109 réponses à ce sujet

[008Zulu]

Oh. My. Damn. I swear by god, I am so glad I'm not the only person in the world who actually thought about this. I mean... I also had a theory that Reapers could travel through black holes (?!?!?!?)

Yeah, this isnt Star Trek. Bioware has been pretty good with physics so far, its doubtful they would use Abram's Postulate on Black Holes.

I reckon the Reapers needed a bunch of Ezo to power the new Reaper and were using dark energy to convert a star in to the amount they required (anyone else notice that the dead Reaper and the Normandy's drive cores were the same size? So Normandy is as powerful as a Reaper?).

Suppose, just suppose, a second Citadel Relay were hidden inside a star, or the star formed around it (they built a relay and a space station in the galactic core, I think it'd be ok) and the dark energy is stripping away the star so they can reclaim it.

Modifié par 008Zulu, 18 décembre 2010 - 07:22 .

[Omega_Spectre]

008Zulu wrote...

Oh. My. Damn. I swear by god, I am so glad I'm not the only person in the world who actually thought about this. I mean... I also had a theory that Reapers could travel through black holes (?!?!?!?)

Yeah, this isnt Star Trek. Bioware has been pretty good with physics so far, its doubtful they would use Adram's Postulate on Black Holes.

I reckon the Reapers needed a bunch of Ezo to power the new Reaper and were using dark energy to convert a star in to the amount they required (anyone else notice that the dead Reaper and the Normandy's drive cores were the same size? So Normandy is as powerful as a Reaper?).

Suppose, just suppose, a second Citadel Relay were hidden inside a star, or the star formed around it (they built a relay and a space station in the galactic core, I think it'd be ok) and the dark energy is stripping away the star so they can reclaim it.

^This is also possible as well. You know, I seem to remember an episode of Stargate SG-1, where O'Neill and his crew were getting ready for a face-off with the Ori (powerful beings who used religion to subjugate populations throughout the universe). Anyway, during this particular episode, the Ori showed they had the ability to turn a planet (or was it a sun? ) into a gigantic stargate, after which they navigated their warships right on top of the good guys. Don't remember much else about the episode, but that definitely stood out to me.

Now if the Ori can pull that off in a "separate" universe, then maybe the Reapers can do something similar.    

Modifié par Omega_Spectre, 17 décembre 2010 - 11:00 .

[Praetor Knight]

Omega_Spectre wrote...

You know, I seem to remember an episode of Stargate SG-1, where O'Neill and his crew were getting ready for a face-off with the Ori (powerful beings who used religion to subjugate populations throughout the universe). Anyway, during this particular episode, the Ori showed they had the ability to turn a planet (or was it a sun? ) into a gigantic stargate, after which they navigated their warships right on top of the good guys. Don't remember much else about the episode, but that definitely stood out to me.

Now if the Ori can pull that off in a "separate" universe, then maybe the Reapers can do something similar.    

There were a few that dealt with some things that are related to black holes and the sort. Of the top of my head, there was one where an SG Team went to a planet when the planet's sun was turning into a Black Hole, there was another where a solar flare diverted the wormhole.

I haven't seen them in a while, but the one you maybe referring to was with the Ori trying to establish a "BeachHead" with a super gate, where SG1 could not stop the Ori and everything the SG1 was doing, was helping the Ori, til the end of the episode of course . I own all of the seasons :innocent:.

[Spinotech]

Just a thought, near the end of the Prothean vision wasn't there a planet or a star before the camera zoomed in on a Reaper?  If that is the case, that could be a hint that dark energy in Haestrom's sun is how the Reapers will enter the galaxy.

[Vaenier]

Spinotech wrote...

Just a thought, near the end of the Prothean vision wasn't there a planet or a star before the camera zoomed in on a Reaper?  If that is the case, that could be a hint that dark energy in Haestrom's sun is how the Reapers will enter the galaxy.

I thought that was Illos?

[Homey C-Dawg]

008Zulu wrote...
Suppose, just suppose, a second Citadel Relay were hidden inside a star, or the star formed around it (they built a relay and a space station in the galactic core, I think it'd be ok) and the dark energy is stripping away the star so they can reclaim it.

