1012 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

TJPags wrote...

Now, okay, it's a finishing move, not an actual evasive move - but
can it not function as such?  If I use that move with an enemy in front
of me, will that move not result in me cartwheeling to the side,
evading the attack from in front of me?

It's not a finishing move. It's just switching targets. Characters jump in on the next target to attack if you swap targets. Damage is frontloaded, so I don't think you can actually evade damage by clicking to move from enemy to enemy.

But as I was arguing in the other thread, whether the move exists
or not seems to be a matter of semantics or point of view, or perhaps
intent.  But the move is there, it seems.

Well, no. It's a question of gameplay. Can you use it to avoid attacks? If you can't, it doesn't matter what it looks like.

[Maria Caliban]

Nefario wrote...

Don't get me wrong, you're certainly entitled to dislike it. I just find it surprising that you do.

Now that we've seen PC gameplay, Brockololly is adrift and looking for a complaint log to cling to.

[Shevy]

Uhhh , totally liked it. Now I'm convinced and will set my pre-order.

Tactical combat looks awesome and hopefully it'll be really challenging on the higher difficulties.

[Brockololly]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Now that we've seen PC gameplay, Brockololly is adrift and looking for a complaint log to cling to.

Ha- no.

I like how the combat seems to be shaping up mechanistically. I'll gladly eat crow if the game ends up truly looking a good deal better with DX11 and all on the PC. I'm not seeing it thus far.

Since the bootleg footage broke out and since the first screens came out, I have not been impressed with how the game looks, amongst other changes I'm not too fond of or want to see in action (the dialogue system).

I've not been adrift- I've been firmly on the complaint log against anime inspired, floaty, Hot Rod Samurai the entire time.


If you want to see a nice game appropriate UI thats functional and has some character, watch the Shogun 2 gameplay walkthrough that released today- a whole 16 minutes of it. All I'm saying is that compared to Origins' UI, the DA2 one looks rather spartan and drab.

[slimgrin]

Mike should have done this video while shining a flashlight on his face from below.


Anyway, so you can play both ways on pc, which is just great. The animations are still stop-and-go in spots, but to me this resembles Origins gameplay.

One major gripe though: lots of screen space taken up by the new 'mini' map and character status bars. I don't understand this decision at all, unless it was done purely for console. I much prefer the contained, minimized UI of Origins.

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 décembre 2010 - 01:54 .

[Blacklash93]

*sigh* Why does no one answer my question about Evade...?

I'm not convinced just yet. I'm sold on the new combat, but I'm not sure if this will end up being as polished as it should be. ME2 set many standards for me when it comes to polish and visuals in Bioware games and it's seems very doubtful DA2 will match up to those right now.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 17 décembre 2010 - 01:51 .

[Aermas]

It too over the top for my tastes. Far too much flash & boom

[upsettingshorts]

Brockololly wrote...

If you want to see a nice game appropriate UI thats functional and has some character, watch the Shogun 2 gameplay walkthrough that released today- a whole 16 minutes of it.

Oooh, Battle Report #2.  I will by hyped up by the promises of better, more reactive AI only to be disappointed after buying the game.  Like every game in the series!

Still, must stop everything and watch.

[LordGarm]

I don't like the HUD that much. But other than that I'm convinced with the more tactical approach to combat - it really is similar to Origins.

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

Brockololly wrote...

If you want to see a nice game appropriate UI thats functional and has some character, watch the Shogun 2 gameplay walkthrough that released today- a whole 16 minutes of it. All I'm saying is that compared to Origins' UI, the DA2 one looks rather spartan and drab.

It shows how people view things different but being spartan is one of the things I like about it. Hell I would like it to be more so, ie; all grey and more transparent all around. For me if I can still use the UI with seeing as little of it as possible is the best thing for me.

[Addai]

1varangian wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

1varangian wrote...

Did you read the earlier posts? Flashy doesn't have to mean silly and over the top. Especially in an RPG where the story and characters have to be believable.

Gotcha, dodging the question. 

How flashy combat moves are related to the story?

The way the characters of the story are portrayed in every aspect of the game define them. If I see someone flipping around like the DA2 Rogue or shooting 100 arrows simultaneously with a crossbow, or spin kicking glass vials at the enemy, I will have a preconceived view on the characters as being silly and unbelievable when I see them in a dramatic cutscene. It lessens the impact the characters and events will have on me.

I just enjoy stories and RPGs more when they look and feel believable, as opposed to looking like a game. The Witcher has proved you can have all these things - look cool and impressive but believable at the same time and also play well as a game.

