55380 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Well, on a completely different subject which I know has been hashed and rehashed...

Those three years between Act 2 and Act 3. I have so much trouble reconciling this. I've done a few playthroughs (not saying how many, too many for the short period of time the game has been out), divided between friendmance and rivalmance.

For a friendmance it makes a bit more sense, they're friends, Hawke is teaching him to read, so they probably spend time together anyway. For a rivalmance, they're not friends, there is NO teaching going on, etc.

However, I'm just wondering if Varric got it a bit wrong (I'm going with that). There are a couple of things Hawke can say to Fenris which makes it sound like they ARE still together, even if they've backed the hell off. Like when s/he tells him, "You still have me" at the end of Alone, or when s/he tells him, "I hope whatever happens we stay together." These lines don't sound like, "I hope we can make up." They sound like something someone who is in a relationship would say.

Plus, even if you haven't rekindled things in the game, you still get the confrontation with Anders (though you can choose, "He left me," you do NOT have to pick that), you still get Fenris being jealous about Zevran... these are things that also sound like they're still a couple of sorts. Merrill's comments about him being in love are there as well (though she'll say that even if you've moved on).

It seems like they may have made up, at least to a certain extent, when he comes to comfort him/her in act 2.

That is the only way I can reconcile those three years. Otherwise, it's just too long a time period to be in the are-we-or-aren't-we stage.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 mars 2011 - 08:33 .

[Tasmen]

ejoslin wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
I got that impression as well, because of the snarky way he said it.  And it fits with Fenris not mentioning sex when he was a slave. I think it's why he only talks about before his markings and after he escaped. However, I've seen it argued that Denarius is lying to humiliate Fenris.  But why the tiptoe around his sex life (or lack thereof) as a slave?

He never had the degree of intimacy as he did with Hawke no matter what.

I've seen the lie theory before and I'm not so sure about it.  Almost as if that sort of comment would be beneath Denarius to make.  He needn't stoop to such things to get his 'pet' back.

I don't agree with it at all, but it's not worth arguing either.  If you see Fenris as not remembering sex at all, then Denarius has to be lying.  If you see it as Fenris talking about being close with someone, trusting and caring, then what Denarius says can be taken as truth. 

But that is also where the ambiguity is good.  Both points of view are valid, because there are enough blanks that you can make either make sense.  Of course, I think the way I see it is THE right way, but, well, that's just me anyway

Broken record of agreement playing on repeat here...

The ambiguity definitely leaves a lot of room for interpretation which hey can make great fic and chit-chats :happy:

[DemonSaya]

Arlias wrote...

regarding the glitch... I can't get it to work. I'm playing the PC version, and i mage, what's the button to pull my weapons out? I usually just heal myself and run up the NPC, but I'm having issues.

I don't know how the glitch works for PC players.  I'm unfortunately on a console  >.>;

[Thrazesul]

Balthamoss wrote...
I think it's stubble since he also has beard stubble in his concept art. Just a minor detail though, but I like it, it's manly ^^.

I wouldn't mind the stubble myself either. xD

Those three years does sound rather long indeed, so they must have made up at some point... question is how much. It makes more sense that they at least stayed friends during those years, especielly in a friendshipmance.

But how much friends! Agh, the time skipping in this game really seems weird sometimes!

[DemonSaya]

ejoslin wrote...

Well, on a completely different subject which I know has been hashed and rehashed...

Those three years between Act 2 and Act 3. I have so much trouble reconciling this. I've done a few playthroughs (not saying how many, too many for the short period of time the game has been out), divided between friendmance and rivalmance.

For a friendmance it makes a bit more sense, they're friends, Hawke is teaching him to read, so they probably spend time together anyway. For a rivalmance, they're not friends, there is NO teaching going on, etc.

However, I'm just wondering if Varric got it a bit wrong (I'm going with that). There are a couple of things Hawke can say to Fenris which makes it sound like they ARE still together, even if they've backed the hell off. Like when s/he tells him, "You still have me" at the end of Alone, or when s/he tells him, "I hope whatever happens we stay together." These lines don't sound like, "I hope we can make up." They sound like something someone who is in a relationship would say.

