55380 réponses à ce sujet

[UltiPup]

Only the depraved treat Fenris like that. Even if you didn't care for his views, that is a terrible thing.

[mellifera]

The run I used to test that scene out (immediate reload, lol) was also romancing him on the friendship path. What a betrayal ._. Even a my full rivalry character who didn't like him much, he couldn't do it. I don't want to play a character who would do something like that anyway.

[Reinara]

yukidama wrote...

Thestral wrote...

Gilsa wrote...
LOL. I got a kick out of Fenris shutting Zevran down when he tried to offer a personal reward. I didn't have Isabela in the group so no idea if her dialogue would override anything. Too tedious of a boss fight to rotate though all the companion reactions.

Does anyone have a video of this? :] Btw, can Hawke sleep with Zevran?

Ooh and if I remember right, someone said if you betray Fenris ( ;o;) you get a letter from his master about how he's more docile or something? Does anyone have a copy of what it says? :]

...dear god, I never bat an eyelash when I choose the horrible options in the  DA games, but that letter almost makes me feel as much as a scum of the earth as when I betrayed Shianni to Vaughn in the City Elf Origin (and never finished that playthrough lol). I think that and this will be two "evil" choices I'll never do

[Bluumberry]

UltiPup wrote...

Only the depraved treat Fenris like that. Even if you didn't care for his views, that is a terrible thing.

Makes me wonder how anyone can romance Anders when you hear his reaction to betraying Fenris...

[fighterchick]

Reinara wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Thestral wrote...

Gilsa wrote...
LOL. I got a kick out of Fenris shutting Zevran down when he tried to offer a personal reward. I didn't have Isabela in the group so no idea if her dialogue would override anything. Too tedious of a boss fight to rotate though all the companion reactions.

Does anyone have a video of this? :] Btw, can Hawke sleep with Zevran?

Ooh and if I remember right, someone said if you betray Fenris ( ;o;) you get a letter from his master about how he's more docile or something? Does anyone have a copy of what it says? :]

...dear god, I never bat an eyelash when I choose the horrible options in the  DA games, but that letter almost makes me feel as much as a scum of the earth as when I betrayed Shianni to Vaughn in the City Elf Origin (and never finished that playthrough lol). I think that and this will be two "evil" choices I'll never do

Now that I've read that lovely note, it's time to go watch Danarius' death about a dozen times on youtube.  XD  I agree about those two choices though.  I could never just leave Shiannia with Vaughn, though I've always wondered how that affected dialogue when you came back to the alienage later in the game.  And I can't give Fenris to Danarius either.  I did it once, then reloaded and I shant do it again.  It's too evil!  

[fighterchick]

Bluumberry wrote...

UltiPup wrote...

Only the depraved treat Fenris like that. Even if you didn't care for his views, that is a terrible thing.

Makes me wonder how anyone can romance Anders when you hear his reaction to betraying Fenris...

It's worth romancing Anders, for me, just for my Hawke to break up with him right after he tells her he loves her.  She tells him he wasn't very good in bed, it just makes me laugh so hard after what he says to Fenris.  I'm an evil, evil person to Anders.  I do so love the scene where you can kill him.  

[ThatDancingTurian]

That letter is appalling. I want to kill Danarius again just from reading it.

[Bluumberry]

fighterchicks wrote...

Bluumberry wrote...

UltiPup wrote...

Only the depraved treat Fenris like that. Even if you didn't care for his views, that is a terrible thing.

Makes me wonder how anyone can romance Anders when you hear his reaction to betraying Fenris...

It's worth romancing Anders, for me, just for my Hawke to break up with him right after he tells her he loves her.  She tells him he wasn't very good in bed, it just makes me laugh so hard after what he says to Fenris.  I'm an evil, evil person to Anders.  I do so love the scene where you can kill him.  

Oh this I approve of!

[Reinara]

@blumberry: Haha, I prefer Fenris but actually adore Anders too and I'm sure if the situation were reversed, Fenris would probably wish Anders was made Tranquil or something equally horrible too, so I just consider that it's them hardcore hating and being horrible to each other and... not something Hawke necessarily agree with so. yeah.

@fighterchicks: I tried to finish that playthrough just to see how Shianni and the others react when the Warden returns to the Alienage, but every time I think back to that moment of betrayal and Soris being extremely reluctant about it and trying to get the Warden to reconsider, I feel horrible every time that I couldn't bring myself to continue it haha 8'(

[mellifera]

Heh. The Anders vs Fenris fangirl wars will be fun to watch xD

[Reinara]

It'll be fun to watch so long as no one writes Anders in the Ron the Deatheater troupe type fics........but somehow I don't doubt that will happen eventually.

[empressdots]

What happens to Fenris in the "give him back to Danarius" version of his personal quest is absolutely heartbreaking. Not only is he a more docile, unhappy slave to some Tevinter magister again, but he's also had his memory wiped again, so he can't even ever remember being free. He can't remember what it was like to be free or even that he ran away. He can't remember Hawke or any of the others. That's really depressing.

