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New Combat Video for DA2 discussion thread (No spoilers)


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#726
Crimson Invictus

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b09boy wrote...
I actually think it's a bit telling that the player practically did everything they could to kill Hawke, including friendly fire attacks, yet he came out alive.


It would also be fair to say they are unlikely to release a demo a little over three minutes long simply to have half the demo show Hawke dead on the ground.

Maria Caliban wrote...
Hawke: Heal pls!
Bethany: y u tke so much dmg bro?
Hawke: noob tank
Aveline: wtf
Aveline: Dont take my aggro n you won't get hurt
Hawke: lol. SO slow! have you never run KRWL before?
Aveline: I'm not slow. I was waiting for Varric to pull.
Varric: Sorry. :) Taking with my mom.
Hawke: pull? these are trash mobs. noob tank
Aveline: I am not a noob!!!
Aveline: Let me attack FIRST n you wont get hit!!
Hawke: whao. rage
Bethany: sry av. nxt?
Aveline: Sure. *stars next mob* Ready Varric?
Varric:
Aveline: Varric? You there?
Hawke: OMFG. noob! *rushes into next mob*


No one blamed the healer, I find this unlikely.

Modifié par Liana Nighthawk, 18 décembre 2010 - 06:24 .


#727
b09boy

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Liana Nighthawk wrote...

It would also be fair to say they are unlikely to release a demo a little over three minutes long simply to have half the demo show Hawke dead on the ground.


While true, this doesn't really counter the points made.  The player still put Hawke in every position he could to die yet he didn't do so.  More, the party won both battles so if the demo continued he still would have lived.

#728
Crimson Invictus

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b09boy wrote...
While true, this doesn't really counter the points made.  The player still put Hawke in every position he could to die yet he didn't do so.  More, the party won both battles so if the demo continued he still would have lived.


My point would be you neither know the difficult it was on nor do you know if Hawke actually could die in that demo. I suspect the demo was simply to show you can choose to either pause and give commands or simply swap between characters on the fly to give commands and very little else. 

#729
b09boy

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Difficult enough to allow friendly fire, so if anything like Origins then probably on Normal.  The question of whether or not he could die never came up as, though health became low, it clearly never ran out.

And yeah, the video was just to show the different ways of doing things.  Doesn't mean we can't glean any info on the side.

Modifié par b09boy, 18 décembre 2010 - 06:41 .


#730
RedShft

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Looks awesome! Good work!

#731
Snoteye

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b09boy wrote...

And yeah, the video was just to show the different ways of doing things. Doesn't mean we can't glean any info on the side.

It does mean any info you glean is going to be unreliable until confirmed. The video is meant to show a specific thing, that means anything else going on can be entirely circumstantial.

#732
Adhin

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Yeah also you seem to assume theres friendly fire on. They already said its not in normal mode, its in the harder difficulties (either only in Hardcore or like how it was on consoles for DAO). If you watch it again Aveline takes 0 dmg from the Arrow storm or the fire raining down thing. I think based off that its pretty safe to say that friendly fire is not on, and they often play on easy mode to showcase stuff.

Modifié par Adhin, 18 décembre 2010 - 07:02 .


#733
sickserb

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is the UI going to stay like that? kind of looks... dumbed down

#734
Snoteye

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The UI is largely final.

#735
In Exile

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FF wasn't on in the DA:O gameplay vids either, I believe, or at least the team was highly overpowered. Bioware does this to show of the gameplay without a) embarassing whoever is playing and B) to avoid constant reloads and repeats.

#736
The Drwal

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b09boy wrote...