Same for me, although I will add that I found the same problem in The Witcher with the female characters, because they were not presented seriously.  Lo and behold we have Isabela's watermelons, too.  <_<  But otherwise the art and combat animations were really well done, the world was almost tactile it was so real.

It's also the difference I find between Fallout and Borderlands.  I love the former, cannot play the latter with its crappy "stylization."  The difference here is not as stark but still, not what I had hoped to see out of a game promising to be darker and grittier than DAO.

Are we still going to get an isometric camera or is that out?  The other question I have is, if you can play it as an action RPG without pause and play, is it going to be so easy that it's not necessary to pause and play?

Modifié par Addai67, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:00 .

[upsettingshorts]

In that Shogun 2 video the tactical deployment by the narrating developer was so awful that I can't really be impressed at the AI's total victory.

Confucious say no siege equipment necessary to scale walls means putting ranged soldiers up front is dumb.  I woulda done the opposite he did and spread out my melee to cover the walls (make them fight over the top) and move my ranged forces in bulk to respond to where the attack is pressing the hardest to try to thin them out and support my infantry.

Anyway, enough on that tangent.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:04 .

[TJPags]

Seb Hanlon wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Yet now, a mere 5 days later, I see a gameplay video narrated by Mr. Laidlaw, and there it is - a lateral move that sure looks like it would work as a dodge move.

Okay, before we get all our panties in a bunch here...

I'm curious. Where in that video is the lateral dodge you're seeing? If it's the cartwheel-esque move that the rogue is performing in the "action RPG" sequence around 0:59 in the video, that's just one of the "closing" variants of a basic attack. It's not a dodge -- the PC is attacking one of the other enemies in that scrum.

The backflip out of melee at 1:04 is the Evade ability, which costs stamina and runs on a cooldown like any other ability.

You nailed it in one - that's exactly what I'm referring to.  The sideways cartwheel at 0:59.

Again, maybe it's not designed as a sideways dodge move - and frankly, I believe both you and Mike when you say it's not designed as such - but it was mentioned in some previews, and the indication was always that nobody on the dev team knew what those previewers were referring to.  I was specifically asking about a move which could act as a lateral dodge, because I was of the opinion that the previewers who mentioned it must have seen something to make them say that - they weren't just completely making things up.

And there is, in fact, such a move.  I saw it immediately, someone else knew exactly what I was referring to, and so did you.  I doubt we were the only ones to see it.

Now, okay, it's a finishing move, not an actual evasive move - but can it not function as such?  If I use that move with an enemy in front of me, will that move not result in me cartwheeling to the side, evading the attack from in front of me?

Now, understand me clearly - I don't necesarily mind that it exists.  Hell, evasive moves are useful.  I played dungeon seige on PC years ago, and it had an evasive roll I found quite useful.  So I don't mind the move existing.  But this is why I - and many others - have been clamoring for actual gameplay footage:  So we can see what there is, and decide whether it lives up to our expectations/is something we like.  Now we know.

And, btw, I was remiss in not saying in my first post - I do honestly appreciate that you guys posted this.  Mike promised us some footage soon, and he delivered, and I absolutely appreciate that. 

But as I was arguing in the other thread, whether the move exists or not seems to be a matter of semantics or point of view, or perhaps intent.  But the move is there, it seems.

The thing is, you can't use that as a dodge against a single opponent. The basic attack (at any of the ranges -- the jump-arc-stab is the longest range "closing" variant of the dual-wield rogue basic) travels directly toward the guy you're attacking. Because the rogue switched targets, in the video, he performed one of the medium-range basic closing animations which is the cartwheel, directly toward his new target.

It's fundamentally equivalent to pulling the stick and running toward your new target for a second, then attacking at melee range. Just snappier. Glad you liked the video!

I understand completely what you're saying here - it's an attack move, not an evasive move.  And I can see how and why you can't use it against a single opponent.  But you can use it to attack the guy to the side, and in the process, evade the guy in front of you.  This is clearly what the previewer was referring to, and sure, it seems he didn't understand how it works - hell, I understand what it looks like, but certainly not the behind the scenes mechanics, although I hope I can catch on a little better than the previewer did once I play the game. 

I did, overall, like the video, and as I said, I do honestly appreciate that it was released, and that it was released shortly after Mike promised it would be.

It's just that I do see a move which can be used as a sideways evasion when fighting multiple opponents - and I kind of like the idea of it.

