25 réponses à ce sujet

[shai-hulud-lama]

! http://dragonage.bio...om/da2/gallery/
are there spoilers in the video?

Edit: Changed teh title to reflect the content.

Modifié par shai-hulud-lama, 16 décembre 2010 - 09:18 .

[Seb Hanlon]

relhart wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Varrick´s running animation needs work, and didn´t like the skill and character icons. It also seems to confirm a minor problem I expected: doing a really badass looking attack on a mook and doing about 1/5 damage kinds of takes away from it.

About spells, is the AoE going to remain only a circle?

 There are probably still cone AOE abilities as well, if that's what you mean.  

There are indeed. The new cone targeting marker is styled similarly to the new circle targeting marker.

[Seb Hanlon]

Minipulator wrote...

So wait... I thought that tactical combat wasn't going to be on console? It is now? (Please say yes, I hate action RPGs)

Tactical combat looked awesome. That video completely allayed my fears about combat, at least, if it's available for consoles, too.

You can pause and switch between characters and give orders on console, just like in the PC version. The left trigger (Xbox) or L2 (PS3) is roughly equivalent to pausing with spacebar on the PC. Basically the same as in Origins. We've also added the ability to issue a "move to point" order while paused, which was missing in Origins.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Glad you guys are enjoying the video (well, most of you). A nice little skirmish to demonstrate how you play.

[John Epler]

Glad the video's being well-received! I am now terrified of Mike randomly appearing out of some darkened corner, though.

[John Epler]

I swear, if we start another discussion about people being fanboys or trolls or whatever each of y'all wants to label the 'other side' as it were, I will start requiring every post to be made in iambic pentameter. With terrible consequences for the slightest misstep.

[John Epler]

YuniSticksitDeep wrote...

As the  game will be released in a few months, would it be possible to start seeing some PC specific Gameplay Videos, (not cut scenes please).

Speaking (typing) about cut scenes....The thing I liked in Dragon's Age Origins was when they had an In-Game Cut Seen, whatever my City Elf-Girl (never actually let Alistar "do-me"...oh he so wanted to...). wore as with  my companions, played out in the seen.

I was amazed...

They are doing that as well   in  upcoming game??  (crosses fingers).

Seasons Greetings,

Yuni<3

If I understand your question correctly - whatever armour and weaponry your player is wearing/using should be reflected in cutscenes.

[Seb Hanlon]

TJPags wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

TJPags wrote...

That there is a sideways evasive move.

There is, but what they were saying was that it was a regular movement, instead of an ability with a cooldown

Which is exactly I was discussing in another thread - the Playtm peview thread, I believe - arguing that they previewers must have seen something they intrpreted as an evasive roll, regardless of what it was called or how it was implemented.  So many posters said I was wrong.  And this is what Mike Laidlaw said on the subject:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

TJPags wrote...
But I'm betting the guy who did write the preview saw something that he interpreted as an evasive roll - perhaps the dash you suggested - and I haven't seen Mike Laidlaw or any other dev state explicitly that there is no such effect which works as a lateral (rather than backflip) dodge move, regardless of what it's actually called.

"Lateral dodge: there is no such effect currently implemented into DA II."
-Mike Laidlaw, Dec 11, 2010

Not to say there couldn't be. And not to say there won't be, but currently, there isn't.

Yet now, a mere 5 days later, I see a gameplay video narrated by Mr. Laidlaw, and there it is - a lateral move that sure looks like it would work as a dodge move.

Okay, before we get all our panties in a bunch here...

I'm curious. Where in that video is the lateral dodge you're seeing? If it's the cartwheel-esque move that the rogue is performing in the "action RPG" sequence around 0:59 in the video, that's just one of the "closing" variants of a basic attack. It's not a dodge -- the PC is attacking one of the other enemies in that scrum.

The backflip out of melee at 1:04 is the Evade ability, which costs stamina and runs on a cooldown like any other ability.

[Seb Hanlon]

TJPags wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Yet now, a mere 5 days later, I see a gameplay video narrated by Mr. Laidlaw, and there it is - a lateral move that sure looks like it would work as a dodge move.

Okay, before we get all our panties in a bunch here...

I'm curious. Where in that video is the lateral dodge you're seeing? If it's the cartwheel-esque move that the rogue is performing in the "action RPG" sequence around 0:59 in the video, that's just one of the "closing" variants of a basic attack. It's not a dodge -- the PC is attacking one of the other enemies in that scrum.

The backflip out of melee at 1:04 is the Evade ability, which costs stamina and runs on a cooldown like any other ability.

You nailed it in one - that's exactly what I'm referring to.  The sideways cartwheel at 0:59.

Again, maybe it's not designed as a sideways dodge move - and frankly, I believe both you and Mike when you say it's not designed as such - but it was mentioned in some previews, and the indication was always that nobody on the dev team knew what those previewers were referring to.  I was specifically asking about a move which could act as a lateral dodge, because I was of the opinion that the previewers who mentioned it must have seen something to make them say that - they weren't just completely making things up.