Plus, even if you haven't rekindled things in the game, you still get the confrontation with Anders (though you can choose, "He left me," you do NOT have to pick that), you still get Fenris being jealous about Zevran... these are things that also sound like they're still a couple of sorts. Merrill's comments about him being in love are there as well (though she'll say that even if you've moved on).

It seems like they may have made up, at least to a certain extent, when he comes to comfort her in act 2.

That is the only way I can reconcile those three years. Otherwise, it's just too long a time period to be in the are-we-or-aren't-we stage.

I'm pretty sure what happens is he freaks out and wants to 'back off'.  He probably does try at first to be 'broken up', but I don't imagine it lasted long.  I think it's entirely possible that Hawke spent those three years chipping away at his barriers, until he caved.  For all we know there were lots of 'near misses', where they got close to having a replay of act two romance during those three years, but either he or she backed off because of what happened the last time.

[Tealsie]

DemonSaya wrote...

.  I think it's entirely possible that Hawke spent those three years chipping away at his barriers, until he caved.  

I imagine some/alot of that "chipping" happened once a year, on the anniversary of his escape from Danarius. Hawke and Fenris probably got together at the mansion to celebrate with a bottle of wine.
...and drunk!Fenris-singing. I hope.  and possible drunk!dancing through the mansion by the two of them.

[RosaAquafire]

Hey, Fengirls, sorry I haven't been around lately. I come bearing an annoying question!

My best friend is absolutely tearing her hair out over Fenris, here. This is her second playthrough, and she's having a lot of trouble with making the romance progress in Act 2. He's on the friendship path and she's been flirting with him all along. They had the conversation at the start-ish of Act 2 where Fenris intimates he'd be down for sex some other time. Before that conversation happened, her Hawke has slept with Isabela, but said it was just for fun. I'm pretty sure she also flirted with Anders, but nothing serious happened.

So she gets to the end of A Bitter Pill, asks him not to leave, but he leaves anyway. And then he doesn't come back to offer sex later. Ever.

Is he broken? Did she miss her chance and set a flag wrong? Is this bugged? You're supposed to be able to sleep with other characters before Fenris, so long as you're faithful after, right? Anyone have some advice? Does she need to load from an earlier save? What messed this up so she doesn't make the same mistake twice? Anyone? Bueller?

Would appreciate the help!

[ejoslin]

DemonSaya wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Well, on a completely different subject which I know has been hashed and rehashed...

Those three years between Act 2 and Act 3. I have so much trouble reconciling this. I've done a few playthroughs (not saying how many, too many for the short period of time the game has been out), divided between friendmance and rivalmance.

For a friendmance it makes a bit more sense, they're friends, Hawke is teaching him to read, so they probably spend time together anyway. For a rivalmance, they're not friends, there is NO teaching going on, etc.

However, I'm just wondering if Varric got it a bit wrong (I'm going with that). There are a couple of things Hawke can say to Fenris which makes it sound like they ARE still together, even if they've backed the hell off. Like when s/he tells him, "You still have me" at the end of Alone, or when s/he tells him, "I hope whatever happens we stay together." These lines don't sound like, "I hope we can make up." They sound like something someone who is in a relationship would say.

Plus, even if you haven't rekindled things in the game, you still get the confrontation with Anders (though you can choose, "He left me," you do NOT have to pick that), you still get Fenris being jealous about Zevran... these are things that also sound like they're still a couple of sorts. Merrill's comments about him being in love are there as well (though she'll say that even if you've moved on).

It seems like they may have made up, at least to a certain extent, when he comes to comfort her in act 2.

That is the only way I can reconcile those three years. Otherwise, it's just too long a time period to be in the are-we-or-aren't-we stage.

I'm pretty sure what happens is he freaks out and wants to 'back off'.  He probably does try at first to be 'broken up', but I don't imagine it lasted long.  I think it's entirely possible that Hawke spent those three years chipping away at his barriers, until he caved.  For all we know there were lots of 'near misses', where they got close to having a replay of act two romance during those three years, but either he or she backed off because of what happened the last time.

