104 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

atheelogos wrote...
I have a feeling that Hawke already knows a bit about blood magic at the beginning of the game. It may be that his father gave his sister and him the knowledge earlier in life. Perhaps before the game even begins.

This!  Hawke-dad was probably like "now, if you every REALLY need to, this is how you get your blood magic on."  But in Lothering... Hawke never needed to.

[Potato Cat]

FemHawke is clearly talking to Merrill. I think I even remember reading Merrill uses blood magic to.......do something. And since she's a blood mage, it'd be weird if someone else were to teach it.



PS

Your whole blood mage AND a good person thing is likely to be a bit rubbish like in DAO, especially now we've got Merrill stealing your thunder.

[drahelvete]

By worshipping R'hllor?

[Big I]

DragonOfWhiteThunder wrote...

I have to agree that such a blood mage wouldn't necessarily be evil.

However, between the practice of using the life force of others as its fuel and the ability to magically control others through blood magic, can we agree that it is prohibited because it is more open to abuse? The power is not necessarily evil in and of itself, but it lends itself to evil acts.


Back on topic, I don't know other than fair certainty that blood magic is going to be available.

Blood mage is one of the mage specs, so it's in.

On topic, I never saw a logical reason for the prejudice against blood magic that couldn't be solved by greater regulation. There are four things the Chantry hate blood magic for:

1) Controlling minds
2) Draining life force
3) Summoning demons physically beyond the Veil
4) Encouraging mages to sacrifice people for spells.

The thing about (1) and (2) is  that the Circle still teaches spells that do this. The Entropic school of magic contains the spells Drain Life and Horror, which is the same thing as what they're afraid of. (3) is barely valid because a mage can deal with demons or become an abomination without blood magic, and (4) can be stopped by enforcing a law against murder.

[Naitaka]

drahelvete wrote...

By worshipping R'hllor?

Sounds like the wrong god...unless you're into setting people on fire.

Modifié par Naitaka, 15 janvier 2011 - 02:52 .

[drahelvete]

Naitaka wrote...

drahelvete wrote...

By worshipping R'hllor?

Sounds like the wrong god...unless you're into setting people on fire.

The red priests/priestesses use blood magic all the time?

[Naitaka]

drahelvete wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

drahelvete wrote...

By worshipping R'hllor?

Sounds like the wrong god...unless you're into setting people on fire.

The red priests/priestesses use blood magic all the time?

Seems like blood is more of a component of her spell from what I gathered in the book. I get the feeling that her magic isn't fuel by blood. Also, I don't remember seeing Thoros using blood magic ever.

EDIT: The kind of magic done by Mirri Maz Duur or that witch Cersei met seem much more akin to blood magic to me.

Modifié par Naitaka, 15 janvier 2011 - 03:05 .

[atheelogos]

Elfman wrote...

FemHawke is clearly talking to Merrill. I think I even remember reading Merrill uses blood magic to.......do something. And since she's a blood mage, it'd be weird if someone else were to teach it.

Everyone is so sure shes a blood mage. Can somebody tell me why this is?

[Herr Uhl]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The thing about (1) and (2) is  that the Circle still teaches spells that do this. The Entropic school of magic contains the spells Drain Life and Horror, which is the same thing as what they're afraid of. (3) is barely valid because a mage can deal with demons or become an abomination without blood magic, and (4) can be stopped by enforcing a law against murder.

The reason why mind control by a blood mage is dangerous is that if the mage is sufficiently skilled, he or she can use suggestion to do it without being detected. This isn't like the control spell from DAO, as the victim would notice that.

[Loc'n'lol]

You will have to buy some piece of DLC. For a meager 600 Bioware points, you can unlock blood magic for your mage Hawke.

[/just trolling]

[Johnny Shepard]

leonia42 wrote...

Maybe Mage Hawke already knows it at the beginning.. or maybe we get a blood mage companion, that might be fun.

Hawke has no specialitiazion in the beginning. Atleast not for the first 4 Levels.
But Orsino should be a Blood Mage since he has a Blood Mage staff. But who is Orsino?

[Big I]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The reason why mind control by a blood mage is dangerous is that if the mage is sufficiently skilled, he or she can use suggestion to do it without being detected. This isn't like the control spell from DAO, as the victim would notice that.

I would argue that the Entropic spells are just as effective, if requiring more subtlety. The premise of the Nightmare spell is that Horror is far more effective when used on a sleeping target. If as seems plausible spells have non-combat usages we're simply never shown this means a mage who knows Horror can control the dreams of whomever they want. At the very least it means he can plague someone with horrific nightmares. How could you possibly go about proving that your dreams are being caused by magic?

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 15 janvier 2011 - 03:25 .

[Johnny Shepard]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

DragonOfWhiteThunder wrote...

