106 réponses à ce sujet

[xares23x]

in the words of Garrus "they already killed you once and all that did was ****** you off'"

[Iakus]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

BioWare simply rebooted Shepard. Chances are it's going to happen again in ME3, except not by death.

Stop it, you're depressing me

But seriously, much as I'd love for Shepard to have simply been badly injured/in a coma for two years, I see little evidence that this was the case.  The missing helmet on the planet's surface, the perforated suit, "meat and tubes" the notes at Lazarus stationand all that. 

It's why I really hope that some sort of DLC or ME 3 plotline will go deeper into what the Lazarus Project ultimately was.  I could live with Shepard being an AI cyborg that thinks it's Shepard.  I can deal with "mostly dead"  What I can't deal with is the idea that the final step of the Lazarus process involved tesla coils, Shepard's body in a lightning storm, and Miranda cackling while shouting "It's alive!  it's aliiiiiive!"

[Malanek]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
So Shepard could always be hacked by an AI? How?

When was Shepard hacked by an AI in ME2?

[SilverEST]

It was a magical wizard A.I that rode a flaming space shark.

[oldag07]

Depends on your definition of death and dying. . .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
How do you know that?

Who says it wasn't removed by the Blue Suns recovery team, before putting Shepard into that stasis pod and applying conservative treatment?

Alrite, fine then; it wasn't a big point either way.  Even if she had the helmet on the entire time it doesn't fix any of the problems I have with BioWare's presentation.
She could have been wrapped in bubble wrap with an automatic parachute and landed on soft foam padding off camera; BioWare still insists rather vehemently that she was very dead.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Malanek999 wrote...
When was Shepard hacked by an AI in ME2?

Overlord.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
So Shepard could always be hacked by an AI? How?

Shepards armor is something along the lines of a powered exoskeleton with shield generators and all sort of medical and strength enhancing technology incorporated into it. The AI probably hacked that and just long enough to get Shepard out of the room. And cybernetic enchancements are supposedly pretty common even among those not critically injured like Shepard was. His skin isn't going to fall off and reveal a Saren-like reaper skeleton thing.

And , anyways, if you believe in empty words that's fine, but I don't.  Yes, Miranda "says" the Lazarus Project fails if Shepard is not revived exactly as she was. Yes, Jacob "says" that "you're still you, just with a few more pieces", but those are just empty words.
Especially when "my Shepard" is walking around being brain-hacked. And, again, she lost her helmet on planet re-entry; the implications are absurd. >_<

When there is nothing to indicate otherwise I will take their word. If the project failed TIM would have have moved onto a different plan.

[SilverEST]

Oh, you know, the entire part about landing on the planet and how well placed every piece of the ship is, is absurd - the latter anyway. Obviously it was entirely designed with dramatic effect in mind, not scientific validity(lotsa "ghosts" down thar...).

Modifié par SilverEST, 16 décembre 2010 - 09:02 .

[Rebel42]

Shepard was dead. There was no chance of him surviving. cerberus resurrected him, how ... I have no idea. But it basically was a plot device to startShepard at level 1 again and get him involved with Cerberus

[Pwner1323]

iakus wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

BioWare simply rebooted Shepard. Chances are it's going to happen again in ME3, except not by death.

Stop it, you're depressing me

But seriously, much as I'd love for Shepard to have simply been badly injured/in a coma for two years, I see little evidence that this was the case.  The missing helmet on the planet's surface, the perforated suit, "meat and tubes" the notes at Lazarus stationand all that. 

It's why I really hope that some sort of DLC or ME 3 plotline will go deeper into what the Lazarus Project ultimately was.  I could live with Shepard being an AI cyborg that thinks it's Shepard.  I can deal with "mostly dead"  What I can't deal with is the idea that the final step of the Lazarus process involved tesla coils, Shepard's body in a lightning storm, and Miranda cackling while shouting "It's alive!  it's aliiiiiive!"

I must see a comic of this, with Shepard waking up all casual and saying "what's up? Nice ******".

[Alienmorph]

Cerebral dead and devastated body. He/she was in a vegetative coma or so, I always thinked that. Resurrecting a corpse with some implants sounded too odd.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ReconTeam wrote...
Shepards armor is something along the lines of a powered exoskeleton with shield generators and all sort of medical and strength enhancing technology incorporated into it. The AI probably hacked that and just long enough to get Shepard out of the room. And cybernetic enchancements are supposedly pretty common even among those not critically injured like Shepard was. His skin isn't going to fall off and reveal a Saren-like reaper skeleton thing.

I'm pretty sure Shepard's armor does not have a control interface that can actually move the limbs on its own... Having certain motors or mechanisms that can enhance movement or increase force is one thing; having something that can be flat-out controlled by an AI is something else. (and overlord makes it clear that it is affect Shepard's brain and not just the armor)

And, yes, soldiers get implants and what-have-you; the Soldier class even has eye implants or whatever that allows for the time dilation thing. That's not the same situation either. Those are like artificial limbs; people with artificial limbs are still the same people.