Ohh I like this theory.  If fleshed out, this idea could go somewhere.

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 18 décembre 2010 - 03:15 .

[Vaenier]

008Zulu wrote...

Suppose, just suppose, a second Citadel Relay were hidden inside a star, or the star formed around it (they built a relay and a space station in the galactic core, I think it'd be ok) and the dark energy is stripping away the star so they can reclaim it.

It would melt. Quite obviously it could not exist in a star for millions of years. It is simply not possible. There is no where to send excess heat, It is facing a constant bombardment of a massive fusion reaction. even if it could stop the force of the reaction with shields, its own build up of heat would melt it. You have a better chance with a wormhole

Or just another mirror citadel in the galaxy that is not connected to the relay grid. so it would take some time to get back to the relay grid, but it would still be in the galaxy. Think of it as a backup citadel incase a species ever decided they wanted to push the first one into a sun for the lols... I would not put it past many of the people on this forum to do so.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Yeah it seems pretty unfeasible, but so is the collector base being in the galactic core. Still, the wormhole theory seems the most likely to me.

The "artificial construct inside a star" theory I find very intriguing, though unlikely. It would be interesting if they went this route and came up with some explaination for it, like creating a bubble within it using some sort of super mass effect field, like Jack/Samara's biotic bubble, but on an even larger scale than whatever was keeping the collector base safe in the galactic core for 50,000 years.

edit- Maybe a wormhole in the bubble in the sun? 

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 18 décembre 2010 - 03:45 .

[Omega_Spectre]

Spinotech wrote...

Just a thought, near the end of the Prothean vision wasn't there a planet or a star before the camera zoomed in on a Reaper?  If that is the case, that could be a hint that dark energy in Haestrom's sun is how the Reapers will enter the galaxy.

Yeah, I know the scene you're referring to. I'm glad you brought that up, because that could be a telltale sign of the Reapers return in ME3. I always did wonder if that Reaper was coming through a wormhole, blackhole, or some other kind of spatial distorton. As much as I've played ME1, I just might play through it again just to see if I missed any other suttle hints like that.

[008Zulu]

Omega_Spectre wrote...
^This is also possible as well. You
know, I seem to remember an episode of Stargate SG-1, where O'Neill and
his crew were getting ready for a face-off with the Ori (powerful beings
who used religion to subjugate populations throughout the universe).
Anyway, during this particular episode, the Ori showed they had the
ability to turn a planet (or was it a sun? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png)
into a gigantic stargate, after which they navigated their warships
right on top of the good guys. Don't remember much else about the
episode, but that definitely stood out to me.

Now if the Ori can pull that off in a "separate" universe, then maybe the Reapers can do something similar.    

The Ori turned a planet in to a black hole which they used to power the super gate.

Vaenier wrote...

It would melt. Quite
obviously it could not exist in a star for millions of years. It is
simply not possible. There is no where to send excess heat, It is facing
a constant bombardment of a massive fusion reaction. even if it could
stop the force of the reaction with shields, its own build up of heat
would melt it. You have a better chance with a wormhole

The Reapers are capable of remarkable feats of engineering, with strong
enough shielding it could survive, the Collector base survived in the
galactic core, and the Mu relay survived a point blank super nova. There
is no evidence of wormholes existing, nor the technology to create
them. The Reapers wouldn't need the Citadel relay if such means existed.

Modifié par 008Zulu, 18 décembre 2010 - 07:35 .

[Vaenier]

008Zulu wrote...

The Reapers are capable of remarkable feats of engineering, with strong
enough shielding it could survive, the Collector base survived in the
galactic core, and the Mu relay survived a point blank super nova. There
is no evidence of wormholes existing, nor the technology to create
them. The Reapers wouldn't need the Citadel relay if such means existed.

I guess it could survive if it had a wormhole to dump the excess heat into... wait...