I have to agree that such a blood mage wouldn't necessarily be evil.

However, between the practice of using the life force of others as its fuel and the ability to magically control others through blood magic, can we agree that it is prohibited because it is more open to abuse? The power is not necessarily evil in and of itself, but it lends itself to evil acts.


Back on topic, I don't know other than fair certainty that blood magic is going to be available.

Blood mage is one of the mage specs, so it's in.

On topic, I never saw a logical reason for the prejudice against blood magic that couldn't be solved by greater regulation. There are four things the Chantry hate blood magic for:

1) Controlling minds
2) Draining life force
3) Summoning demons physically beyond the Veil
4) Encouraging mages to sacrifice people for spells.

The thing about (1) and (2) is  that the Circle still teaches spells that do this. The Entropic school of magic contains the spells Drain Life and Horror, which is the same thing as what they're afraid of. (3) is barely valid because a mage can deal with demons or become an abomination without blood magic, and (4) can be stopped by enforcing a law against murder.

True. But the Blood Mage spells is supose to be much more powerfull. In the books it is said that a Blood Mage could controll a King and by that become the ruler of a Kingdom.

[obnoxiousgas]

I think it'd be more interesting from a grey morality stance to not have to do something undeniably evil to learn blood magic this time round (discounting 'buy a book from a tavern', because seriously, what?). We haven't really been given any evidence to suggest that blood magic is inherently evil, only that a lot of the people who use it end up using it in a bad way. It does make the mages more susceptible to being taken over by demons (though this is probably due to having to make deals with demons to learn it in the first place), but so does spirit healing. If nothing else, I'd like for the codex or whatever equivalent we have to expand further on it.

[Herr Uhl]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The reason why mind control by a blood mage is dangerous is that if the mage is sufficiently skilled, he or she can use suggestion to do it without being detected. This isn't like the control spell from DAO, as the victim would notice that.

I would argue that the Entropic spells are just as effective, if requiring more subtlety. The premise of the Nightmare spell is that Horror is far more effective when used on a sleeping target. If as seems plausible spells have non-combat usages we're simply never shown this means a mage who knows Horror can control the dreams of whomever they want. At the very least it means he can plague someone with horrific nightmares. How could you possibly go about proving that your dreams are being caused by magic?

What would you gain by giving someone nightmares? The application of suggestion seems obvious though.

[Big I]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

True. But the Blood Mage spells is supose to be much more powerfull. In the books it is said that a Blood Mage could controll a King and by that become the ruler of a Kingdom.

I'm not disputing blood magic is incredibly powerful. It can prolong life like with Avernus, and summon and bind powerful spirits like the Lady of the Forest and the Dark Ritual. Nor am I saying that having that much power couldn't tempt a person to misuse it. I' m merely saying that the reasons everyone gives (in-game) for hating blood magic are largely irrelevant because they're already being duplicated through other means.


The teryn of Highever probably has enough money to hire the Crows to kill the ruler of Fereldan. That's bad. But even if you somehow made it impossible for him to hire the Crows, he could still try to kill the ruler by hiring a bard from Orlais. If you're worried about the teryn using his power to attack you, the solution is not to cut off one use of his power and expect that to solve the problem. Simply watch him closely and prepare counter-measures (in the case of mages something like the Litany of Andralla). Furthermore, simply having the ability to committ a crime doesn't mean that you will do so; perhaps the teryn (or the blood mage) won't try to attack you at all.

[atheelogos]

obnoxiousgas wrote...

I think it'd be more interesting from a grey morality stance to not have to do something undeniably evil to learn blood magic this time round (discounting 'buy a book from a tavern', because seriously, what?). We haven't really been given any evidence to suggest that blood magic is inherently evil, only that a lot of the people who use it end up using it in a bad way. It does make the mages more susceptible to being taken over by demons (though this is probably due to having to make deals with demons to learn it in the first place), but so does spirit healing. If nothing else, I'd like for the codex or whatever equivalent we have to expand further on it.

I agree 100% Oh and I like your avatar 

[Naitaka]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Johnny Shepard wrote...

True. But the Blood Mage spells is supose to be much more powerfull. In the books it is said that a Blood Mage could controll a King and by that become the ruler of a Kingdom.

I'm not disputing blood magic is incredibly powerful. It can prolong life like with Avernus, and summon and bind powerful spirits like the Lady of the Forest and the Dark Ritual. Nor am I saying that having that much power couldn't tempt a person to misuse it. I' m merely saying that the reasons everyone gives (in-game) for hating blood magic are largely irrelevant because they're already being duplicated through other means.