I'm more concerned with the brain. BioWare does not imply that the brain is intact, especially with its comments about cell degeneration and the repeated assurance that she was dead.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 16 décembre 2010 - 09:08 .

[Malanek]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...
When was Shepard hacked by an AI in ME2?

Overlord.

We are moving off topic and this has nothing to do with whether Shepard dies or any implants Cerberus has installed (for the record I think he was clinically dead and then revived) but I do not believe Shepard was "hacked". David did not have control of Shepard nor was he an AI, David Archer was organic. Shepard was pulled into into some virtual neural network of Davids perception. Sort of like the prothean beacons or real life hypnosis although Bioware made no did not try to explain the science behind this.

Modifié par Malanek999, 16 décembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
How do you know that?

Who says it wasn't removed by the Blue Suns recovery team, before putting Shepard into that stasis pod and applying conservative treatment?

Alrite, fine then; it wasn't a big point either way.  Even if she had the helmet on the entire time it doesn't fix any of the problems I have with BioWare's presentation.
She could have been wrapped in bubble wrap with an automatic parachute and landed on soft foam padding off camera;

Or in the Mako.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
BioWare still insists rather vehemently that she was very dead.

Where?

Shepard was officially pronounced dead. That's as plot device 3000 years old.
Some characters say Shepard was dead.
Some that Sheaprd was "mostly dead".
Some aren't really sure.
And the only guy who could possibly give a detailed account was a traitor not meant to live long enough to do so.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...
When was Shepard hacked by an AI in ME2?

Overlord.

Silly piece of pew-pew stuff, with one plothole bigger than another. I hope Mac Walters feels ashamed of it.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 décembre 2010 - 09:11 .

[Pwner1323]

Alienmorph wrote...

Cerebral dead and devastated body. He/she was in a vegetative coma or so, I always thinked that. Resurrecting a corpse with some implants sounded too odd.

What if Cerberus used Husk tech to reanimate his body and the sphere that Shepard touched in Aletania as a means to bring his memories back? I thought about doing a fanfic on it but college and lazyness got the better of me. 

[Pwner1323]

The one who says that Shepard is "mostly dead" is.... himself. The one who says he's undead.... is also himself?



Contradicting himself like this specially when he doesn't know what the hell they did to him only makes things harder to understand, if it can be understood at all.

[Badpie]

Shepard was dead. Bioware said it, the characters in game said it, even at one point describing it as "meat and tubes."



SHEPARD WAS DEAD. End of discussion.



DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Shepard died and was brought back to life by Cerberus magic despite all of the impossibilities involved.
or
Shepard was only critically injured, in a coma, and "rebuilt" by Cerberus.

There are plenty of holes in either theory, but that whole plot point wasn't thought out well to begin with. In my opinion it is a "move along, nothing to see here" sort of thing.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 16 décembre 2010 - 09:17 .

[SilverEST]

ReconTeam wrote...

Shepard died and was brought back to life by Cerberus magic despite all of the impossibilities involved.
Or
Shepard was only critically injured, in a coma, and "rebuilt" by Cerberus.

There are plenty of holes in either theory, but that whole plot point wasn't thought out well to begin with. In my opinion it is a "move along, nothing to see here" sort of thing.

QFT. About the best that can be said on the subject.

[Pwner1323]

Because bringing back dead people is totally rational. What happened to me thinking ME was realistic? Nevermind.



I sometimes think BW could have done better. The Force Unleashed 2 did this and it made no sense there, and neither does it here.



Killing people and bringing them back is very hard to do "right".

[Zulu_DFA]

Badpie wrote...

Shepard was dead. Bioware said it, the characters in game said it, even at one point describing it as "meat and tubes."

SHEPARD WAS DEAD. End of discussion.

DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD.

How much dead is that?

[Badpie]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Shepard was dead. Bioware said it, the characters in game said it, even at one point describing it as "meat and tubes."

SHEPARD WAS DEAD. End of discussion.

DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD.

How much dead is that?

MILES OF DEAD!!! 

[SilverEST]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Killing people and bringing them back is very hard to do "right".

BioWare should take hints from "The Bold and the Beautiful". Honestly, most characters die and come back there. It's like a society of zombies that don't prey on your flesh but on your...pride? Fashion sense? This makes my head hurt. Dx

[Iakus]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Because bringing back dead people is totally rational. What happened to me thinking ME was realistic? Nevermind.

I sometimes think BW could have done better. The Force Unleashed 2 did this and it made no sense there, and neither does it here.

Killing people and bringing them back is very hard to do "right".

Very true, which is what makes me wonder why Bioware ran with the idea to begin with.  There are several other, more logical ways to isolate Shepard from his/her old life.

This better tie into something big they have planned.