The galactic core base had many black holes to dump heat into, it was a simple matter of just producing enough energy to keep the space there stabilised. The relay only took a momentary blast, not a constant bombardment for millions of years. If inside a sun, there is nowhere for heat to go, it would cook.

It could be that wromholes are very messy to use. They have to blow up a sun to make one aparently, and there is no telling what sacrifices they have to do on their end to make the link. Plus it is likely the Geth that are making the sun unstable for the wormhole, so they would need people on this end in order to do it. And the effect ends up being exactly the same as the citadel relay, just a lot messier, cost alot more, and has a huge chance of blowing up in their faces.

Also, the fact the stabilised the collector base means they do have technology to stabalise black holes, not much of a stretch to stretch one into a worm hole.

[darth_lopez]

008Zulu wrote...

The Reapers are capable of remarkable feats of engineering, with strong
enough shielding it could survive, the Collector base survived in the
galactic core, and the Mu relay survived a point blank super nova. There
is no evidence of wormholes existing, nor the technology to create
them.

It's never stated that reapers need the Relays for travel. And they obviously have some other means of hyper fast transportation, no doubt similar to the relays however most likely built into their system, otherwise how would they have finished constructing the relay network? One could also reason that because the relays sole purpose atm is basicalyl to uplift other species but ultimately inhibit their growth and technological development  Reapers have evolved past a point they need to rely on the relays for anything other than cutting galactic civilization off from itself.
Infact its likely, as proposed in other threads how civiliazation would travel if relays were turned off, that Reapers had to intercept Targets that fled the purge by way of standard FTL this would imply that they could indeed travel faster than standard FTL and do so without the aid fo the relays, as they can't simply warp you anywhere.

so there are logical implications that they can indeed travel faster, or as fast as, relays with out the aid of relays

The Reapers wouldn't need the Citadel relay if such means existed.

Their need of the citadel is a strategic/tactical one By capturing the citadel and closing the other relays, presumably to all but reapers(though they may close them completely as IFFs can indeed be obtained from dead reapers potentially complicating "reaper only" travel by relay),They effectively Cut the head off of the Dragon.

What they achieve by capturing the Citadel Relay is simply :
1)dissolution of galactic government
2)interferance with galactic economics
3)Major source of military information for all species essential to galactic order(aka the most likely to succeed in counter-offensive)
4)Disruption of galactic communication
5)Census Data
6)base of operations to shore up and repair
7)Data on current technologies(allows them to gauge threat of powerful races)
8)Large populous for 'reaping'
9)Disruption of galactic Travel.
10) Location of Known inhabitted planets, prospective inhabitted, Capitol planets, Reasearch installations, Military outposts
11) (possibly the least important) Semi-Secure form of travel.

Point 11 however is the least reliable as no doubt an ermegency message will get out and response teams will no doubt have relays blockaded leaving any reaper who enters via relay vulnerable to the full force of the fleets stationed at those points. Obviously this isn't the best, smartest, or safest way to travel and plot a massive kill fest. it is more likely in lou of the tactical/strategic disadvantages the relays offer that they have some form of FTL Drive on par with Relay Transit. Therefore granting them the ability to launch an incredibly suprising attack behind enemy lines and completely take the defenders unaware as the installation burns beneath reaper aggression.

So in short Due to the Disadvantages Relays impose on the repears strategically and The overall goal of the reapers, along with they're success rate and suprising lack of corpses (only 2 or 3 derelict reaper ME 2 and a few entries from planets in ME 1 that suggests objects similar to reapers) it's likely that they do not rely on the Relay Network for travel. 

If they did however rely on the Network the following would be true:
1) Citadel tech is on par with current reaper tech(FALSE it is stated sovereign is more advanced than any citadel warship along with Collector tech being unusual and seemingly hyper advanced as well.)
2)Reapers have taken heavy loses due to strategic /tactical mishaps at relay points(Unknown)
3)There would be at least 4 dozen ancient species coming out of FTL on course to the citadel or floating derelict in space but in stasis(potentially true, however unlikely)

While there is no official statement on their FTL capabilities it is likely they surpass any citadel species FTL drives.

[008Zulu]

Vaenier wrote...