It's those comments Hawke makes in act 3 which makes me think that at some point they did get back together, but keeping things a bit less intense.  His codex talks about how he refused to talk about that night (and Hawke mentions it as well) and such and there are unresolved feelings, but that doesn't mean it's an entire break.  I think things just had to be there somewhat in order for her to say, "Wherever it leads, I hope it means we'll stay together." "Staying" means they're already together I would think.

But the relationship would be at a standstill until he talked about his feelings.  But that doesn't mean they didn't make up at some point.

However, the other confrontations are just weird if they're not a couple.  I like the thought that they got back together when he comforted her, and also, that there was the 700 pound gorilla called that night that they were just avoiding.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 mars 2011 - 08:43 .

[dandybananas]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Hey, Fengirls, sorry I haven't been around lately. I come bearing an annoying question!

My best friend is absolutely tearing her hair out over Fenris, here. This is her second playthrough, and she's having a lot of trouble with making the romance progress in Act 2. He's on the friendship path and she's been flirting with him all along. They had the conversation at the start-ish of Act 2 where Fenris intimates he'd be down for sex some other time. Before that conversation happened, her Hawke has slept with Isabela, but said it was just for fun. I'm pretty sure she also flirted with Anders, but nothing serious happened.

So she gets to the end of A Bitter Pill, asks him not to leave, but he leaves anyway. And then he doesn't come back to offer sex later. Ever.

Is he broken? Did she miss her chance and set a flag wrong? Is this bugged? You're supposed to be able to sleep with other characters before Fenris, so long as you're faithful after, right? Anyone have some advice? Does she need to load from an earlier save? What messed this up so she doesn't make the same mistake twice? Anyone? Bueller?

Would appreciate the help!

She has forever lost that hunk of an elf. Fenris does not tolerate Hawke sleeping with anyone before or after you romance him.

[Boudicia_]

[quote]jadefishes wrote...

[quote]ejoslin wrote...

[quote]Batorific wrote...

[quote]Helen0rz wrote...

With the pain, if he does feel the physical kind then I think it's a memory thing because it's trauma. To me, he got glowy it's because of extreme emotions, and during he make out scene he felt strongly about Hawke and therefore the kiss happened. Also I think being ambiguous is good, leave things to the imagination and self Interpretation
[/quote]

actually David posted ages back that Fenris does indeed feel pain. doubly so when the tattoos are touched.  but keeping in mind its a CONSTANT pain, i'm sure he's desensitized to it to a degree.

it's pretty much going to hurt regardless, so i don't think he's that concerned about it. of course when he's touched by surprise and isn't mentally ready for it, it would be akin to someone poking you with something REALLY really hot. thus he jumps and goes to attack whatever touched him. but obviously if its hawke he wouldn't.

now if its touch he's actually READY for, its not the same. but yes, i'm sure there's an intricate post-traumatic stress disorder style side to the pain.  emotional pain.  but yeah.

[/quote]

Well, if the WoG says they cause him pain, and moreso when touched, then that's that.  But I agree that he must be desensitized to it, as he obviously is not going to spend the rest of his life celibate.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who doesn't see Fenris as a born-again virgin.  I found tha conversation about it very interesting as he does not mention whether he had sex at all during his time as a slave -- it's a deliberate avoiding of talking about that time period and I found that perhaps even more telling than had he said anything straight out.  I like that he didn't, though, so people can take it as they will.

[/quote]

I had to respond here about the pain; there might be other Gaider (I <3Gaider btw) quotes concerning Fenris' pain, but the one I found was

* I wouldn't make too big a deal of his touch-causes-pain thing. It's
more of an aversion than actual physical agony. You'll see when you
play, though honestly he doesn't dwell on it at all. It's not central to
his story.

It's in this thread - (at least I hope it links right) about the 5th post down).  If i have done this wrong and there is not a direct link - please use copy paste.  (oh and there are other nice Fenris tidbits in there...). 

http://social.biowar.../5481839/2&lf=8

[Tasmen]

dandybananas wrote...


She has forever lost that hunk of an elf. Fenris does not tolerate Hawke sleeping with anyone before or after you romance him.