See?  Giving us information can be a good thing. 

[slimgrin]

Some animations, like Aveline's and Beth's, are really quite cool. I guess it's the rouge that seems to get gravity defying. I'm pretty convinced they've enhanced the ability to play in real time.



And thanks for finally showing some pc footage.

[TJPags]

Blacklash93 wrote...

*sigh* Why does no one answer my question about Evade...?

I'm not convinced just yet. I'm sold on the new combat, but I'm not sure if this will end up being as polished as it should be. ME2 set many standards for me when it comes to polish and visuals in Bioware games and it's seems very doubtful DA2 will match up to those right now.

Regarding the backflip - Mike Laidlaw did say in another thread that the backflip would flip you directly opposite from your opponent - backwards, in other words.  So it doesn't seem you can choose the direction you evade - it's backwards.
So make sure nobody is behind you, I guess. 

Hope that helps.

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

In that Shogun 2 video the tactical deployment by the narrating developer was so awful that I can't really be impressed at the AI's total victory. Anyway, enough on that tangent.

Yeah- its like he tried to deploy in the most terrible way to make the AI look good. I mean why put all your melee guys in the center, only to bring them down as the other army easily takes the lower walls since he didn't even deploy his archers out far enough?!

[IRMcGhee]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

If you want to see a nice game appropriate UI thats functional and has some character, watch the Shogun 2 gameplay walkthrough that released today- a whole 16 minutes of it.

Oooh, Battle Report #2.  I will by hyped up by the promises of better, more reactive AI only to be disappointed after buying the game.  Like every game in the series!

Still, must stop everything and watch.

As long as the Ninja videos are back, I'm sold:ph34r:

[blothulfur]

Kirkwall's looking nice, thanks for footage biofolk will order special edition now.

[DragonRageGT]

Sorry, didn't read all posts but... the interface showed in the Combat Walktrough video is... AWFUL!

Damn, squared party icons? Sure, it's only a matter of personal taste but all the rest? All the refinement, the amazing details you can observe in DA:Origins are gone, at least in this video, in this stage. I felt like I was watching a revamped GUI from Dungeon Siege 2 or something that old

Will they give it the same attention as they did for DA:O? If you don't know what I'm talking about, compare the details in DA:O quickbar, even in the empty slots. Compare the "Paused" sign at middle screen when the game is paused. DA:2, as shown in this CW video is UGLY! I do hope it's just a pre-finished GUI and it has nothing to do with the low console users degree of exigence but if it is not, when the game is released and if this poor interface is the final stuff, I will go in a killing spree and shotgun every console I can find in every store that sells them that I can find!

As soon as I finish uploading the combat walkthrough to my YouTube I will make a comparison video between DA:O and this DA2-CW vid.

Now this is a Rogue in a awesomely developed game, even with its bugs, flaws, etc. FU EA if you give us less than this!

Dragon Age - Rogues have fun too!

Modifié par RageGT, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[Maria Caliban]

Addai67 wrote...

Same for me, although I will add that I found the same problem in The Witcher with the female characters, because they were not presented seriously.  Lo and behold we have Isabela's watermelons, too.  <_<

Amusingly, in Witcher 2 Triss wears sensible clothing. She has Isabela's boots and has pants.

[TJPags]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Same for me, although I will add that I found the same problem in The Witcher with the female characters, because they were not presented seriously.  Lo and behold we have Isabela's watermelons, too.  <_<

Amusingly, in Witcher 2 Triss wears sensible clothing. She has Isabela's boots and has pants.

Bah, that's clearly way too restrictive for real combat.

I bet she's not even wearing a thong. 

[Blacklash93]

TJPags wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

*sigh* Why does no one answer my question about Evade...?

I'm not convinced just yet. I'm sold on the new combat, but I'm not sure if this will end up being as polished as it should be. ME2 set many standards for me when it comes to polish and visuals in Bioware games and it's seems very doubtful DA2 will match up to those right now.

Regarding the backflip - Mike Laidlaw did say in another thread that the backflip would flip you directly opposite from your opponent - backwards, in other words.  So it doesn't seem you can choose the direction you evade - it's backwards.
So make sure nobody is behind you, I guess. 

Hope that helps.

Might as well have just called it Backflip, then. Evade is a bit of a broader term for avoiding attacks... a bit too broad for what the ability entails.

One more question, if anyone would be so kind to answer:
Are normal backstabs still in? Does flankng as rouge still have any statistical benefits?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 17 décembre 2010 - 02:31 .