1012 réponses à ce sujet

[MysterD]

Vid looks great...

...But I still want the DAO overhead tactical cam back.

[Piecake]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Legolas is justified as superior elven agility and balance (excepting the oliphant, he seemed spiderman there), but both Gimli and Aragorn use normal movements, nothing even close to what we see in DA2. DA2 is halfway to wuxia or a bad action flick from this decade. You can have over the top and still look good and coherent to the world (Arkahm Asylum, the Berserk comic), but BW thinks the more exagerated the better it´ll sell. While I don´t want the game to fail, it´s something I´d like to see proved wrong.

Personally, I find a normal, skilled dude killing enemies by the hunderds less believable than a special dude killing enemies by the hundreds, so if we are going to kill scores and scores of enemies I'd rather have special dudes.

If we arent, that works too, but I think you'd have to drastically change the amount of enemies that you'd face and significantly alter combat mechanics to make the fight work.  That sounds pretty interesting.  No idea if it would be any fun though. 

[In Exile]

Nerevar-as wrote...
Legolas is justified as superior elven agility and balance (excepting the oliphant, he seemed spiderman there), but both Gimli and Aragorn use normal movements, nothing even close to what we see in DA2. DA2 is halfway to wuxia or a bad action flick from this decade. You can have over the top and still look good and coherent to the world (Arkahm Asylum, the Berserk comic), but BW thinks the more exagerated the better it´ll sell. While I don´t want the game to fail, it´s something I´d like to see proved wrong.

....Have you been reading Berserk at all? Guts quite literally rips people in half with a sword that is impossible to wear, twirls his sword like it's a baton, does not wear any kind of realistic armour, and now that he's swapped his armour with the Berserk armour, he is jumping around and flying and crushing bones with his two-hander in a way that puts DA2 to shame.

As for Legolas - if you're going to grant BS like ''superior elven agility and balance'' (which is not at all a lore-based trait for elves in Tolkien) then we can certainly say the superior rogue agility and balance make their abilities possible. And Aragon and Glimli do not use normal movements. First, they don't even wear armour - Aragon is in street clothes for 3 movies, as is Legolas. And Aragon is a melee fighter. Gimli is the closest you get to armour. Then we've got Aragon's sword twirling and acrobatics.

[Nerevar-as]

In Exile wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
Legolas is justified as superior elven agility and balance (excepting the oliphant, he seemed spiderman there), but both Gimli and Aragorn use normal movements, nothing even close to what we see in DA2. DA2 is halfway to wuxia or a bad action flick from this decade. You can have over the top and still look good and coherent to the world (Arkahm Asylum, the Berserk comic), but BW thinks the more exagerated the better it´ll sell. While I don´t want the game to fail, it´s something I´d like to see proved wrong.

....Have you been reading Berserk at all? Guts quite literally rips people in half with a sword that is impossible to wear, twirls his sword like it's a baton, does not wear any kind of realistic armour, and now that he's swapped his armour with the Berserk armour, he is jumping around and flying and crushing bones with his two-hander in a way that puts DA2 to shame.

As for Legolas - if you're going to grant BS like ''superior elven agility and balance'' (which is not at all a lore-based trait for elves in Tolkien) then we can certainly say the superior rogue agility and balance make their abilities possible. And Aragon and Glimli do not use normal movements. First, they don't even wear armour - Aragon is in street clothes for 3 movies, as is Legolas. And Aragon is a melee fighter. Gimli is the closest you get to armour. Then we've got Aragon's sword twirling and acrobatics.

I said coherent to the world. Berserk does explain why Gutts can fight like he does with a 10-20 kilo sword. Elves could walk on fresh snow and had indeed excellent sense of balance (crossing the river?), but we are going off-topic. DA2 is still in Thedas, and it seems now everybody with a name who fights is a general from the Red Cliff movie. Varric should focus more on the drama and less in the choreographies.

[DragonRageGT]

Quick bumping in...

All Elves in any games, including Biowares, are known for extra dexterity. My AA always starts with 19pts in NWN! LotR is not different. Elves can see a mile away, etc, etc. But I really just wanted to say that Viggo trained so hard and with such passion that he became a real master swordsman and you don't see CGI in his moves. That's he's doing it with a real big heavy sword. It's all there in the E.E. DVD bonus material.

Modifié par RageGT, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:07 .

[In Exile]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I said coherent to the world. Berserk does explain why Gutts can fight like he does with a 10-20 kilo sword.

The answer is that Guts is a freaking bad-ass. That's it. That's the only explanation the game gives you. Then later, you have magical armour.

If you're going to accept the character is freaking bad-ass as justification - then you have your DA2 justification. Hawke + co are freaking bad-ass.

