1012 réponses à ce sujet

[Saint Joel]

That video is whate very buddie and there mom been asking to see for months now. We see it look great, now if your mad your nitpicking it to death.

Modifié par Saint Joel, 19 décembre 2010 - 05:22 .

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
Not really in terms of mechanics -- i think the attributes/skills etc weren't much if any different from what was granted the NPCs of matching rank i.e. the yellow con enemies. The elite in comparison would be the orange con people... so companions were above the average, but not exactly top of the food chain.

In terms of the lore, you were a absolutely above peak. That's why you were chosen to be a Warden. There was no room for you not being brilliant compared to your enemies.

Whatever the gameplay did, that's just story/gameplay segregation.

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

In terms of the lore, you were a absolutely above peak. That's why you were chosen to be a Warden. There was no room for you not being brilliant compared to your enemies.

Ah if you limit it to the player then yes. Although actually i'm not sure if --in part at least-- you weren't supposed to be above peak as the result of taking in the taint, enhancing your natural abilities. When it comes to the recruitment Duncan appears to be looking for gifted individuals yes, but he's very much in position where's "beggars can't be choosers", with very limited numbers of the wardens available in Ferelden and whatnot.

[nightcobra]

tmp7704 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

In terms of the lore, you were a absolutely above peak. That's why you were chosen to be a Warden. There was no room for you not being brilliant compared to your enemies.

Ah if you limit it to the player then yes. Although actually i'm not sure if --in part at least-- you weren't supposed to be above peak as the result of taking in the taint, enhancing your natural abilities. When it comes to the recruitment Duncan appears to be looking for gifted individuals yes, but he's very much in position where's "beggars can't be choosers", with very limited numbers of the wardens available in Ferelden and whatnot.

though if that were the case, i think duncan would be actually looking for more candidates instead of 3 people.
perhaps it's a grey warden tradition to just recruiting the best of the best, or perhaps it has more to with the person who does the choosing.

[tmp7704]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

though if that were the case, i think duncan would be actually looking for more candidates instead of 3 people.
perhaps it's a grey warden tradition to just recruiting the best of the best, or perhaps it has more to with the person who does the choosing.

It's possible, but then one of candidates he did recruit is a rogue who isn't even that good at his job -- tried to rob Duncan, failed and then failed again in attempt to get away. But he really wants to be a warden so he's included.

Also the human noble origin handles it rather weird -- in the end how Duncan words it make it seem like at that point he's pretty much after any warm body to fill a roster, you just happen to be what's still available. Granted, the player may feel at that point they deserve it because they've beaten a few mooks with help of mother and the dog but, well.

[nightcobra]

tmp7704 wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

though if that were the case, i think duncan would be actually looking for more candidates instead of 3 people.
perhaps it's a grey warden tradition to just recruiting the best of the best, or perhaps it has more to with the person who does the choosing.

It's possible, but then one of candidates he did recruit is a rogue who isn't even that good at his job -- tried to rob Duncan, failed and then failed again in attempt to get away. But he really wants to be a warden so he's included.

Also the human noble origin handles it rather weird -- in the end how Duncan words it make it seem like at that point he's pretty much after any warm body to fill a roster, you just happen to be what's still available. Granted, the player may feel at that point they deserve it because they've beaten a few mooks with help of mother and the dog but, well.

the warden selection system is weird to say the least.

[lunarknightmage]

don't you know..........Duncan was at the Cousland estate to recruit........DOG!!

why else would Duncan want to take your war hound with him while you explored Ostagar and ventured into the Wilds........

Duncan was secretly training Dog to be a Warden!!

Modifié par lunarknightmage, 19 décembre 2010 - 05:59 .

[Nerevar-as]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

In terms of the lore, you were a absolutely above peak. That's why you were chosen to be a Warden. There was no room for you not being brilliant compared to your enemies.