That's not entirely true.  You can sleep with people BEFORE Fenris just not after.  I'm in a PT right now where **** m!hawke slept with Isabela and Anders before Fenris.

[dandybananas]

dandybananas wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Hey, Fengirls, sorry I haven't been around lately. I come bearing an annoying question!

My best friend is absolutely tearing her hair out over Fenris, here. This is her second playthrough, and she's having a lot of trouble with making the romance progress in Act 2. He's on the friendship path and she's been flirting with him all along. They had the conversation at the start-ish of Act 2 where Fenris intimates he'd be down for sex some other time. Before that conversation happened, her Hawke has slept with Isabela, but said it was just for fun. I'm pretty sure she also flirted with Anders, but nothing serious happened.

So she gets to the end of A Bitter Pill, asks him not to leave, but he leaves anyway. And then he doesn't come back to offer sex later. Ever.

Is he broken? Did she miss her chance and set a flag wrong? Is this bugged? You're supposed to be able to sleep with other characters before Fenris, so long as you're faithful after, right? Anyone have some advice? Does she need to load from an earlier save? What messed this up so she doesn't make the same mistake twice? Anyone? Bueller?

Would appreciate the help!

Damn double post!

Modifié par dandybananas, 21 mars 2011 - 08:45 .

[dandybananas]

Tasmen wrote...

dandybananas wrote...


She has forever lost that hunk of an elf. Fenris does not tolerate Hawke sleeping with anyone before or after you romance him.

That's not entirely true.  You can sleep with people BEFORE Fenris just not after.  I'm in a PT right now where **** m!hawke slept with Isabela and Anders before Fenris.

Say what?! HOW?! I have not heard or seen of anyone being able to do this.

[RosaAquafire]

Tasmen wrote...

dandybananas wrote...
She has forever lost that hunk of an elf. Fenris does not tolerate Hawke sleeping with anyone before or after you romance him.

That's not entirely true.  You can sleep with people BEFORE Fenris just not after.  I'm in a PT right now where **** m!hawke slept with Isabela and Anders before Fenris.

See, this is what I thought! Any insight into why she can't get Fenris to sleep with her, then?

By the way, the discussion over the last few pages has been FASCINATING, just read back, now. Ejoslin is my favourite

[starfrak]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Hey, Fengirls, sorry I haven't been around lately. I come bearing an annoying question!

My best friend is absolutely tearing her hair out over Fenris, here. This is her second playthrough, and she's having a lot of trouble with making the romance progress in Act 2. He's on the friendship path and she's been flirting with him all along. They had the conversation at the start-ish of Act 2 where Fenris intimates he'd be down for sex some other time. Before that conversation happened, her Hawke has slept with Isabela, but said it was just for fun. I'm pretty sure she also flirted with Anders, but nothing serious happened.

So she gets to the end of A Bitter Pill, asks him not to leave, but he leaves anyway. And then he doesn't come back to offer sex later. Ever.

Is he broken? Did she miss her chance and set a flag wrong? Is this bugged? You're supposed to be able to sleep with other characters before Fenris, so long as you're faithful after, right? Anyone have some advice? Does she need to load from an earlier save? What messed this up so she doesn't make the same mistake twice? Anyone? Bueller?

Would appreciate the help!

If by flirt with Anders do you mean kiss?  You have to break it off with Anders after you kiss him before you can progress with Fenris.  I'm pretty sure.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Well, on a completely different subject which I know has been hashed and rehashed...

Those three years between Act 2 and Act 3. I have so much trouble reconciling this. I've done a few playthroughs (not saying how many, too many for the short period of time the game has been out), divided between friendmance and rivalmance.

For a friendmance it makes a bit more sense, they're friends, Hawke is teaching him to read, so they probably spend time together anyway. For a rivalmance, they're not friends, there is NO teaching going on, etc.

It made a little more sense to me when I played it with the glowy-wall-kiss.  That was more Hawke-initiated and happens right after Hadriana, so his freakout afterward makes a lot of sense.