And there is, in fact, such a move.  I saw it immediately, someone else knew exactly what I was referring to, and so did you.  I doubt we were the only ones to see it.

Now, okay, it's a finishing move, not an actual evasive move - but can it not function as such?  If I use that move with an enemy in front of me, will that move not result in me cartwheeling to the side, evading the attack from in front of me?

Now, understand me clearly - I don't necesarily mind that it exists.  Hell, evasive moves are useful.  I played dungeon seige on PC years ago, and it had an evasive roll I found quite useful.  So I don't mind the move existing.  But this is why I - and many others - have been clamoring for actual gameplay footage:  So we can see what there is, and decide whether it lives up to our expectations/is something we like.  Now we know.

And, btw, I was remiss in not saying in my first post - I do honestly appreciate that you guys posted this.  Mike promised us some footage soon, and he delivered, and I absolutely appreciate that. 

But as I was arguing in the other thread, whether the move exists or not seems to be a matter of semantics or point of view, or perhaps intent.  But the move is there, it seems.

The thing is, you can't use that as a dodge against a single opponent. The basic attack (at any of the ranges -- the jump-arc-stab is the longest range "closing" variant of the dual-wield rogue basic) travels directly toward the guy you're attacking. Because the rogue switched targets, in the video, he performed one of the medium-range basic closing animations which is the cartwheel, directly toward his new target.

It's fundamentally equivalent to pulling the stick and running toward your new target for a second, then attacking at melee range. Just snappier. Glad you liked the video!

Modifié par Seb Hanlon, 17 décembre 2010 - 01:36 .

[Seb Hanlon]

We've had the console-vs-PC arguments already in other threads. Let's get back on topic.

[John Epler]

We actually mean considerate. What's not shown there are the 'Apologize Profusely' and 'Pay for Funeral' abilities.

[Mike Laidlaw]

macrocarl wrote...

Imma play both tactical and actiony! Depends how much beer I'm drinking.
I love that the video was filmed in Mike Laidlaw's Mind Cave.

Slightly to my left sits the remnant of a creature too unknowable to even contemplate, and above me?

Above me lies forever.

[John Epler]

Let's cut out the 'Americans like THIS and Europeans like THIS' right now. We are a rich and varied group from all over the world, both in the studio and on our forums. If people feel like stereotyping each other based on where they're from, they won't be welcome on these forums any longer.

[Mike Laidlaw]

_KamiliuS_ wrote...
And this silly advertising campaign confuse me even more. Can't you just skip all this bullsh*t and say what DA2 REALLY is?

It is a video game.

Done and done.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
However, I will say that because the combat looks frantic, it has utterly failed the design team's objective that it be fun to watch.

That was never an objective. Fun to play, fun to look at while playing. Fun to watch implies you can just put down your mouse or controller and enjoy a sandwich, and my feelings on sandwich-play pretty much match my feelings on shuffling into combat.

[Mike Laidlaw]

_KamiliuS_ wrote...
PS. Do you think BioWare team reads all our concerns, doubts - and laughs?

No, we don't. That would make us colossal dicks, and as a general rule, the Doctors don't employ dicks.

We do read them. We wish that, on occassion, we would receive the benefit of the doubt, instead of people leaping to the worst possible interpretation of everything, ever, but we also understand that people who enjoy something rarely post at all, or if they do, they post once. It's quite rare that anyone is prepared to "go to the mat" over something they enjoy, but if you're angry/feeling betrayed/having a bad day/whatever, you'll keep repeating your point in the hope that maybe it will change, or at the very least that you'll be vindicated when whatever has you angry doesn't change, and sucks.

And, of course, the other reason people often leap to the worst interpretation is to fish out facts from us. "Hey, if I say something incredibly inflammatory, maybe they'll post how it really works. Ha ha! That will show them." Sometimes it works, but often it works because we're prepared to talk about it anyway.

Regardless, reading forums is a good way to keep yourself grounded, and humble, and after you do it a while, you learn to ignore the stuff that's just ravening attacks or attempts to troll. What the trolls never realize is that they're spending more of their time trying to make people angry than people actually spend angry. It's pretty easy to dismiss annoyance, and on a more personal note working customer service at a major telecommunication company for 3 years has made me pretty zen about vitriol. Sometimes people just have bad days, and have to let loose, the key is to not take it home with you.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Lady of the Waters wrote...

It seems there are a lot of fire based spells. Where are the ice and lightning spells at?

Slightly to the right of the fire spells.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Blessed Silence wrote...

Oooh is Mr Laidlaw growing a beard??? *squeeee*

Kinda! It doesn't take much. Scottish background seems to have pushed me fully into the facialhair++ category.