I once broke up with Zevran after getting him to full approval/romance on a DA:O run just to see what his breakup/leaving the party scene was like (and I reloaded an old save after), but I absolutely can't do that sort of thing with Fenris. The knowledge of what happens to him in that ending is just way too terrible. He goes back to his old life and never has any memory he rebelled or had a few years of freedom.

Modifié par empressdots, 15 mars 2011 - 08:32 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Reinara wrote...

It'll be fun to watch so long as no one writes Anders in the Ron the Deatheater troupe type fics........but somehow I don't doubt that will happen eventually.

Isn't he more a Draco in Leather Pants?

[Reinara]

I'd say he fits both bills depending on which fan you ask. Fenris himself probably fits into the Draco in Leather Pants trope for some of his fans, I'm sure.

[Ex-Paladin]

Reinara wrote...

I'd say he fits both bills depending on which fan you ask. Fenris himself probably fits into the Draco in Leather Pants trope for some of his fans, I'm sure.

Now I'm imagining Fenris in leather pants......

[ThatDancingTurian]

Reinara wrote...

I'd say he fits both bills depending on which fan you ask. Fenris himself probably fits into the Draco in Leather Pants trope for some of his fans, I'm sure.

How so? The Draco in Leather Pants is taking a villainous or highly controversial character and downplaying his flaws, making him an object of attraction in the process. Fenris hasn't done anything truly controversial or villainous, he's just disagreeable. There's no controversy in being an anti-hero. Besides, I revel in his flaws, personally.

Whereas Ron the Death-Eater is deliberately shoe-horning a heroic character into the role of a villain. No shoe-horning required for Anders, considering he is a terrorist abomination. He's hardly the Ron Weasley of DA2.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 15 mars 2011 - 08:50 .

[upsettingshorts]

Rayin Hawke sells him back, because while he may lead others to believe he is a nice person - either because he does nice things (for his own reasons) or simply wants others to think he is, he is not  Fenris represented little to him, he was a sanctimonious anti-mage zealot (he hated zealots, Anders even more) who sat brooding in his mansion all day.

So in the end it wasn't a matter of principle but:

Do nothing for person he dislikes whose views in a time of crisis couldn't be further from his own
or
Anger a Magister of the Tevinter Imperium who probably has friends to keep yet another zealot in Kirkwall

Since Rayin would have served Anders to the Templars on a silver platter for much the same reasons had the game given him the opportunity, the choice was fairly easy.  Doesn't mean he would have been proud of it or read that letter with a smile on his face - much like many other characters in the game put in a position to make difficult, sometimes nasty choices - but chalk it up as yet another sad thing that had to be done.  He was not going to undermine his position by adding to his personal list of enemies for the sake of someone he didn't want anywhere near the current crisis in the first place.

He'd probably keep the letter though.  As a way to keep perspective about himself, and what he's capable of.

Me personally?  I have more empathy than my character does.  Just figure now would be a good time to point that out.  Moving on.

My character thought he could solve the Kirkwall problem and maintain peace because it satisfied his ego to think himself capable of it.  Most decisions he made satisfied his intellectual vanity - including romancing Isabela - to prove he could do better what others failed to accomplish at all.  On issues in the game that were basically just principle or sentiment, he would when given the option defer to companions because he really didn't care much, or have many of his own.  Hence why most people - certainly not Fenris though - in Kirkwall probably think of him as a nice or at the very least reasonable fellow.  When Anders... did what he did... it shattered him emotionally.  If Rayin's ego had been a structure he spent the last seven years building, well, Anders blew that up too.  He failed DA2, and it was great. 

Why post this?  Well, I suppose I thought it would be interesting to describe a character who would sell Fenris back to the Magister not because it was "evil," or simply because they thought the money was good, or was even a mage offended by Fenris' comments - but for other reasons.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 mars 2011 - 09:05 .

[Bluumberry]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Why post this?  Well, I suppose I thought it would be interesting to describe a character who would sell Fenris back to the Magister not because it was "evil," or simply because they thought the money was good, or was even a mage offended by Fenris' comments - but for other reasons.

Maybe, except at that point Hawke has little need for more coin and even as a mage you've seen the atrocities blood mages have done (mother anyone?) and Tevinter is full of blood mages.

I'd slit Danarius' throat just for breathing.

[upsettingshorts]

...which is why my character didn't do it for the coin, wasn't a mage, and didn't care about the fact Danarius was an *******.

Not to sound like a jerk but... did you read the post? I ask because your post reads almost like you're responding to someone else's comments entirely.  Since you responded to the stuff I listed as reasons my character didn't have. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 mars 2011 - 09:09 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anger a Magister of the Tevinter Imperium who probably has friends to keep yet another zealot in Kirkwall

There would be no real problem with angering him. It was clear if you sided with Fenris that either you or Danarius would never have left the building alive.

And well, he seemed to die rather easily. My Hawke has taken on worse things (demons, for one) and won, she isn't afraid of another mage. If anything, killing a powerful Tevinter magister would be beneficial to Hawke's reputation.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 15 mars 2011 - 09:11 .