As for the three years, I could see it as two people letting the sleeping dog lie because they still want to be friends and work together.  Whether Hawke knows he still has a thing for her, that's probably up to the player.  Some of her responses in the apology do indicate to me that she knows.  The one that makes the most sense is "I understand.  I've always understood."  That makes it sound like she knew he just needed time and space to sort things out, but that he would come back eventually.  Not that you have to picture Hawke waiting with bated breath necessarily- she could have had flings in the meantime- though my apostate Champion probably would have had trouble finding dates.  lol

[DemonSaya]

dandybananas wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

dandybananas wrote...


She has forever lost that hunk of an elf. Fenris does not tolerate Hawke sleeping with anyone before or after you romance him.

That's not entirely true.  You can sleep with people BEFORE Fenris just not after.  I'm in a PT right now where **** m!hawke slept with Isabela and Anders before Fenris.

Say what?! HOW?! I have not heard or seen of anyone being able to do this.

Ditto, I had issues after my fem-hawke had fun-sex with Isabella.  Fenris didn't let her get the snogging in after his personal mission...

[Tasmen]

dandybananas wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

dandybananas wrote...


She has forever lost that hunk of an elf. Fenris does not tolerate Hawke sleeping with anyone before or after you romance him.

That's not entirely true.  You can sleep with people BEFORE Fenris just not after.  I'm in a PT right now where **** m!hawke slept with Isabela and Anders before Fenris.

Say what?! HOW?! I have not heard or seen of anyone being able to do this.

I just made sure to pick all broken heart or non heart options after the sexins.  Anders wasn't that happy with my Hawke, but whatever.  He should have known better as they hated each other.

Seriously, Isa showed up at the house one night. Sex happened and instead of talking about feelings, I think I picked the 'this was nothing' option (or something like that).  She was cool.

Then I did Anders' personal mission (I did NONE of Fenris' stuff... No "beliefs' no 'bitter bill') and finished it.  Did the deed and broke it off (broken heart option).

Only THEN did I do any of Fenris' missions and everything worked out just fine.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Well, on a completely different subject which I know has been hashed and rehashed...

Those three years between Act 2 and Act 3. I have so much trouble reconciling this. I've done a few playthroughs (not saying how many, too many for the short period of time the game has been out), divided between friendmance and rivalmance.

For a friendmance it makes a bit more sense, they're friends, Hawke is teaching him to read, so they probably spend time together anyway. For a rivalmance, they're not friends, there is NO teaching going on, etc.

It made a little more sense to me when I played it with the glowy-wall-kiss.  That was more Hawke-initiated and happens right after Hadriana, so his freakout afterward makes a lot of sense.

As for the three years, I could see it as two people letting the sleeping dog lie because they still want to be friends and work together.  Whether Hawke knows he still has a thing for her, that's probably up to the player.  Some of her responses in the apology do indicate to me that she knows.  The one that makes the most sense is "I understand.  I've always understood."  That makes it sound like she knew he just needed time and space to sort things out, but that he would come back eventually.  Not that you have to picture Hawke waiting with bated breath necessarily- she could have had flings in the meantime- though my apostate Champion probably would have had trouble finding dates.  lol

But but but...  In a rivalmance, they're not friends. They fight, they argue, they disagree on everything.  

Also, as I said, some of her comments make it sound like they ARE a couple.  "Wherever it leads, I hope it means we'll stay together." doesn't sound like it comes from someone who is hoping they get back together -- it sounds like it's coming from someone who doesn't want to break up.  Even "I understand.  I've always understood." could mean Hawke understood why he didn't want to talk about it and understands why he needed to back off.  While he does confirm to Anders in act 2 that he left Hawke, he still comes back when she needs him.

Plus, again, when you have Fenris jealous over Zevran even if you haven't finished "Alone", that borders on creepy if they're NOT together, even if not in the intense way that they were before.

Edit: I think they're finally TALKING about the relationship so it can move forward instead of stalling where it was.

I wonder if David Gaider laughs at all the head canon he reads...

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 mars 2011 - 08:58 .

[Tasmen]

Oh and I should note this was friendshipmancing. SO maybe that makes a difference? If you Rival, it's all or nothing but if you friendship you can have a little play on the side first?