I have concerns about the ease of the game after this.  Yes, the game looks like it runs much smoother and that is excellent (aside from how over-the-top it tends to be, which I don't like, but that's more style preference and not a gameplay one).  But my concern is that, though you can play tactically, you won't really need to and thus probably won't - I mean, how many people planned out advanced strategies against garbage mobs in Origins, for instance.  If they're saying the game can be played without pause to give it a more action feel then the difficulty has probably been brought down to allow this.  Pause is a function to allow you and your party to deliver and exact set of strategies in a timely fashion and was nearly required in many parts of Origins despite how easy it could be to a properly built party lead by a knowledgable player.  If the game is designed to be able to go without it I just don't see how it will be as much a challenge.

"But Hawke almost died twice in there!" I know some might say.  And yes he did.  But only because whoever was playing was doing so carelessly.  I don't know a single game, no matter the difficulty, where it's a good idea to charge a squishy class of character literally straight into the middle of a large group of enemies.  Neither do I know of a game in which friendly fire is present where it is a good idea to drop a pair of your most powerful AoE attacks directly on top of the same squishy character's head.  There's a difference between dying because it's difficult and dying because you're role playing Leroy Jenkins.  I actually think it's a bit telling that the player practically did everything they could to kill Hawke, including friendly fire attacks, yet he came out alive.



They said some time ago FF will be on Nightmare difficulty only. DA2 is Action-RPG and it can't be difficult to play. I wonder what DA2 is. Mr. Laidllaw said it can be played more like Action-RPG, or more tactical. So, DA2 is either:
 - Action-RPG with easy gameplay, and you don't need all this tactical stuff. Many players who prefer action games (mainly console owners) will then buy DA2, but BioWare gonna lose "old fans," who would like to see more "classical" gameplay (similar situation to ME2 - I personally know some FPS fans who enjoy ME2, but complain about "why are there skills, ship upgrades and long conversations, it will be better game without all this crap", and RPG fans, who think ME2 is an affront to role playing games)
 - called "action-RPG', but with challenging gameplay, which requires tactical pause and wise character development. In this option wide action-loving audience Bioware is aiming for will buy DA2, but may not enjoy it.
Both options are bad. I consider myself as a "classic RPG fan" and have no idea what I should think about DA2. What I saw so far clearly shows the game is an easy slasher, where you don't need to use your brain too often. But a few times Bioware said some things, which make me think DA2 will NOT be such mindless game. So what is true?

And this silly advertising campaign confuse me even more. Can't you just skip all this bullsh*t and say what DA2 REALLY is? This game game will be bestseller with no doubt. But will it become legend?


(I hope all I've just written above is readable. I'm not yet able to write down my thoughts in english as I would like to :unsure:)

Modifié par _KamiliuS_, 18 décembre 2010 - 09:17 .


#737
nightcobra

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_KamiliuS_ wrote...

b09boy wrote...

I have concerns about the ease of the game after this.  Yes, the game looks like it runs much smoother and that is excellent (aside from how over-the-top it tends to be, which I don't like, but that's more style preference and not a gameplay one).  But my concern is that, though you can play tactically, you won't really need to and thus probably won't - I mean, how many people planned out advanced strategies against garbage mobs in Origins, for instance.  If they're saying the game can be played without pause to give it a more action feel then the difficulty has probably been brought down to allow this.  Pause is a function to allow you and your party to deliver and exact set of strategies in a timely fashion and was nearly required in many parts of Origins despite how easy it could be to a properly built party lead by a knowledgable player.  If the game is designed to be able to go without it I just don't see how it will be as much a challenge.

"But Hawke almost died twice in there!" I know some might say.  And yes he did.  But only because whoever was playing was doing so carelessly.  I don't know a single game, no matter the difficulty, where it's a good idea to charge a squishy class of character literally straight into the middle of a large group of enemies.  Neither do I know of a game in which friendly fire is present where it is a good idea to drop a pair of your most powerful AoE attacks directly on top of the same squishy character's head.  There's a difference between dying because it's difficult and dying because you're role playing Leroy Jenkins.  I actually think it's a bit telling that the player practically did everything they could to kill Hawke, including friendly fire attacks, yet he came out alive.