Ah if you limit it to the player then yes. Although actually i'm not sure if --in part at least-- you weren't supposed to be above peak as the result of taking in the taint, enhancing your natural abilities. When it comes to the recruitment Duncan appears to be looking for gifted individuals yes, but he's very much in position where's "beggars can't be choosers", with very limited numbers of the wardens available in Ferelden and whatnot.

though if that were the case, i think duncan would be actually looking for more candidates instead of 3 people.
perhaps it's a grey warden tradition to just recruiting the best of the best, or perhaps it has more to with the person who does the choosing.

Duncan clearly recruits people he thinks have a chance of surviving. While it isn´t 100% correct, it prevents unnecessary deaths. Unless you used Avernus´s research, the only comment about taint enhancing properties I remember was Morrigan theory it made Wardens better in the sack.

I think level scaling usually prevents a PC not being a badass. When 9 out of 10 fights are against enemies in your relative rank it´s hard for the character not to feel overpowered.

[tmp7704]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Unless you used Avernus´s research, the only comment about taint enhancing properties I remember was Morrigan theory it made Wardens better in the sack.

I mostly take that from their history -- according to Duncan the humanity (including dwarves and elves) was getting rather hopelessly overran by the Darkspawn during the first Blight, and it was only the desperate measure that's some people converting into wardens that turned the tide. This would imply the wardens somehow made better troops, and i don't think just being able to sense darkspawn would be enough of an advantage to allow that.

There's also this thing about increased need for food and shortened lifespan. This may be just because the body is trying to fight the taint, but it could also imply something like accelerated metabolism, or whatever.

Modifié par tmp7704, 19 décembre 2010 - 06:07 .

[Crimson Invictus]

Nerevar-as wrote...
the only comment about taint enhancing properties I remember was Morrigan theory it made Wardens better in the sack.

She said she didn't know if that was the taint or natural ability but liked to think it was a little of both, if I recall.

[Nerevar-as]

tmp7704 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Unless you used Avernus´s research, the only comment about taint enhancing properties I remember was Morrigan theory it made Wardens better in the sack.

I mostly take that from their history -- according to Duncan the humanity (including dwarves and elves) was getting rather hopelessly overran by the Darkspawn during the first Blight, and it was only the desperate measure that's some people converting into wardens that turned the tide. This would imply the wardens somehow made better troops, and i don't think just being able to sense darkspawn would be enough of an advantage to allow that.

There's also this thing about increased need for food and shortened lifespan. This may be just because the body is trying to fight the taint, but it could also imply something like accelerated metabolism, or whatever.

It´s a possibility, but there´s no in game lore that points that way (so far). An old Warden becomes a ghoul if not killed first, not because of fast aging. The only thing I remember made them more suitable was the DS sense and being the only ones who can prevent the Archdemon from jumping bodies. The latter at the cost of the Warden´s soul.

[tmp7704]

Nerevar-as wrote...

the only ones who can prevent the Archdemon from jumping bodies.

Hmm right, this actually could be enough. The archdemon otherwise constantly respawning would definitely be the major problem when it comes to putting end to the Blight, so remvoing that through creation of the wardens... yeah, could see it work.

[soteria]

In Exile wrote...

Even if they are good game designers, the might be bad gamers. We don't know that. As for the second, that is for the sake of the aesthetic. They want to show content and feel, not difficutly.

I don't think they're *bad*, but I do think they tend to have serious blind spots. You design a game expecting people to play a certain way, and the players come along and blindside you with some new approach that breaks the system. To be fair, Blizzard has the same problem. And I understand the desire to post a video with a "clean" kill--heck, I do exactly the same thing--but I don't think that's an excuse to lower the difficulty (either with the slider or with an OP group).

Again I want to be clear that I don't feel particularly critical of the video, but intentionally making the game easier to produce a gameplay video, you know, to show off how the game plays, seems like backward logic to me. You can have a video that shows tactical vs action combat on the harder setting, too. I'd even argue that it makes for a better demonstration, especically since managing FF is probably going to be a very significant part of playing tactically.