[Tasmen]

ejoslin wrote...

But but but...  In a rivalmance, they're not friends. They fight, they argue, they disagree on everything.  

Also, as I said, some of her comments make it sound like they ARE a couple.  "Wherever it leads, I hope it means we'll stay together." doesn't sound like it comes from someone who is hoping they get back together -- it sounds like it's coming from someone who doesn't want to break up.  Even "I understand.  I've always understood." could mean Hawke understood why he didn't want to talk about it.  While he does confirm to Anders in act 2 that he left Hawke, he still comes back when she needs him.

Plus, again, when you have Fenris jealous over Zevran even if you haven't finished "Alone", that borders on creepy if they're NOT together, even if not in the intense way that they were before.

I don't know.  I can see lots of ways that they could not be together during those three years.  You can have uncomfortable awkwardness a plenty and not be a couple.  I agree the comments may lend to thinking they are still together, but I suppose, at least for me, I'm not buying it.

You can still be around someone and not be involved and that is what I imagined happened between the two of them.   They aren't 'friends' but that doesn't mean they don't still do things together (like missions, etc.) or see each other.  Given how close it appears Fenris is with some of the other companions, I imagine there would be some social overlap there.

[ejoslin]

Tasmen wrote...

Oh and I should note this was friendshipmancing. SO maybe that makes a difference? If you Rival, it's all or nothing but if you friendship you can have a little play on the side first?

I'll try it this playthrough which is a rivalmance.  I bet it works, though I'll feel crappy about doing that to Anders.  I think he's insane, but he deserves better than THAT.

[dandybananas]

Tasmen wrote...

dandybananas wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

dandybananas wrote...


She has forever lost that hunk of an elf. Fenris does not tolerate Hawke sleeping with anyone before or after you romance him.

That's not entirely true.  You can sleep with people BEFORE Fenris just not after.  I'm in a PT right now where **** m!hawke slept with Isabela and Anders before Fenris.

Say what?! HOW?! I have not heard or seen of anyone being able to do this.

I just made sure to pick all broken heart or non heart options after the sexins.  Anders wasn't that happy with my Hawke, but whatever.  He should have known better as they hated each other.

Seriously, Isa showed up at the house one night. Sex happened and instead of talking about feelings, I think I picked the 'this was nothing' option (or something like that).  She was cool.

Then I did Anders' personal mission (I did NONE of Fenris' stuff... No "beliefs' no 'bitter bill') and finished it.  Did the deed and broke it off (broken heart option).

Only THEN did I do any of Fenris' missions and everything worked out just fine.

Niiiiice. You have successfully navigated the bumby road of Fenris' romance and got your whoopi on the side. It all makes sense now. You should get some sort of achievment. Your methods are cruel, but worth of admiration. You have beaten the fickle Fenris. People need to know of this.

Modifié par dandybananas, 21 mars 2011 - 09:01 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...
But but but...  In a rivalmance, they're not friends. They fight, they argue, they disagree on everything.  

I consider them friends.  They're friends who argue about certain things vociferously.  I never saw the rivalmance as going from not-friends to sleeping together.

Plus, again, when you have Fenris jealous over Zevran even if you haven't finished "Alone", that borders on creepy if they're NOT together, even if not in the intense way that they were before.

I do see them as being still together in my game, but I mean a person can view it how they like for their own PC.  I guess the game assumes if you want to dump him, you'd go with Anders or someone else.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 mars 2011 - 08:59 .

[RosaAquafire]

Tasmen wrote...

Oh and I should note this was friendshipmancing. SO maybe that makes a difference? If you Rival, it's all or nothing but if you friendship you can have a little play on the side first?

My friend is definitely in a friendship romance, not a rivalry.

I was wrong, btw, she hadn't flirted with Anders at all. So her only other entanglement was with 'Bela, who she told it was just casual with after they slept together. She says there was no broken heart option on the dialogue wheel, though, just choice ones. Maybe the flag it setting wrong?

Gah, lame. You should totally be able to bang Isabela and then Fenris, if you can bang Anders and then Fenris.

Anyone know a way to "break up" with Isabela?