They said some time ago FF will be on Nightmare difficulty only. DA2 is Action-RPG and it can't be difficult to play. I wonder what DA2 is. Mr. Laidllaw said it can be played more like Action-RPG, or more tactical. So, DA2 is either:
 - Action-RPG with easy gameplay, and you don't need all this tactical stuff. Many players who prefer action games (mainly console owners) will then buy DA2, but BioWare gonna lose "old fans," who would like to see more "classical" gameplay (similar situation to ME2 - I personally know some FPS fans who enjoy ME2, but complain about "why are there skills, ship upgrades and long conversations, it will be better game without all this crap", and RPG fans, who think ME2 is an affront to role playing games)
 - called "action-RPG', but with challenging gameplay, which requires tactical pause and wise character development. In this option wide action-loving audience Bioware is aiming for will buy DA2, but may not enjoy it.
Both options are bad. I consider myself as a "classic RPG fan" and have no idea what I should think about DA2. What I saw so far clearly shows the game is an easy slasher, where you don't need to use your brain too often. But a few times Bioware said some things, which make me think DA2 will NOT be such mindless game. So what is true?

And this silly advertising campaign confuse me even more. Can't you just skip all this bullsh*t and say what DA2 REALLY is?


(I hope all I've just written above is readable. I'm not yet able to write down my thoughts in english as I would like to :unsure:)


Posted Image

bunny is not pleased at that statement <_<

#738
The Drwal

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Doesn't matter. I based this statement on what I saw on Polish Social and what people there say about DA2. Most of them are not happy...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think action games on consoles are for dumbs. They are just challenging in different way than RPG should be. And I like action games too.

Modifié par _KamiliuS_, 18 décembre 2010 - 09:26 .


#739
Rixxencaxx

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_KamiliuS_ wrote...



This game game will be bestseller with no doubt. But will it become legend?


(I hope all I've just written above is readable. I'm not yet able to write down my thoughts in english as I would like to :unsure:)




Don't think so....previewers are not so interested in the game...and people reaction is not so good.....this game could be the first bioware epic fail....

Modifié par Rixxencaxx, 18 décembre 2010 - 09:27 .


#740
Morroian

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_KamiliuS_ wrote...

They said some time ago FF will be on Nightmare difficulty only. DA2 is Action-RPG and it can't be difficult to play. I wonder what DA2 is. Mr. Laidllaw said it can be played more like Action-RPG, or more tactical. So, DA2 is either:
 - Action-RPG with easy gameplay, and you don't need all this tactical stuff. Many players who prefer action games (mainly console owners) will then buy DA2, but BioWare gonna lose "old fans," who would like to see more "classical" gameplay 

This vid at least partially addressed those concerns by showing DA2 could be played tactically in a similar manner to DAO (minus the iso view).

_KamiliuS_ wrote...
 - called "action-RPG', but with challenging gameplay, which requires tactical pause and wise character development. In this option wide action-loving audience Bioware is aiming for will buy DA2, but may not enjoy it.
Both options are bad. I consider myself as a "classic RPG fan" and have no idea what I should think about DA2. What I saw so far clearly shows the game is an easy slasher, where you don't need to use your brain too often. But a few times Bioware said some things, which make me think DA2 will NOT be such mindless game. So what is true?

This vid demonstrated that it won't be a mindless hack and slash. And it undoubtedly will have a deep story because thats whats Bioware is known for.

_KamiliuS_ wrote...
And this silly advertising campaign confuse me even more. Can't you just skip all this bullsh*t and say what DA2 REALLY is? 

Why can't it be both? Action with no pausing on easier difficulty but harder more tactical gameplay on harder difficulties.

Modifié par Morroian, 18 décembre 2010 - 09:28 .


#741
Wulfram

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_KamiliuS_ wrote...

And this silly advertising campaign confuse me even more. Can't you just skip all this bullsh*t and say what DA2 REALLY is?


It's DA:O, but faster and with flashy animations.