Elves could walk on fresh snow and had indeed excellent sense of balance (crossing the river?), but we are going off-topic. DA2 is still in Thedas, and it seems now everybody with a name who fights is a general from the Red Cliff movie. Varric should focus more on the drama and less in the choreographies.

... People can walk on fresh snow. Everyone who fights is a freaking bad-ass, like Guts, or Griffin, or Caska, instead of the random mooks who Guts, or Griffin, or Caska kill.

Seriously. If you're willing to shallow what Berserk is shoving you, not granting what DA2 is pedling is silly.

RageGT wrote...
All Elves in any games, including Biowares,
are known for extra dexterity. My AA always starts with 19pts in NWN!
LotR is not different. Elves can see a mile away, etc, etc. But I really
just wanted to say that Viggo trained so hard and with such passion
that he became a real master swordsman and you don't see CGI in his
moves. That's he's doing it with a real big heavy sword. It's all there
in the E.E. DVD bonus material.

More dexterous =! reality breaking acrobatics.

And the kind of swordfighting you see Aragon engage in is acrobatic stunt-fighting, designed to look flashy.  

Modifié par In Exile, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:21 .

[Nerevar-as]

No, if Berserk hadn´t included the flashbacks about Gutt´s past, I wouldn´t have shallowed it. In fact, I was considering dropping the comic before the story jumped back to the beginning. It had been only a pointless carnage so far until the Hand appeared. With DA2, I´ll only be getting it because I liked the writing of the first.

[In Exile]

Nerevar-as wrote...

No, if Berserk hadn´t included the flashbacks about Gutt´s past, I wouldn´t have shallowed it. In fact, I was considering dropping the comic before the story jumped back to the beginning. It had been only a pointless carnage so far until the Hand appeared. With DA2, I´ll only be getting it because I liked the writing of the first.

.... How does the flashback help at all? That has Gutts doing all sort of outrageous things as a ''normal'' human like killing 100 men protecting Caska alone and killing an Apostole monstrosity all on his own. Then he losses his arm (which gets replaced with a magic magnetic arm that has a cannon inside of it) and still manages to duke it out with an incredible all-powerful demon.

[nightcobra]

In Exile wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

No, if Berserk hadn´t included the flashbacks about Gutt´s past, I wouldn´t have shallowed it. In fact, I was considering dropping the comic before the story jumped back to the beginning. It had been only a pointless carnage so far until the Hand appeared. With DA2, I´ll only be getting it because I liked the writing of the first.

.... How does the flashback help at all? That has Gutts doing all sort of outrageous things as a ''normal'' human like killing 100 men protecting Caska alone and killing an Apostole monstrosity all on his own. Then he losses his arm (which gets replaced with a magic magnetic arm that has a cannon inside of it) and still manages to duke it out with an incredible all-powerful demon.

well, to me i'd love if hawke can be just as badass as guts, big swords cannon arms and all. but that's just me:whistle:

[tmp7704]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

well, to me i'd love if hawke can be just as badass as guts, big swords cannon arms and all. but that's just me:whistle:

Personally, i'd rather he wasn't -- watching a "freaking badass" kill regular people is about as exciting as watching a grownup mug preschoolers out of their lunch money. In either case the opponents have no chance of winning, so what is it i'm supposed to be impressed about?

[Wulfram]

RageGT wrote...

Quick bumping in...

All Elves in any games, including Biowares, are known for extra dexterity. My AA always starts with 19pts in NWN! LotR is not different. Elves can see a mile away, etc, etc. But I really just wanted to say that Viggo trained so hard and with such passion that he became a real master swordsman and you don't see CGI in his moves. That's he's doing it with a real big heavy sword. It's all there in the E.E. DVD bonus material.

Origins Elves have less dexterity than Humans and Dwarves.

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
Personally, i'd rather he wasn't -- watching a "freaking badass" kill regular people is about as exciting as watching a grownup mug preschoolers out of their lunch money. In either case the opponents have no chance of winning, so what is it i'm supposed to be impressed about?

The answer is the epic feel. Not for killing mooks, but for removing the mooks to have much dramatic encounters. If Bioware is going the slaughter hundreds route, I agree that isn't fun.

[nightcobra]

tmp7704 wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

well, to me i'd love if hawke can be just as badass as guts, big swords cannon arms and all. but that's just me:whistle:

Personally, i'd rather he wasn't -- watching a "freaking badass" kill regular people is about as exciting as watching a grownup mug preschoolers out of their lunch money. In either case the opponents have no chance of winning, so what is it i'm supposed to be impressed about?

who said i wanted hawke just beating regular people, i mean pride demons, highdragons, flesh golems, giant golems, qunari broodmothers, the kind of foes that can give a "freaking badass" a run for his/her money.