[The Bard From Hell]

In one the leaked videos of console gameplay the game seemed pretty hard: Aveline and Hawke dead, Bethany surrounded by a dozen Hurlocks and a Ogre, having to run and barely attacking at all. So I don't think the game is gonna go easy on you just because you're smashing buttons like there's no tomorrow.

[The Drwal]

Nerevar-as wrote...
...but BW thinks the more exagerated the better it´ll sell. While I don´t want the game to fail, it´s something I´d like to see proved wrong.

And this is untrue? Just look what people call a "good" game or movie... Not everyone of course... But they don't discuss such problems, just because they think it's not a problem at all. Good for them. Good for producers. Bad for the rest of the world.

[Qset]

In Exile wrote...

adembroski11 wrote...
Don't take this wrong, I'm thrilled with what I've seen from DAII and I'm looking forward too it, but I'm interested to know... why is the choice always made to go the God of War route rather than the LotR route? Well, LotR is probably more extreme than I am actually thinking of.

DA2 did go the LoTR route. The movie route, where Legolas is surfboarding on elephants, and Aragon and Glimli murder orcs by the tens or hundreds alone.

My guess is he meant the LotR bookworld and not the LotR movieworld, two very different beasts

 I enjoyed both and can see that the movie version worked well in a movie setting...

 I do like the surfboard image though

[Cyberfrog81]

Having watched the video a few more times... I'm not "feeling it". The game doesn't seem all that much fun, or "awesome". It might be very good, I'm certainly hoping it is, but... still not sold. I kind of hope something more interesting will come out, or I probably will be able to resist pre-ordering, bonuses be damned.

[macrocarl]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

Imma play both tactical and actiony! Depends how much beer I'm drinking.
I love that the video was filmed in Mike Laidlaw's Mind Cave.

Slightly to my left sits the remnant of a creature too unknowable to even contemplate, and above me?

Above me lies forever.

I learn sumptin new every day! And here I thought forever was exclusively relagated to the Mike Laidlaw's Feelings Grotto

[Malanek]

I'm a bit torn to be honest. On one hand I like the fact that combat has been sped up and that rogues and warriors have more abilities. What I am unsure about is how tactical the game will be. You need to go back and look at friendly fire, in these RPGs it is highly important to make the game tactical. The key to making a game tactical is giving the player options, some which work and others that don't. When friendly fire is on, lots of your options don't work. With it off I have a bad feeling you will just go through the game spamming your most powerful abilities. There needs to be more depth to combat than that. I will have to play the game (which I still intend to) to be sure though.

[1varangian]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I want to know why Hawke and Friends seem infatuated with twirling their weapons at every possible instance as soon as they finish a strike.....seriously, I'd love to have some mage go Indiana Jones on Hawke and Friends when they're busy twirling their sword/staffs....ugh.

The shuffle has been replaced with the twirl.

If you elect to control a single character, you will see that they go through a selection of moves when they attack. The moves flow into one another creating a visual flow for the way the character attacks. In testing, we found that if the pace of each hit was identical, it would create a sense of repetition, and disengagement in the people playing. "I hit, I hit, I hit, I hit, I hit, I hit..." and so on. Looking at how to break that up, we elected to create moves that took slightly longer to execute (via flourish, twirl or what have you), but that inflict higher than usual damage. Doing so creates more visual variety, gives the combat a sense of pacing that was absent in origins and generally give the characters more personality than just going "I swing my sword left. Now I swing my sword right."

If you do not like that personality, there's little I can do about it, and even less I would want to do about it. As with so many things, it's largely an aesthetic choice, and when you make an aesthetic choice there will always be people who do not match your opinion, which is why it is aesthetic, and not emperical. I'm prepared to live with a few complaints about twirl if it results in an experience that has tested better in terms of overall feel and pacing any day. To my mind, the important part is that we MADE a choice, backed it up with data and built a game that works well with that choice.