Also, the fact the stabilised the collector base means they do have technology to stabalise black holes, not much of a stretch to stretch one into a worm hole.

They never stabelized the black hole, they just equiped the base with shielding capable or whitstanding the brutal forces that would otherwise be exerted upon it. I have to ask, how do you turn a Black Hole (an inaccurate name since it is a physical ultra dense mass) in to a wormhole? You could probably use one to power an artifical wormhole generator, but that just brings up my original point.

While the Citadel is a large habitable structure, the Reapers couldnt guarantee that every species would use it as the central hub of all galactic life. The supposed Citadel relay in Haestrom's sun could very well be a strpped down version, no habitation. If they equiped it with shields that fed off solar radiation, the shields upper limit being greater than that of the energy being produced by the star it would be ok.

When Sovereign attacked the Citadel, he was able to plough right through Turian cruisers. From a tactical standpoint all they would need is 5 or 6 Reapers to secure a Relay. It is likely the Reapers depend on the Relays as a means of transportation too, the dead Reaper's Mass Effect core is the same size as the Normandy's. While a Reapers engines are undoubtly more advanced they would still be subjected to the same travel restrictions (stopping at a sufficient planet to discharge), given that according to the end of ME2 they are 50,000(ish) lightyears away from the outermost edge of the galaxy (I posted elsewhere the theory and physics of this calculation), a protracted journey would not be possible.

[Vaenier]

008Zulu wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Also, the fact the stabilised the collector base means they do have technology to stabalise black holes, not much of a stretch to stretch one into a worm hole.

They never stabelized the black hole, they just equiped the base with shielding capable or whitstanding the brutal forces that would otherwise be exerted upon it. I have to ask, how do you turn a Black Hole (an inaccurate name since it is a physical ultra dense mass) in to a wormhole? You could probably use one to power an artifical wormhole generator, but that just brings up my original point.

While the Citadel is a large habitable structure, the Reapers couldnt guarantee that every species would use it as the central hub of all galactic life. The supposed Citadel relay in Haestrom's sun could very well be a strpped down version, no habitation. If they equiped it with shields that fed off solar radiation, the shields upper limit being greater than that of the energy being produced by the star it would be ok.

When Sovereign attacked the Citadel, he was able to plough right through Turian cruisers. From a tactical standpoint all they would need is 5 or 6 Reapers to secure a Relay. It is likely the Reapers depend on the Relays as a means of transportation too, the dead Reaper's Mass Effect core is the same size as the Normandy's. While a Reapers engines are undoubtly more advanced they would still be subjected to the same travel restrictions (stopping at a sufficient planet to discharge), given that according to the end of ME2 they are 50,000(ish) lightyears away from the outermost edge of the galaxy (I posted elsewhere the theory and physics of this calculation), a protracted journey would not be possible.

So where does the heat produced from the stations shields go? My original point, which has still not been answered. You are in a star, there is no where for heat to go but to build up to equal levels.

Like the normandy, they have to keep all the heat inside to stay invisable, but they can only do it so long before they melt. you cant radiate heat into a star, so your station will just build up heat till it melts.

[Praetor Knight]

Vaenier wrote...

So where does the heat produced from the stations shields go? My original point, which has still not been answered. You are in a star, there is no where for heat to go but to build up to equal levels.

Like the normandy, they have to keep all the heat inside to stay invisable, but they can only do it so long before they melt. you cant radiate heat into a star, so your station will just build up heat till it melts.

The station could make use of that heat with a heat pump to power certain systems or to simply sustain temps so that the station has a controlled climate.

Check out this article  on using heat as energy, it's possible today, but inefficient at lower temps, so if the shields are generating a lot of heat there could be a system that makes sure that the station would not get unbearably hot or melt that might not work on a frigate like the Normandy.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 18 décembre 2010 - 10:58 .

[Zaxares]

My personal theory is that the Reapers will cannibalise many of their own kind in order to obtain enough eezo and raw materials to construct another mass relay out in dark space, or even one that, like the Citadel, is capable of connecting to any mass relay in the Milky Way. This would explain how the Reapers were able to attack Earth so easily and overwhelm defenses so quickly; they simply jumped straight to the Charon relay and made a beeline for Earth.



