitude, then I'm sure DA2 would accomidate that character pretty well if they take the same approach to blood magic as they did in DA:O.

Well it is also the justification of assassins. They are hardly known or even held in high regard by the public. They use any means available to do the job, if it is poisoning food, backstabbing or slitting throats of sleeping victims. But sometimes one assassin can achieve what a whole army couldn't.

[commanderVal]

In all my Dragon age playthroughs, I've only played as  mage once. And the specs that I chose for that were blood mage and arcane warrior- the second cuz I have a thing for the Warden Commander armour.
Aaaanyway, I love blood magic and I love what Avernus' research gives us in that area. The ones for my favourite warrior class are all very fine but that blood grip thingie is awe-frikkin-some!! I really hope that blood magic returns in DA2 and I don't care if I have to slit a bunny's throat to get it- I am getting it *if* I play a mage!

[Silhouelle]

Just came across this pic on IGN, thought you folks might be interested. :3 Looks like a potential oportunity to learn some blood magic, wouldn't you say? 

Modifié par Silhouelle, 15 janvier 2011 - 09:57 .

[RavenStorm]

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

[Naitaka]

RavenStorm wrote...

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

Merrill, mysterious male mage that has yet to be annouced, Flemeth, Jowan, just about every blood mage you can think of?

[AlexXIV]

RavenStorm wrote...

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

Judging by her facial expression someone she is gonna kill soon.

[Naitaka]

AlexXIV wrote...

RavenStorm wrote...

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

Judging by her facial expression someone she is gonna kill soon.

Definately Jowan then I hope.

[JConst]

- How will we obtain blood magic this time?

- Merrill will teach us, obviously

[commanderVal]

AlexXIV wrote...

RavenStorm wrote...

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

Judging by her facial expression someone she is gonna kill soon.

They have facial expressions in DA2??!! Oh joy!!

[marshalleck]

commanderVal wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

RavenStorm wrote...

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

Judging by her facial expression someone she is gonna kill soon.

They have facial expressions in DA2??!! Oh joy!!

[Naitaka]

marshalleck wrote...

commanderVal wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

RavenStorm wrote...

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

Judging by her facial expression someone she is gonna kill soon.

They have facial expressions in DA2??!! Oh joy!!

DAMN you beat me to it!

[commanderVal]

marshalleck wrote...

commanderVal wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

RavenStorm wrote...

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

Judging by her facial expression someone she is gonna kill soon.

They have facial expressions in DA2??!! Oh joy!!

I walked right into that one..

[drahelvete]

commanderVal wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

commanderVal wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

RavenStorm wrote...

We have any guesses as to whom Fem-Hawke is talking to?

Judging by her facial expression someone she is gonna kill soon.

They have facial expressions in DA2??!! Oh joy!!

I walked right into that one..

Yikes! Uncanny Valley, indeed.
Reminds me of
 

Modifié par drahelvete, 15 janvier 2011 - 01:25 .

[atheelogos]

Harid wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Drawing from the strength or life force of others isn't inherently evil in my book. It depends on the situation. Let's say you think everyone is going to die, your party, the people you want to protect, etc. The only way out you see is using bloodmagic, which weakens some people (maybe kills a small number) but saves the majority, then it is surely not the most heroic course of action, but nessessary. It just happens in games like this that being the goody two shoe type of character leads to happy ending because you can pull off anything even without making questionable decisions. So the evil guy is left with being evil for the sake of evil, and never evil because you didn't have a choice.

This is more because Bioware writes evil poorly than a specific problem with RPG's and evil choices to begin with.

I believe The Witcher handles "evil" and "good" choices a bit better.

You couldn't be more wrong. They've said a number of times they try not to write evil, or in terms of black and white. Instead they consider most things grey areas.

[atheelogos]

JConst wrote...

- How will we obtain blood magic this time?
- Merrill will teach us, obviously

I have a feeling that Hawke already knows a bit about blood magic at the beginning of the game. It may be that his father gave his sister and him the knowledge earlier in life. Perhaps before the game even begins.