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[Helen0rz]

Lady Jess wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

 ok...I know we're having a somewhat serious discussion here about Fenris but I just came across this, not sure if anyone has seen this. I lol'd

http://inujade.devia...r fenris&qo=216

it's an explanation...sort of...

OMG lmo that was hilarious

now go look at my edit, i added a 2nd link

[Tanathir]

Maybe the pleasure with Hawke triggered Fenris's memories, and that contributed to him freaking out.  Like, would it happen every time they slept together?  Would he want those memories intruding on his unfamiliar but good feelings for Hawke?  He might not want to associate pleasure with slave memories, either.

I totally believe he fell in love at that first kiss with Hawke.  He probably had been thinking about the idea of taking their friendship further before that, but the high emotions after encountering Hadriana pushed it in a way he wasn't hoping for.  He says it's too soon, but I think the bigger issue is he is still feeling a bit out of control and vulnerable.  I think that night was completely better than anything he imagined, and it threw him off-balance.  He didn't realize he could feel this strongly with a good emotion when all the emotions he might have felt until that point were negative.

Hawke allowed and caused Fenris to feel happy, and I think he needed to take a while to realize he had permission to do so, even from himself.  He broods so much about his past and needing vengeance against Danarius, that he has to change his way of thinking to allow himself to feel nice things.

[TheComfyCat]

Lady Jess wrote...

I was so mad at my F!Hawke. I thought for sure we were going to move on, with Anders and be happy run away apopstates together but...no. She got Anders to her house and went all "what did you just say about him you nughumper???"  Poor thing didn't realize she was hung up.

Lol!

Out of curiosity... were you able to get back together with Fenris after breaking it off with Anders there?

[silver-crescent]

Does anyone have trouble with achieving full friendship or full rivalry with Fenris without going completely out of character?

It seems like if you're pro mages, then you also have to be pro slavery and a total dick to be full rival.

And if you're going friend, and you're actually nice to him you have to be completely anti-mages

Modifié par silver-crescent, 22 mars 2011 - 12:01 .

[Batorific]

ejoslin wrote...

I think the sex pushed him over.  Again, he definitely had feelings beforehand, strong STRONG feelings.  But it was actually making love that pushed him over, opened up his feelings, and completely overwhelmed him.

i fully agree on that point. i just didnt want others to dwindle it down to the "sex=love" cliche.  for one that fancies himself a Stand And Fight sort of guy, he mostly just runs away from his problems.  at least the sort he can't hit with a blade or FENRIS PAAAAWNCH.

i think the point of him giving Hawke the 3 year dead-silence about that night was because he didn't want to face those feelings. pain, for him, is something he knows how to deal with.  its his ever-constant companion.  so making her impatient or making her outright hate him is much easier to cope with than the idea of reaching out again.

its a sort of "I want you to hate me, but i want you to chase me" paradox.  after his sister betrays him, he realizes he WANTS someone to care about more than anything.  be it friends, or specifically in a romance, Hawke.  the idea of being Alone suddenly becomes far scarier than the closeness.

[Taura-Tierno]

Helen0rz wrote...

 ok...I know we're having a somewhat serious discussion here about Fenris but I just came across this, not sure if anyone has seen this. I lol'd

http://inujade.devia...r fenris&qo=216

it's an explanation...sort of...

*edit*and also for comic relief

http://fishmas.devia...r fenris&qo=357

On the serious topic, I imagined Hawke and Fenris as being something in-between during those 3 years ... I got that mostly from Fenris during the scene with Danarius. You know, Hawke says "you've got me" and Fenris carasses his cheek. Doesn't seem like something you'd do to just a friend, or an ex that you're distant with. So, they probably had their moments, but not anything physical or intimate as such. A friendship ... and some extra emotional stuff with awkwardness, and so on. 

[ejoslin]

Batorific wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I think the sex pushed him over.  Again, he definitely had feelings beforehand, strong STRONG feelings.  But it was actually making love that pushed him over, opened up his feelings, and completely overwhelmed him.

i fully agree on that point. i just didnt want others to dwindle it down to the "sex=love" cliche.  for one that fancies himself a Stand And Fight sort of guy, he mostly just runs away from his problems.  at least the sort he can't hit with a blade or FENRIS PAAAAWNCH.

i think the point of him giving Hawke the 3 year dead-silence about that night was because he didn't want to face those feelings. pain, for him, is something he knows how to deal with.  its his ever-constant companion.  so making her impatient or making her outright hate him is much easier to cope with than the idea of reaching out again.

its a sort of "I want you to hate me, but i want you to chase me" paradox.  after his sister betrays him, he realizes he WANTS someone to care about more than anything.  be it friends, or specifically in a romance, Hawke.  the idea of being Alone suddenly becomes far scarier than the closeness.

Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound cliche.  And I agree with you about him not wanting to deal with the feelings is why he wouldn't talk about it for three years.  But something intense DID happen when they made love -- it doesn't mean he was casual and then ZOMG MAGICAL SEXXOR LUV!  Just that is when his feelings finally came to the surface (which is why I say it's when he fell in love), and with that, many many other feelings also came rushing to the surface as well.  The floodgates were opened, and he did his damndist to shut them back.

 Merrill won't comment on him being in love until after that happens, for what it's worth.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 mars 2011 - 12:08 .

[starfrak]

Fenris leaving reminds me of "Hello, Goodbye" by the Beatles.

[Tanathir]

Batorific and Taura, I agree.  I think there was more closeness than friendship, but things went into a sort of courtly love phase.  Especially since Fenris wears Hawke's favor the whole time.  A knight and his lady/lord. 

[Helen0rz]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

 ok...I know we're having a somewhat serious discussion here about Fenris but I just came across this, not sure if anyone has seen this. I lol'd

http://inujade.devia...r fenris&qo=216

it's an explanation...sort of...

*edit*and also for comic relief

http://fishmas.devia...r fenris&qo=357

On the serious topic, I imagined Hawke and Fenris as being something in-between during those 3 years ... I got that mostly from Fenris during the scene with Danarius. You know, Hawke says "you've got me" and Fenris carasses his cheek. Doesn't seem like something you'd do to just a friend, or an ex that you're distant with. So, they probably had their moments, but not anything physical or intimate as such. A friendship ... and some extra emotional stuff with awkwardness, and so on. 

Yes. Ambiguous, sorta. I personally can't do that, but I'm no Hawke :happy:

[Batorific]

Tanathir wrote...

Batorific and Taura, I agree.  I think there was more closeness than friendship, but things went into a sort of courtly love phase.  Especially since Fenris wears Hawke's favor the whole time.  A knight and his lady/lord. 

i personally veiw it as a very close and sometimes awkward friendship.  at least in strict terms.  but it would indeed be quite close.  especially when so much dialogue hints at them remaining close over the 3 year break.

basically i picture everything you'd expect from 2 persons in love, minus the kissing, handholding, or other physical contact. if that makes any sense.  i'm sure in times of drunkeness there were probably close-calls ultimately ending with a fleeing from fenris or a polite stepping down from hawke.

but for any witnessing this extreme closeness, they would simply assume the two were also rutting in the corner when no one was lookin'.

[SurrealSadi]

Ambiguous relationship... Always awkward until something makes the couple talk it over.

I still swear that Fenris taught Hawke Tevinter swearwords in the 3 years while Hawke taught him to read...

[ejoslin]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Ambiguous relationship... Always awkward until something makes the couple talk it over.

I still swear that Fenris taught Hawke Tevinter swearwords in the 3 years while Hawke taught him to read...

In a rivalmance, though, Hawke doesn't teach Fenris how to read.  If Hawke suggests it, Fenris gets REALLY mad.

Edit: Then again, in a rivalmance, Fenris DOES teach Hawke at least one Tevinter phrase!

Festis bei umo canavarum.

Translation: "you will be the death of me."

That's it, though.  Hawke makes it clear that s/he doesn't understand Tevinter!

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[dandybananas]

Helen0rz wrote...

 ok...I know we're having a somewhat serious discussion here about Fenris but I just came across this, not sure if anyone has seen this. I lol'd

http://inujade.devia...r fenris&qo=216

it's an explanation...sort of...

*edit*and also for comic relief

http://fishmas.devia...r fenris&qo=357

LMAO. That explains everything! So it's wasn't because my Hawke was a bad lover he was actually too good. I see the light and my Hawke has regained his manhood. That comic is so precious.

[SurrealSadi]

ejoslin wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Ambiguous relationship... Always awkward until something makes the couple talk it over.

I still swear that Fenris taught Hawke Tevinter swearwords in the 3 years while Hawke taught him to read...

In a rivalmance, though, Hawke doesn't teach Fenris how to read.  If Hawke suggests it, Fenris gets REALLY mad.

Edit: Then again, in a rivalmance, Fenris DOES teach Hawke at least one Tevinter phrase!

Festis bei umo canavarum.

Translation: "you will be the death of me."

That's it, though.  Hawke makes it clear that s/he doesn't understand Tevinter!

Ahh. I've never done a rivalmance with Fen.  Yet... When I finish this runthrough I plan to make a mage Lord Hawke and do it then.

Edit: Is it me or does Tevinter, as a language, scream of Latin?

Modifié par SurrealSadi, 22 mars 2011 - 12:26 .

[Helen0rz]

SurrealSadi wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Ambiguous relationship... Always awkward until something makes the couple talk it over.