[Bluumberry]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

...which is why my character didn't do it for the coin, wasn't a mage, and didn't care about the fact Danarius was an ****.

Not to sound like a jerk but... did you read the post? I ask because your post reads almost like you're responding to someone else's comments entirely.  Since you responded to the stuff I listed as reasons my character didn't have. 

I skimmed it because I didn't have time to read the whole thing and those were the things you were talking about in the section I quoted and I missed the "not"?

As to your

He was not going to undermine his position by adding to his personal
list of enemies for the sake of someone he didn't want anywhere near the
current crisis in the first place.

Why recruit him then if your Hawke didn't want him near? You always can tell him to beat it at the start. I find it much more cruel to let someone get close to you and then betray them.

Modifié par Bluumberry, 15 mars 2011 - 09:12 .

[upsettingshorts]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

There would be no real problem with angering him. It was clear if you sided with Fenris that either you or Danarius would never have left the building alive.

Hence the comment about his potential friends.  It's more of a "what do I stand to gain from defending Fenris" question for him than a "what do I have to lose" question.   The answer to the former is "nothing."  The answer to the latter is he could picture Fenris hopping on the mage killing bandwagon and be yet another problem he had to deal with in order to keep the peace.  He may or may not have been right about either of those things, but I can imagine he believed it.

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

And well, he seemed to die rather easily. My Hawke has taken on worse things (demons, for one) and won, she isn't afraid of another mage. If anything, killing a powerful Tevinter magister would be beneficial to Hawke's reputation.

Rayin didn't know that.  Plus all the powerful stuff he fought previously there was a reason for, like - getting rich in the Deep Roads. 

As far as his reputation goes, well that depends on what kind of reputation the character is trying to craft, does it?

Bluumberry wrote...

Why recruit him then if your Hawke didn't want him near? You always can tell him to beat it at the start. I find it much more cruel to let someone get close to you and then betray them.

I think his motivation in doing so was information - he can't know he doesn't want someone near him, let alone in a city that years from now will equpt in revolution - without actually learning about them.  He wants to check the powerful elf out, see what he's capable of and what his plans are, and evaluate a potential ally.  I said he wasn't a very nice guy but I didn't say he jumped to quick conclusions about people.

That being said, he never let Fenris get close to him.  Maxed out rivalry, that.  They were not friends.  Fenris at the "point of sale" even said, "I know we're not friends, but..."

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 mars 2011 - 09:19 .

[TheComfyCat]

Wow, the betrayal of Fenris is a depressing video. Fenris's defeated body language after agreeing to go with Danarius is what really killed me.

Your Hawke sounds a bit like a narcissistic sociopath, Shorts. Heh. I have a hard time RPing characters so far removed from my own feelings, but I can see how it would make for an interesting play through.

And Fenris isn't really that broody. He jokes with some of the characters (not the mages of course...lol), and laughs with a humorous Hawke. Well, okay, maybe he's still rather broody compared... everyone else.

[Reinara]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Reinara wrote...

I'd say he fits both bills depending on which fan you ask. Fenris himself probably fits into the Draco in Leather Pants trope for some of his fans, I'm sure.

How so? The Draco in Leather Pants is taking a villainous or highly controversial character and downplaying his flaws, making him an object of attraction in the process. Fenris hasn't done anything truly controversial or villainous, he's just disagreeable. There's no controversy in being an anti-hero. Besides, I revel in his flaws, personally.

Whereas Ron the Death-Eater is deliberately shoe-horning a heroic character into the role of a villain. No shoe-horning required for Anders, considering he is a terrorist abomination. He's hardly the Ron Weasley of DA2.

I agree and I revel in his flaws as well personally, but what I'm saying is, I don't doubt that somewhere along the lines, there probably will be some people who will try to ignore those flaws of his and romanticize him and probably will focus more on the uhh woobie aspects of him or something. Not to mention that depending on the perspective of other people (like the OP of the "I hate Fenris" thread, for example), some might see his acts and villainous so... in the same way, but with Anders, while I like Anders for all his flaws and I don't think he's necessarily a true "villain" (as I'm sure most of the other  fans in the Anders thread probably do too), there are also probably also people who see him as one, probably along with some other fans who probably think he's just very misguided or something idk. So it's another matter of perspective for the err leatherpants and deatheaterification thing.

But uhh... tl;dr: the gist of my point  is that eventually, because of these different perspective, regardless of how Anders really is, down the line someone will probably write him to be some kind of horrible person who does more heinous things than he actually did, like what I've seen some people do with Loghain in some fics and turning him into a rapist when as far as I recall, he was definitely not that. and if I'm not making much sense, I apologize, I woke up at like 4 AM in my timezone and my brain is nearly dead

[upsettingshorts]

This is off-topic but Anders is both a revolutionary (his goal and mindset) and a terrorist (his methods). Which one ends up being more important depends on perspective.

To bring it back to the topic Fenris, even if he does personally hate mages and want to do more or less the same things to them that cause Anders to flip out in the first place - doesn't ever reach that level. He's too focused on his personal demons. Anders thinks big, and that's why he's much more dangerous.