[Mike Laidlaw]

_KamiliuS_ wrote...

I agree with you, Phoenix. The fight was so fast and chaotic I had no idea where Hawke is. It seemed he was teleporting from one position to another. And if BioWare really want it to be in that way, well...

You sound like you should turn on ground rings. Though they may ship on by default in the PC version. Helps with targeting.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Brockololly wrote...

I want to know why Hawke and Friends seem infatuated with twirling their weapons at every possible instance as soon as they finish a strike.....seriously, I'd love to have some mage go Indiana Jones on Hawke and Friends when they're busy twirling their sword/staffs....ugh.

The shuffle has been replaced with the twirl.

If you elect to control a single character, you will see that they go through a selection of moves when they attack. The moves flow into one another creating a visual flow for the way the character attacks. In testing, we found that if the pace of each hit was identical, it would create a sense of repetition, and disengagement in the people playing. "I hit, I hit, I hit, I hit, I hit, I hit..." and so on. Looking at how to break that up, we elected to create moves that took slightly longer to execute (via flourish, twirl or what have you), but that inflict higher than usual damage. Doing so creates more visual variety, gives the combat a sense of pacing that was absent in origins and generally give the characters more personality than just going "I swing my sword left. Now I swing my sword right."

If you do not like that personality, there's little I can do about it, and even less I would want to do about it. As with so many things, it's largely an aesthetic choice, and when you make an aesthetic choice there will always be people who do not match your opinion, which is why it is aesthetic, and not emperical. I'm prepared to live with a few complaints about twirl if it results in an experience that has tested better in terms of overall feel and pacing any day. To my mind, the important part is that we MADE a choice, backed it up with data and built a game that works well with that choice.

Modifié par Mike Laidlaw, 19 décembre 2010 - 12:57 .

[Mike Laidlaw]

tmp7704 wrote...
Just curious, but if it's steady pace that was the issue, then wouldn't making the "flourish moves" actually play longer (by say, turning them into swings with a bit of preparation and more force put into them) ... result in achieving the same effect (breaking up the steady pace) but at the same time possibly avoiding the complaint about Hawke itching to get back to his/her cheerleader practice?

Sure. And then you'd be missing people who ran past you because you took forever to wind up your swing, since they'd move out of range, which would suck.

And as to complaints that our combat looks flashy or cheerleadery, please refer to my earlier post. I'm well aware that there are people who preferred the deliberate movements of Origins. I'm also aware that there are people who found those same movements to be glacial.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Schneidend wrote...

Hm. Was Aveline hurting all of the paralyzed guys with each swing in the "Pause-and-play" portion? If so, awesome. If not, a couple of them were apparently bleeding for now reason. =P

Warriors are capable of performing arc attacks in melee. Two handers can hit roughly three targets even with a basic swing, if the targets are clustered up.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Piecake wrote...

I personally have a hard time reconciling dark, gritty, down-to-earth fantasy with killing hordes and hordes of enemies while being vastly outnumbered.

I believe that if we were -really- going to go gritty, we would have to fundamentally re-examine combat from every aspect. The first step would be to cut mages, or to drastically reduce them in effect. So long as we are working in a world where mages can throw fireballs (or at least more than one a week, or something very limiting), there will be SOME element of the world that's over the top.

I think Dragon Age II does a much better job of simply accepting that, and in response it brings parity to the classes. Rogues and warriors receive some degree of over-the-top as well, which I think makes for a stronger visual presentation, and a better feel, because all three classes are consistent.

The other step we could have taken would have been slapping mages with harsher and harsher realism, and I am quite certain that a number of people here would have loved that. I'm also quite certain that you could make an excellent game by doing exactly that, just as I firmly believe that you can make an excellent game by doing what we did.

And no, I do not, and did not expect everyone to embrace the changes. I'm too much of a realist for that, but so far the people who have enjoyed the game after playing it have vastly outstripped the people who have not, which is as good a response as a game designer could ever hope for.

[Mike Laidlaw]

Schneidend wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Warriors are capable of performing arc attacks in melee. Two handers can hit roughly three targets even with a basic swing, if the targets are clustered up.

I had heard that, but even one-handers get arc swings? Does each "hit" generate threat/aggro?

Yes, and yes. Though one-handers hit a smaller arc.

[Mike Laidlaw]

adembroski11 wrote...

I will, however, say that the visual effects on sustained spells are very distracting... I'm not fond of conversing with someone in a cut scene and have him pay absolutely no heed to the fact that I'm standing on a glowing red pentagram and appear to be being attacked by a swarm of glowing purple butterflies.

No longer a problem. The effects are suppressed during explore and combat. I prefer to think of it as the mages "firing up" their buffs and auras automatically at the start of combat, since that's exactly what it looks like.

Rock armor...mmmm. There's nothing better at the start of a fight. It's...quite a bit cooler than just coloring you grey, these days.