I still swear that Fenris taught Hawke Tevinter swearwords in the 3 years while Hawke taught him to read...

In a rivalmance, though, Hawke doesn't teach Fenris how to read.  If Hawke suggests it, Fenris gets REALLY mad.

Edit: Then again, in a rivalmance, Fenris DOES teach Hawke at least one Tevinter phrase!

Festis bei umo canavarum.

Translation: "you will be the death of me."

That's it, though.  Hawke makes it clear that s/he doesn't understand Tevinter!

Ahh. I've never done a rivalmance with Fen.  Yet... When I finish this runthrough I plan to make a mage Lord Hawke and do it then.

Edit: Is it me or does Tevinter, as a language, scream of Latin?

Pretty much, sounds like Latin

Also if you're just pursuiting a rival friendship with fenris, he'll get mad about the book reading thing. Basically, rival/reading=anger

[dandybananas]

ejoslin wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Ambiguous relationship... Always awkward until something makes the couple talk it over.

I still swear that Fenris taught Hawke Tevinter swearwords in the 3 years while Hawke taught him to read...

In a rivalmance, though, Hawke doesn't teach Fenris how to read.  If Hawke suggests it, Fenris gets REALLY mad.

Edit: Then again, in a rivalmance, Fenris DOES teach Hawke at least one Tevinter phrase!

Festis bei umo canavarum.

Translation: "you will be the death of me."

Didn't he kind of concede to Hawke teaching him how to read? You know after he apologized after bashing my Hawke so hard and making him feel so bad that he wanted to crawl under a rock. I will have to click the bookshelf to see. I want a sweet scene like this: megfanclub.deviantart.com/gallery/ precious fen baby don't worry Hawke is better than hooked on phonics!

[Helen0rz]

dandybananas wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

 ok...I know we're having a somewhat serious discussion here about Fenris but I just came across this, not sure if anyone has seen this. I lol'd

http://inujade.devia...r fenris&qo=216

it's an explanation...sort of...

*edit*and also for comic relief

http://fishmas.devia...r fenris&qo=357

LMAO. That explains everything! So it's wasn't because my Hawke was a bad lover he was actually too good. I see the light and my Hawke has regained his manhood. That comic is so precious.

And this describes the hatred between Anders and Fenris

http://alphyna.devia...r fenris&qo=459

[SurrealSadi]

Helen0rz wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Ambiguous relationship... Always awkward until something makes the couple talk it over.

I still swear that Fenris taught Hawke Tevinter swearwords in the 3 years while Hawke taught him to read...

In a rivalmance, though, Hawke doesn't teach Fenris how to read.  If Hawke suggests it, Fenris gets REALLY mad.

Edit: Then again, in a rivalmance, Fenris DOES teach Hawke at least one Tevinter phrase!

Festis bei umo canavarum.

Translation: "you will be the death of me."

That's it, though.  Hawke makes it clear that s/he doesn't understand Tevinter!

Ahh. I've never done a rivalmance with Fen.  Yet... When I finish this runthrough I plan to make a mage Lord Hawke and do it then.

Edit: Is it me or does Tevinter, as a language, scream of Latin?

Pretty much, sounds like Latin

Also if you're just pursuiting a rival friendship with fenris, he'll get mad about the book reading thing. Basically, rival/reading=anger

Okay. Thank you for the warning! Lets me know what Navarre will be getting himself into with Fen.

[DemonSaya]

silver-crescent wrote...

Does anyone have trouble with achieving full friendship or full rivalry with Fenris without going completely out of character?

It seems like if you're pro mages, then you also have to be pro slavery and a total dick to be full rival.

And if you're going friend, and you're actually nice to him you have to be completely anti-mages

No, I don't.  I've been anti-slave and pro-mage this whole playthrough and Fenris is nearly completely maxed out on the rivalry bar.  I'm also only at the end of Act 1.  Most of the 'friendship' points come during the companion conversations.  It's possible to flirt and still earn rival points  :innocent:

[ejoslin]

SurrealSadi wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Ambiguous relationship... Always awkward until something makes the couple talk it over.

I still swear that Fenris taught Hawke Tevinter swearwords in the 3 years while Hawke taught him to read...

In a rivalmance, though, Hawke doesn't teach Fenris how to read.  If Hawke suggests it, Fenris gets REALLY mad.

Edit: Then again, in a rivalmance, Fenris DOES teach Hawke at least one Tevinter phrase!

Festis bei umo canavarum.

Translation: "you will be the death of me."

That's it, though.  Hawke makes it clear that s/he doesn't understand Tevinter!

Ahh. I've never done a rivalmance with Fen.  Yet... When I finish this runthrough I plan to make a mage Lord Hawke and do it then.

Edit: Is it me or does Tevinter, as a language, scream of Latin?

