23 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarethus]

 Hi, Sorry to pollute the forum with another build advise thread but I recently got ME 1 & 2 as presents and am looking for some guidance on my Nemesis Vanguard build (and most of the Gold Standard builds were for shock troopers while I prefer the Nemesis partly for RP reasons.) I thought of asking on the Gold Standard group discussion but I doubt either of these qualify.

I am currently waffling between these two builds:

Warp Build (Link):

Pistols - 8 (Adv Marksman)
Shotguns - 12
Assault Training - 12
Tactical Armor - 8 (Adv Tactical Armor)
Throw - 8 (Adv Throw)
Lift - 7 (Adv Lift)
Warp - 12
Barrier - 7
Singularity - 12
Nemesis - 12
Spectre Training – 4

Lift Build (Link):

Pistols - 8 (Adv Marksman)
Shotguns - 12
Assault Training - 12
Tactical Armor - 8 (Adv Tactical Armor)
Throw - 8 (Adv Throw)
Lift - 12 
Warp - 6 (Adv Warp)
Barrier - 8 (1 point past Advanced)
Singularity - 12
Nemesis - 12
Spectre Training – 4

Main thing I want to ask is do you guys believe that these builds will be good enough for Insanity? (I want to attempt that on my third play-through) and which of the two powers to take to master ? Warp or Insanity.

Also I read that for Nemesis Vanguards, Singularity will not be affected by the Nemesis bonuses. So given that would it be better to lower Singularity to Advanced and max out both Warp and Lift which are affected by Nemesis or even Barrier?

EDIT:
 Sorry to re-necro this but I recently restarted my game (due to not realising that you did not get to pick a bonus talent if you restarted your career with a character who did not have the bonus talent in the first place) and I got an idea for a third variation that I would like your advice on:

Barrier Build (Link):

Pistols - 8 (Adv Marksman)
Shotguns - 12
Assault Training - 8 (Advanced Adrenaline Burst)
Tactical Armor - 8 (Adv Tactical Armor)
Throw - 8 (Adv Throw)
Lift - 12
Warp - 6  (Adv Warp)
Barrier - 12 (Master Barrier)
Singularity - 12
Nemesis - 12
Spectre Training – 4

It's my lift build with a few changes. I trade out Master Assault Training for Master Barrier.  This would prevent Carnage/Barrier Bug.

Now my main concern with this build (and the others for that matter) is that it won't be enough for Insanity. I have so far only played on Normal difficulty but to be honest did not find it that difficult.  

So my main question with this and my Lift build is wheather you think either of these are good enough for Insanity with a decently skilled player? (One concern I have is the last mission of Pinnacle station.) 

Modifié par Sarethus, 07 janvier 2011 - 06:38 .

[Ahglock]

Maxed lift can lift anything in the game so that is probably the better option. And I mean anything, geth colossus the end boss, everything.

[Bozorgmehr]

I would max Singularity, longer duration and wider radius are well worth the extra skill points. Being able to use Lift and Singularity reduces Warp's usefulness - you can disable entire rooms permanently, only difference - having a less evolved version of Warp - are a couple extra shots taking down (helpless) enemies.

[Njorls]

Max lift if you're nemesis, nemesis lift is awesome



Max both actually, dump shotguns (pistols are better)

[NICKjnp]

Don't take singularity. I would take Assault Rifle and put the points in that. Don't worry about pistols or shotguns. Max lift and warp. Adrenaline rush can reset those for you know problem.

[mcsupersport]

Max pistols with marksman engaged has the highest DPS of any gun in the game. Use shotguns or AR for flavor only, because they actually will lower your damage output.



Personally I like ShockTrooper for the bonuses it gets specifically Barrier so you have perma barrier for extra damage protection.



As for warp, I rarely take it above advanced 8-9 points and most times it never gets above 1-2 pts, because I like to use the other skills more, particularly lift and Singularity. I just don't see the bonuses of a few extra seconds and slight damage increase a big enough perk to take away from having max lift, and Singularity plus a max weapon skill, barrier and high armor.

[Simbacca]

Shocktrooper gives you the added Defense and buff to Barrier to keep you in the fight with your Shotguns.  If you're going for a Nemesis caster, imho it's better to drop all the points from Shotguns, get Master Marksman from your Pistol, and use the extra points to have both Lift and Warp maxed (along with Singularity).  Besides, Carnage deactivates the player's Advanced (and Basic) Barrier, a weird bug that was never fixed, and that's all you'll have the points for unless you drop Aderanline Burst down to Basic (not recommending for a PC player unless you just want AB to be an occasional "oh sh!t" button instead of a constantly used power).  It does not cancel a player's Master Barrier though.

But to answer your original question simply ("Warp or Lift?"), Lift.