[Nerevar-as]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

who said i wanted hawke just beating regular people, i mean pride demons, highdragons, flesh golems, giant golems, qunari broodmothers, the kind of foes that can give a "freaking badass" a run for his/her money.

The Destiny teaser included the monster from GoA DLC (flesh golem?), so there´s something. Although if it has not the undead backup it´s not that much of a challenge.

[tmp7704]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

who said i wanted hawke just beating regular people, i mean pride demons, highdragons, flesh golems, giant golems, qunari broodmothers, the kind of foes that can give a "freaking badass" a run for his/her money.

We both know there's going to be lot of regular people as enemies, though. Even the video in this very thread features them and nothing else. And so do for this matter pretty much all screenshots released so far.

(i include qunari in the "regular people" category here because well, they are "people" just bigger. and have cannons on ships)

Modifié par tmp7704, 19 décembre 2010 - 04:36 .

[Rakumn]

I'm speachless! I had some doubts about gameplay, and was tempted to just get the 360 version, but this look amazing!

[errant_knight]

I find roleplaying much more interesting if I'm playing a normal person with flaws and failures than a giant 'badass' swinging a huge sword like it was a toothpick.

[nightcobra]

tmp7704 wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

who said i wanted hawke just beating regular people, i mean pride demons, highdragons, flesh golems, giant golems, qunari broodmothers, the kind of foes that can give a "freaking badass" a run for his/her money.

We both know there's going to be lot of regular people as enemies, though. Even the video in this very thread features them and nothing else. And so do for this matter pretty much all screenshots released so far.

(i include qunari in the "regular people" category here because well, they are "people" just bigger. and have cannons on ships)

to be fair i wouldn't be expecting huge monsters running rampant inside kirkwall, heck we haven't even seen any of the other locations outside kirkwall except the blightlands but i'm not suggesting the whole game happens inside kirkwall.

[soteria]

FF wasn't on in the DA:O gameplay vids either, I believe, or at least the team was highly overpowered. Bioware does this to show of the gameplay without a) embarassing whoever is playing and to avoid constant reloads and repeats.

Perhaps unsurpisingly, I don't consider either of those acceptable reasons. In the first case, they ought to be masters at their own game, and in the second, well, that's just laziness.

[tmp7704]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

to be fair i wouldn't be expecting huge monsters running rampant inside kirkwall, heck we haven't even seen any of the other locations outside kirkwall except the blightlands but i'm not suggesting the whole game happens inside kirkwall.

Yeah, i expect to see some other locations and not-so-ordinary creatures present as well (for one thing there's this elf pseudo-dragon thing in the bestiary on the game page, which made the first appearance in the Witch Hunt) But still, a large chunk of game will probably involve dealing with smaller and more mundane enemies, and for these the over-the-top style... ah well.

[JamieCOTC]

PC Gameplay!!! Thank you for posting that, BW. Much appreciated. I loved the tactical mode in this, very similar to DA:O. Also, might I add, this is "top down" enough for me. Color me pretty much sold on the combat.

[In Exile]

soteria wrote...
Perhaps unsurpisingly, I don't consider either of those acceptable reasons. In the first case, they ought to be masters at their own game, and in the second, well, that's just laziness.

Even if they are good game designers, the might be bad gamers. We don't know that. As for the second, that is for the sake of the aesthetic. They want to show content and feel, not difficutly.

errant_knight wrote...

I find roleplaying much more
interesting if I'm playing a normal person with flaws and failures than a
giant 'badass' swinging a huge sword like it was a toothpick.

I don't think a combat oriented game can cater to a non-badass. Dragon Age certainly didn't cater to this. Every character was an elite.

[_Dejanus]

JohnEpler wrote...

Let's cut out the 'Americans like THIS and Europeans like THIS' right now. We are a rich and varied group from all over the world, both in the studio and on our forums. If people feel like stereotyping each other based on where they're from, they won't be welcome on these forums any longer.

Rich?

HEY EVERYBODY,  JOHN EPLER DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE POOR!

[tmp7704]

_Dejanus wrote...

HEY EVERYBODY,  JOHN EPLER DISCRIMINATES AGAINST THE POOR!

+4 renegade points.

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

I don't think a combat oriented game can cater to a non-badass. Dragon Age certainly didn't cater to this. Every character was an elite.

Not really in terms of mechanics -- i think the attributes/skills etc weren't much if any different from what was granted the NPCs of matching rank i.e. the yellow con enemies. The elite in comparison would be the orange con people... so companions were above the average, but not exactly top of the food chain.