I thought it looked Latin in structure as well.  It's pretty interesting how made up words can just have that look about them.

[ejoslin]

DemonSaya wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Does anyone have trouble with achieving full friendship or full rivalry with Fenris without going completely out of character?

It seems like if you're pro mages, then you also have to be pro slavery and a total dick to be full rival.

And if you're going friend, and you're actually nice to him you have to be completely anti-mages

No, I don't.  I've been anti-slave and pro-mage this whole playthrough and Fenris is nearly completely maxed out on the rivalry bar.  I'm also only at the end of Act 1.  Most of the 'friendship' points come during the companion conversations.  It's possible to flirt and still earn rival points  :innocent:

Oh yeh.  If you're confrontational to him, you can get into great fights, and once you're on that path, it's easy to keep him going that way.  And once you're far enough down the rivalry path, he won't give approval for things that he will if he's more neutral or positive.

And gifts.  Yeh.  Wow, when a companion is a rival, their reaction to the gifts are so different.

[TheComfyCat]

silver-crescent wrote...

Does anyone have trouble with achieving full friendship or full rivalry with Fenris without going completely out of character?

It seems like if you're pro mages, then you also have to be pro slavery and a total dick to be full rival.

And if you're going friend, and you're actually nice to him you have to be completely anti-mages

The trick to getting friendships and rivalries where you want them is to choose the right party for how you're going to play a particular quest. If you don't want friendship points, don't bring Fenris on a quest where you know you're going to get 10/15 friendship points for sending mages to the circle. And you don't have to be pro-slavery; Fenris usually gets pissed if you do anything other than immediately attack slavers, so you can try to negotiate with them before killing them for some rivalry too.

But in general, Fenris's sticking point is mages, so if you want to be his rival, you're going to have to make pro-mage choices. I wouldn't worry about the 5 friendship points you may get here and there for having an "in character" conversation with him when you can easily get 10/15 rivalry points for letting a mage free, or giving Merrill her knife, or making a comment that doesn't condemn mages, etc.

Once you get to a certain level of rivalry, giving gifts and whatnot goes towards rivalry points no matter how you respond anyway.

Modifié par senorfuzzylips, 22 mars 2011 - 12:36 .

[SurrealSadi]

ejoslin wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Ambiguous relationship... Always awkward until something makes the couple talk it over.

I still swear that Fenris taught Hawke Tevinter swearwords in the 3 years while Hawke taught him to read...

In a rivalmance, though, Hawke doesn't teach Fenris how to read.  If Hawke suggests it, Fenris gets REALLY mad.

Edit: Then again, in a rivalmance, Fenris DOES teach Hawke at least one Tevinter phrase!

Festis bei umo canavarum.

Translation: "you will be the death of me."

That's it, though.  Hawke makes it clear that s/he doesn't understand Tevinter!

Ahh. I've never done a rivalmance with Fen.  Yet... When I finish this runthrough I plan to make a mage Lord Hawke and do it then.

Edit: Is it me or does Tevinter, as a language, scream of Latin?

I thought it looked Latin in structure as well.  It's pretty interesting how made up words can just have that look about them.

Yeah, I mean, 'canavarum' is so close to being totally Latin it's silly not to see the comparison.

I know someone(probably Gaider) mentioned that they took cues from some real world languages for languages in Thedas, like Antivan is similar to Italian/Spanish. Latin may be a dead language, but it's still used everywhere.

Edit: Odd. I had Merill at practically 100% Rival and her reaction to the Halla carving was...thankful. She loved it.

Modifié par SurrealSadi, 22 mars 2011 - 12:37 .

[DemonSaya]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

silver-crescent wrote...

Does anyone have trouble with achieving full friendship or full rivalry with Fenris without going completely out of character?

It seems like if you're pro mages, then you also have to be pro slavery and a total dick to be full rival.

And if you're going friend, and you're actually nice to him you have to be completely anti-mages

The trick to getting friendships and rivalries where you want them is to choose the right party for how you're going to play a particular quest. If you don't want friendship points, don't bring Fenris on a quest where you know you're going to get 10/15 friendship points for sending mages to the circle. And you don't have to be pro-slavery; Fenris usually gets pissed if you do anything other than immediately attack slavers, so you can try to negotiate with them before killing them for some rivalry too.

But in general, Fenris's sticking point is mages, so if you want to be his rival, you're going to have to make pro-mage choices. I wouldn't worry about the 5 friendship points you may get here and there for having an "in character" conversation with him when you can easily get 10/15 rivalry points for letting a mage free, or giving Merrill her knife, or making a comment that doesn't condemn mages, etc.

Once you get to a certain level of rivalry, giving gifts and whatnot goes towards rivalry points no matter how you respond anyway.

There's this sad part of me that's getting weepy because I loved how sweet he is during the friendmance...>.<;