I can see the reasoning behind it and fully support the new pacing and aesthetics approach.

It's just the flair animations themselves that are a little embarassing to watch. The extra twirls and spins are just full of nothing - they make the characters hilarious more than showcase their impressive fighting abilities. They have more anime flair than real combat skill factor.

Instead of twirling their blades nonsensically, they could have made quick fake attacks or position themselves to launch an attack.

Modifié par 1varangian, 19 décembre 2010 - 09:58 .

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
Ah if you limit it to the player then yes. Although actually i'm not sure if --in part at least-- you weren't supposed to be above peak as the result of taking in the taint, enhancing your natural abilities. When it comes to the recruitment Duncan appears to be looking for gifted individuals yes, but he's very much in position where's "beggars can't be choosers", with very limited numbers of the wardens available in Ferelden and whatnot.

No. The taint doesn't improve your abilities at all. Avernus found a way to use the taint, but that's unique, and he event points out the Warden order as a whole does not tap into the power of the taint.

Duncan is certainly in a position that beggars cannot be choosers, but at the same time, he seems to choose quite highly. Jory distinguished himself in tournaments, and Daveth seems got the drop on Duncan, which is in itself a significant achievement.

If you go by origin, the City Elf was trained by another elf who Duncan thought was talented enough to be a Warden (risking circularity, I know). The common dwarf wins in the proving against the best of the warrior cast. The human noble is supposedly the best of his line - peerless as a warrior or otherwise. The mage is an incredible talent.

The only question marks are the dalish elf (who at least partially flukes into the whole thing) and the noble dwarf (who does potentially distinguish in the proving).

tmp7704 wrote...
I mostly take that from their history --
according to Duncan the humanity (including dwarves and elves) was
getting rather hopelessly overran by the Darkspawn during the first
Blight, and it was only the desperate measure that's some people
converting into wardens that turned the tide. This would imply the
wardens somehow made better troops, and i don't think just being able to
sense darkspawn would be enough of an advantage to allow that.

There's
also this thing about increased need for food and shortened lifespan.
This may be just because the body is trying to fight the taint, but it
could also imply something like accelerated metabolism, or
whatever.

We know that's partially BS (re the first blight). Dumant could and was slain many times - he was just immortal with the darkspawn. The reputation of the Wardens is that they are bad-ass, but that may well tie into what it takes to survive the tait .

We need the Wardens to kill the archdemon. That doesn't mean the taint gives them superpowers.

[1varangian]

TMZuk wrote...

There's nothing dark and gritty about this gameplay. It is simply looking like a japanese console-game, where immersion and any attempt of creating something believable is out the window.

This was already a problem in Origins because of the PC immortality and otherworldly health/mana regeneration and the carefree playstyle those design decisions encouraged. Origins was sort of on the edge with the believability for me. But DA2, from what we've seen, shamelessly discards all credibility in an attempt to be hot rod awesome.

I just feel the fantastic work of the writers is lessened because of the fast-food approach to gameplay. Because you no longer believe the characters or get immersed in the story.

Modifié par 1varangian, 19 décembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[Nerevar-as]

Do we know if Dumat "reincarnated" kept the possessed body or could shapeshift back to dragon?

[The Drwal]

Ok, so who else thinks Flemeth is an Old God? ;]

[Mike Laidlaw]

adembroski11 wrote...

I will, however, say that the visual effects on sustained spells are very distracting... I'm not fond of conversing with someone in a cut scene and have him pay absolutely no heed to the fact that I'm standing on a glowing red pentagram and appear to be being attacked by a swarm of glowing purple butterflies.

No longer a problem. The effects are suppressed during explore and combat. I prefer to think of it as the mages "firing up" their buffs and auras automatically at the start of combat, since that's exactly what it looks like.

Rock armor...mmmm. There's nothing better at the start of a fight. It's...quite a bit cooler than just coloring you grey, these days.