Modifié par Simbacca, 15 décembre 2010 - 07:41 .

[Sarethus]

Thanks to everyone who replied, looks like it will be lift over warp.



While I do agree that mechanically Shock Trooper is better then Nemesis, I am favouring Nemesis partly for RP reasons as I stated earlier. I like the concept of being slightly more tilted towards biotics in a mostly balanced between Soldier/Adept character.



Thanks for the tip regarding the Shotgun/Barrier bug though. I'll save a bit and try and see how bad it impacts my game play.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

NICKjnp wrote...

Don't take singularity. I would take Assault Rifle and put the points in that. Don't worry about pistols or shotguns. Max lift and warp. Adrenaline rush can reset those for you know problem.

With all due respect, this idea is extremely counterproductive. Assault rifles are the worst weapons in the game(outclassed entirely by pistols) and Singularity is so powerful in Mass Effect that it borders on game-breaking. Unless your intent is to intentionally limit yourself, taking Assault Rifles over Singularity is pretty much the worst idea I can think of.

[Omega-202]

Miss Yuna of Atlanta wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

Don't take singularity. I would take Assault Rifle and put the points in that. Don't worry about pistols or shotguns. Max lift and warp. Adrenaline rush can reset those for you know problem.

With all due respect, this idea is extremely counterproductive. Assault rifles are the worst weapons in the game(outclassed entirely by pistols) and Singularity is so powerful in Mass Effect that it borders on game-breaking. Unless your intent is to intentionally limit yourself, taking Assault Rifles over Singularity is pretty much the worst idea I can think of.

I completely agree with what Yuna said.  

NICK is essentially suggesting not to use 2 of the 3 most broken abilities in the game: Singularity and Pistol/Marksmen (with the third being Immunity).  AR is terrible on anything but an Adept or Sentinel due in part to the power wheel bug and the armor prereq for Adept's Pistol.  Singularity is game breaking when combined with Warp, tech mines, Carnage and anything else AOE.  

[PrinceLionheart]

Hate to necro this, but I want to make sure my understanding of the Nemesis vs. Shocktrooper is correct. Nemesis is better if you plan to use the Pistol as your primary weapon while Shocktrooper makes the most out of CQC with a better barrier?

I'm asking because I did a Vanguard playthrough in the past, but it wasn't fully optimized IMO since I went Shocktrooper, but used my Vanguard for more CC. 

[mcsupersport]

Shocktrooper:



1) gives barrier specialization which increases the Barrier strength and duration.(25%) iirc

2) increases damage protection and health

3) gives a reduction in Adrenal burst which resets powers.



Nemesis:

1) Increases the strength of throw.

2) increases lift time

3) improves warp radius

4) improves biotics in general.



If you are going to be a pure stand back caster disabler then nemesis is better, but if you want to play an in your face blast and pillage then stormtrooper is what you want.



I generally find Stormtrooper to be better for my playstyle because the barrier improvements mean you don't take damage as much, plus damage is reduced when you do. The AD boost is good, but not required.

[Sarethus]

 Sorry to re-necro this but I recently restarted my game (due to not realising that you did not get to pick a bonus talent if you restarted your career with a character who did not have the bonus talent in the first place) and I got an idea for a third variation that I would like your advice on:

Barrier Build (Link):

Pistols - 8 (Adv Marksman)
Shotguns - 12
Assault Training - 8 (Advanced Adrenaline Burst)
Tactical Armor - 8 (Adv Tactical Armor)
Throw - 8 (Adv Throw)
Lift - 12
Warp - 6  (Adv Warp)
Barrier - 12 (Master Barrier)
Singularity - 12
Nemesis - 12
Spectre Training – 4

It's my lift build with a few changes. I trade out Master Assault Training for Master Barrier.  This would prevent Carnage/Barrier Bug.

Now my main concern with this build (and the others for that matter) is that it won't be enough for Insanity. I have so far only played on Normal difficulty but to be honest did not find it that difficult.  

So my main question with this and my Lift build is wheather you think either of these are good enough for Insanity with a decently skilled player? (One concern I have is the last mission of Pinnacle station.) 

Modifié par Sarethus, 20 décembre 2010 - 11:58 .

[SupidSeep]

I might get chewed out for saying this, but frankly a decent player should be able to play through most of Insanity without excessive fustration without having to min-max.

Any of the biotic classes in ME1 has the basic Throw and Lift, and with sufficient investment you can easily CC through almost the whole game with those 2 talents. It is more a matter of APPLYING your talents effectively in ME1 to CC enemies until you can kill them.

If you are new to ME1 then I suggest you play through the game first normally to get a feel of how Talents (ME1 Powers) work in ME1 and gain experience in ME1 combat THEN consider playing on Insanity.