At the same time, the loss of so many Reapers in building the new dark space relay means that the Citadel races now have a fighting chance against them.



This is all just speculation on my part, of course, but it seems the most logical conclusion to me, while still allowing the player to have a chance of victory against an armada of Reapers.

[008Zulu]

All that is assuming shields generate heat as a byproduct of their
usage, there has been no evidence ingame of such an occurance.

Zaxares wrote...
My
personal theory is that the Reapers will cannibalise many of their own
kind in order to obtain enough eezo and raw materials to construct
another mass relay out in dark space, or even one that, like the
Citadel, is capable of connecting to any mass relay in the Milky Way.
This would explain how the Reapers were able to attack Earth so easily
and overwhelm defenses so quickly; they simply jumped straight to the
Charon relay and made a beeline for Earth.

If it were a stripped down bare bones relay, then all it will have to do is function, form wouldnt be a consideration. I would estimate no more than 15 or 20 Reapers would have to be converted. 15 or 20 out of presumably tens of thousands, plenty left over for an invasion force.

[Badpie]

Omega_Spectre wrote...

I haven't seen this topic brought up anywhere, so I thought I'd start this thread about the subject. If it has been previously talked about here on the forums, forgive my oversight.

Ok, so I've played ME2 a LOT. Love the game, story, characters, and combat. But early on when I first beat ME2, I started wondering, in ME1 the Reapers can't get into the galaxy en masse because the Protheans altered the signal that the Keepers would normally respond to and activate the Citadel. And Shepard stopped Saren from giving Sovereign control of the station to activate it as well.

In ME2, if you spoke to Gianna Parasini on Illium, she mentions that people are suddenly interested in dark energy. And when you rescue Tali on Haestrom she tells you that Dholen is destabilizing because of dark energy, but that it shouldn't be.

After you spank the Collectors on their home turf and start to haul gluteus maximus out of there, Harbinger tells you that basically you still haven't stopped them and they will find another way. What if the Reapers are manipulating dark energy themselves to destabilize Dholen and use it as their "Plan B" to re-enter the galaxy?

It seems to me that the Reapers, having cleansed the galaxy countless times without breaking a sweat, became way overconfident of themselves and never imagined that one lowly organic being would step up to stop them. With their main route of entry blocked, the Reapers would now have to use a sun as some kind of portal instead of the Citadel.

Just my thoughts on the subject. If anyone else has any other plausible theories, feel free to contribute. And please, let's keep it civil.

This is a really interesting theory.  We know that whatever is going on with dark energy is important.  We also know the Reapers are coming.  We also know that in order for them to get here by their planned means it should take a pretty long time for them to get to the Milky Way (I think).  So I dunno.  Maybe this is somehow a way for them to get here sooner and before Shepard and everyone else have a chance to properly prepare.

[sympathy4saren]

This is the hot theory. I just hope they don't say its a "black hole"...a black hole's gravity is impossible to escape. Then again, with FTL drives, the escape velocity is greater.

[Bebbe777]

Just as we got a hint about the Collectors role in ME Ascension I think the dark energy in ME2 gives us a clue about ME3. The Quarians and the Noveria scientists are talking about it.

[FoxShadowblade]

If the Reapers had a way to get into the Galaxy...why would they still be out in space? Civilization has reached the mark where they want to exterminate it, as proved by the fact Sovereign was trying so hard to get the Citadel active.
It's possible that all the Noverian interests in it are actually Quarian contacts(Tali mentions the Migrant Fleet does business with Noveria on occasion in ME1), trying to find out where that dark energy came from(That is destablizing Haestrom's sun), what's causing it, so on, so forth.

Doubtful it's Reapers trying a new way into the Galaxy. But I would take that over BioWare doing something like "Look how much technology hurts nature, even in space! Ooooh -treehug, treehug-"

Modifié par FoxShadowblade, 21 décembre 2010 - 01:12 .