#742
Tsuga C

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_KamiliuS_ wrote...
(I hope all I've just written above is readable. I'm not yet able to write down my thoughts in english as I would like to :unsure:)


Your prose is clear and the points you make are easily understood.  And I largely concur.  Posted Image

#743
The Bard From Hell

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I believe the two different aproaches are for two different tipes of people: those that like to think, and those that like to quickly press bottons in a fight, using the best of their skills. Are they dumb? Nope (I wouldn't call myself dumb), it's just their preference. Both aproaches yelded the same results, so I believe that both shall be equivalent.



So people who prefer to play it like an action game (sorry to be the one to say this, but many good action games require a lot of skill) or as an more tactical RPG. I didn't saw difficulty and stupidity get into the entire combat, sinse in the action part the player had to chain togheter his attacks as the things went, using Evade when an enemy was going to hit him, and using his skills as the situation saw fit. While in the tactal aproach he tough beforehand, and things went how he wanted them, with the enemies getting caugh in the trap, etc.



But again, the results where the same.

#744
Sigil_Beguiler123

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What I like about it is I am someone who likes both styles. As such depending on my mood I can play either more action-oriented or pause-and-play oriented in the same game. Hell, in the same battle if I want too.

#745
Faust1979

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game looks awesome I liked the gameplay video playing a warrior looks like it will be a lot more fun

#746
Vena_86

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It is nice that you can play with two different approaches but that will probably result in a game that is far too easy if you go for more efficient, tactical gamepaly (version two).

If you play with the pause button as your best friend then effectively you will be better, as every second is used to maximum potential.

People who prefer more action focussed game are usually the same who prefer a less challanging/frustrating game. But looking at things right now, without further adjustments the action focussed, direct gameplay would be harder one, which is contradicting the actual target audience.

I hope they find a way to balance things out, or I fear tactical baldurs gate style gameplay will be too easy, even on maximum difficulty.

#747
Herr Uhl

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Vena_86 wrote...

It is nice that you can play with two different approaches but that will probably result in a game that is far too easy if you go for more efficient, tactical gamepaly (version two).
If you play with the pause button as your best friend then effectively you will be better, as every second is used to maximum potential.
People who prefer more action focussed game are usually the same who prefer a less challanging/frustrating game. But looking at things right now, without further adjustments the action focussed, direct gameplay would be harder one, which is contradicting the actual target audience.
I hope they find a way to balance things out, or I fear tactical baldurs gate style gameplay will be too easy, even on maximum difficulty.


Or, they just make modes above normal nigh unplayable without manually ordering your NPC's. Not that that happened in Origins, but you can hope.

#748
Avilia

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I'm not much of a pauser tbh - I like to rush in and kill stuff. For me, I find pausing takes me out of the battle too much and makes it less realistic (as much as I hate to use that term in this context). I don't mind dying a few times in pursuit of victory. (I used to raid in EQ2 so dying repeatedly doesn't phase or frustrate me...too much).



I like the look of the combat - another tick for DA2 - at this rate I'll be keen by the time it comes out ;-)

#749
Sable Phoenix

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That just looks...

Alright, speaking as someone with a Bachelor's in computer animation, those combat animations are absolutely awful. They are twitchy and there is absolutely no weight to them whatsoever. I can understand the desire to make the combat more dynamic... in Origins a lot of the fighting was all about maneuvering into place so you could hack away. But making the characters charge halfway across the battlefield or leap into the air and swing in a fraction of a second removes any sense that they're actually moving or hitting anything.  You might as well just have your character teleport next to the enemy and the enemy fall over... that's pretty close to what's happening already, anyway.  Camera shake will not give extra weight to an animation that lacks any.

Color me unimpressed.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 18 décembre 2010 - 10:15 .


#750
Tsuga C

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Sable Phoenix wrote...
Color me unimpressed.


You don't want your protagonist to be a raquetball on crack?  Posted Image

Me neither.  Posted Image