The teryn of Highever probably has enough money to hire the Crows to kill the ruler of Fereldan. That's bad. But even if you somehow made it impossible for him to hire the Crows, he could still try to kill the ruler by hiring a bard from Orlais. If you're worried about the teryn using his power to attack you, the solution is not to cut off one use of his power and expect that to solve the problem. Simply watch him closely and prepare counter-measures (in the case of mages something like the Litany of Andralla). Furthermore, simply having the ability to committ a crime doesn't mean that you will do so; perhaps the teryn (or the blood mage) won't try to attack you at all.

I'd imagine it isn't any single one of those thing that made blood magic so feared in Thedas. It's more about what role blood magic have played historically and the fact that it combines ALL of those possiblity of misuse in a single school of magic that the Chantry just find banning it all together to be the most sensible thing to do.

[Big I]

Herr Uhl wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...
At the very least it means he can plague someone with horrific nightmares. How could you possibly go about proving that your dreams are being caused by magic?

What would you gain by giving someone nightmares? The application of suggestion seems obvious though.

I'm no psychologist, but I imagine you could subconciously turn them against someone or something by constantly including it as an element in their nightmares, or manipulate how emotionally and mentally vulnerable they are through sleep deprivation. Perhaps you could simply use them as a means of manipulating someone else by enforcing their phobias and making them seem more erratic.

[Big I]

Naitaka wrote...

I'd imagine it isn't any single one of those thing that made blood magic so feared in Thedas. It's more about what role blood magic have played historically and the fact that it combines ALL of those possiblity of misuse in a single school of magic that the Chantry just find banning it all together to be the most sensible thing to do.

I agree about history being the more important reason for banning blood magic. The Tevinter magisters gave it a bad image due to their atrocities and blackening the golden city. It's probably even banned in the Chant of Light.

As for misuse, ANY power is open to misuse. Being able to swing a sword is open to misuse. It doesn't mean they shouldn't train people to swing swords.

Avernus's blood magic kept him alive, which in turn kept demons from descending on the countryside. Morrigan's blood magic potentially helped defeat an Archdemon. Power is defined by it's use, not it's nature.

[iEthanol]

More importantly, there better be some kind of emotional response from people once we get it. In Origins we start out hearing how dangerous it is and how people who use it are shunned, hated, and imprisoned, and yet once we get it... no one seemed to give a crap. Talk about destroying immersion.

Modifié par iEthanol, 15 janvier 2011 - 04:42 .

[Eclipse_9990]

iEthanol wrote...

More importantly, there better be some kind of emotional response from people once we get it. In Origins we start out hearing how dangerous it is and how people who use it are shunned & arrestested, and then once we get it... nothing.

I literally spawned it everywhere and no one seemed to give a crap.

I demand no less than 10 waves of town guards coming after me.

[mad0ni0n]

I could never even get blood magic to work in origins. Yeah, I never really went into that much detail...



I know you have to have blood magic active but I could still never even see the other spells like blood wound even though I had them unlocked....

[Naitaka]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

I'd imagine it isn't any single one of those thing that made blood magic so feared in Thedas. It's more about what role blood magic have played historically and the fact that it combines ALL of those possiblity of misuse in a single school of magic that the Chantry just find banning it all together to be the most sensible thing to do.

I agree about history being the more important reason for banning blood magic. The Tevinter magisters gave it a bad image due to their atrocities and blackening the golden city. It's probably even banned in the Chant of Light.

As for misuse, ANY power is open to misuse. Being able to swing a sword is open to misuse. It doesn't mean they shouldn't train people to swing swords.

Avernus's blood magic kept him alive, which in turn kept demons from descending on the countryside. Morrigan's blood magic potentially helped defeat an Archdemon. Power is defined by it's use, not it's nature.

I highly doubt the Chantry encourage that kind of thinking. I have no doubt that other school of magic can all be open t o abuse of one form or another, however, blood magic, when so many of its uses have a tendancy of getting people killed/corrupted, the Chantry probably just find it convient to ban it altogether in the first place. Sure, swinging a sword is open to abuse, but that doesn't mean someone in a position of power should train every bloody peasant in the use of the weapon, especially when those peasant are prone to rise up against said authority. I'm not arguing that Chantry's ban on blood magic is justified, but it certainly is logical for an organization in the positition to control mages to get rid of blood magic altogether.

Modifié par Naitaka, 15 janvier 2011 - 04:45 .

[iEthanol]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

iEthanol wrote...

More importantly, there better be some kind of emotional response from people once we get it. In Origins we start out hearing how dangerous it is and how people who use it are shunned & arrestested, and then once we get it... nothing.

I literally spawned it everywhere and no one seemed to give a crap.

I demand no less than 10 waves of town guards coming after me.

Or maybe people running away as that did in Fable 1 when your reputation was low enough. Hell, maybe even have a few people bring it up in the dialogue menu (considering 50% of the game takes place there).