As for creating a min-max build at level 60 to play on Insanity, I think it is unnecessary. Unless your build is HORRID, the only way you can't wipe Insanity critters with a level 60 char is if you don't know how to play in the first case.

So let it go, you don't NEED a Gold Standard Build to play through ME1 Insanity. What you need is a firm grasp of how ME1 combat and talent works, and the best way is to play through normally.

I'm just an average gamer. The main char I'm carrying into ME2/3 is an Insanity Vanguard with AR Training (!?), using only Throw and Lift as CC powers. And I got through based not on any Gold Build (I put points into Paragon for RP, ignored Pistols/Shotguns, etc.), but by knowing what my Powers can do and evolve them to suit my gameplay.

For instance, do you know that Master Throw can knock down Armatures (but not Colossi)?

So my advice is to learn how ME1 plays first, then IF you need a Gold Build, modify one to your liking.

[The Grey Ranger]

SupidSeep, some of us have a bit of a power gamer thing going.  Perfecting your build is part of the fun.  While admittedly most builds can finish insanity unless you totally screw up.  Getting it just right is good fun.

[The Grey Ranger]

Stupid double post

Modifié par The Grey Ranger, 21 décembre 2010 - 07:53 .

[PrinceLionheart]

I decided to bump this instead of creating another thread on a similar topic. I'm doing a Hardcore through playthrough and have intentions of investing 4 points into shotgun so I can have access to Carnage. Based on my planned build I can either max out Warp or Throw. Which one is the more beneficial maxed out?

[The Spamming Troll]

how often do you die in ME1? my problem is i rarely die so i dont even invest in shields/medium armor and i only put one point into barrier. i put all my points into my biotics and my pistol. theres just not alot of things a vangaurd worries about with having AR.

[Sailears]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

I decided to bump this instead of creating another thread on a similar topic. I'm doing a Hardcore through playthrough and have intentions of investing 4 points into shotgun so I can have access to Carnage. Based on my planned build I can either max out Warp or Throw. Which one is the more beneficial maxed out?

Warp at advanced is still pretty good, and saves you 6 points. Depends how much difficulty you have with enemy immunity.

[PrinceLionheart]

Curunen wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

I decided to bump this instead of creating another thread on a similar topic. I'm doing a Hardcore through playthrough and have intentions of investing 4 points into shotgun so I can have access to Carnage. Based on my planned build I can either max out Warp or Throw. Which one is the more beneficial maxed out?

Warp at advanced is still pretty good, and saves you 6 points. Depends how much difficulty you have with enemy immunity.

I'm playing Hardcore at the moment so I haven't encountered many problems yet.

[SupidSeep]

IIRC, you have to invest at least 4 points into Warp to unlock Barrier as a Vanguard, so a couple more points should get you Advanced Warp, which would serve alright for much of the mid-game (ie. lvl 20-40). I would focus on getting the CC powers (Throw, Lift and possibly Singularity) up to usable levels quickly.

My core Shock Trooper Vanguard doesn't use Singularity so I didn't explore the full effects of what it can do. However, I know that Geth Armatures are affected by Master Throw or Advanced Lift, while a Geth Colossus requires Master Lift. I have yet to see my Singularity affect a Colossus even with my Adept - maybe it requires Nemesis? I've always avoided it in favour of Shock Trooper / Bastion.

I'm not sure but from play experience have a feeling that Korgans (and/or possibly Asari Commando?) tend to shrug off basic Throw so you need basic Lift/Singularity or Advanced Throw to affect them. Knowing what your talents can or cannot do is important to planning out your talent evolution so you quickly establish a dependable set of talents to handle standard combat situations. At least this is how I evolve my talents on the lower levels (<20) on Insanity games.

IMO on the harder difficulties, the trick to winning most battles is to CC your opponents to prevent them from killing you / your team until you are in a postion to kill them utterly.

[mcsupersport]

Singularity will never to my knowledge effect Saren(end jumper or floater fighter) or Colossus. Max throw and Lift will effect both of them, making them better in some fights.

[tonnactus]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

I decided to bump this instead of creating another thread on a similar topic. I'm doing a Hardcore through playthrough and have intentions of investing 4 points into shotgun so I can have access to Carnage. Based on my planned build I can either max out Warp or Throw. Which one is the more beneficial maxed out?

Warp.Neutralize multiple immunite spammers.Advanced throw is enough for every enemy in the game.

[tonnactus]

mcsupersport wrote...

Singularity will never to my knowledge effect Saren(end jumper or floater fighter) or Colossus. Max throw and Lift will effect both of them, making them better in some fights.

Wrong in some parts.The only thing that works on a colossus is stasis and lift as crowd control. Master Throw only works on armatures and knocked them down for 1-2 seconds.