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[MelRedux]

Tealsie wrote...
He explains to someone(can't remember who or when) something about not really trying to escape before, because he had no memories of life before he was a slave. So, as far as why he didn't try turning on them before, it could be because he didn't think too much on freedom. But then he had a taste of it when he was with the fog warriors, and it was only after that that he escaped.
I could imagine Danarius wanting a loose canon, although one he could control. Might be the reason why Danarius wiped his memories again if Hawke hands the poor boy back over to the creep.

Edit: ^^^: That's not what I was saying. I'm not really sure just how he acts in a rivalry romance, since I haven't got around to trying yet. Just that it seemed like he's more sweet and gentle and polite in a friendship romance.

Speaking of the fog warriors....when he told that story, I was thinking "Oh, Danarius is TOTALLY going to come for Fenris, and then order him to kill Hawke and party.  I wonder how that's going to play out!!!"

But that didn't happen

[ejoslin]

Tealsie wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Tealsie wrote...

Edit: ^^^: That's not what I was saying. I'm not really sure just how he acts in a rivalry romance, since I haven't got around to trying yet. Just that it seemed like he's more sweet and gentle and polite in a friendship romance.

He is sweeter in a friendship romance, but in a rivalry he acknowledges and accepts the differences.  It has a more raw feel to it, and a bit more passionate, but the loving dialog comes through just fine.

Edit: I should add that Fenris in a friendmance is sweeter to Hawke -- he's exactly the same to everyone else.

Oh good. I was afraid I'd lose some of the loveliness when I get around to playing my Hawke that's going to rival-romance him.
Is it any different if you're rival not because of your different beliefs, but because you're a jerk to him?

Hmmm, you'd get angrier dialogs if you choose the more direct/snarky comments, but that's true in a friendmance as well.  But I can't imagine rivalmance working if you have similar views.  I have him bottomed out in act 1, but it's completely from taking him everywhere and siding with the mages -- oh, and being a mage and telling him Hawke is after power.  Agreeing with him but being a jerk seems like it would cancel things out.

[UltiPup]

ejoslin wrote...

According to Merrill, he makes googly eyes at Hawke.  But he denies it vehemently!  Leandra also says something about the way they look at each other.

But I don't see him as a cuddler.  At all.

Puppy eyes are googly eyes. He isn't making them to say "I wuv you" but rather "I desire you but I feel like I cannot have you at the moment". The fact that he doesn't make them while Hawke is looking is further evidence. I want my abdass Fenris with a soft spot for Lady Hawke. If I wanted Fenris to spout verse after verse of romantic poetry and whisper sweet nothings, I'd have hooked up with that Bad Poet that Isabela dumped.

[Tealsie]

But in a friend romance I disagreed with him, but wasn't jerkish. He practically flew over friendship, even with me dragging him everywhere.
Ohwell. I'll have to play that Hawke later, and see what jerkery does to Fenris.

[Gilsa]

@Mel -- The constant theme in Fenris' story is how alone he is. It's him against the world pretty much. (He told Hawke at the final battle she was his only friend.) Adjust attitude accordingly. =p

[ejoslin]

UltiPup wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

According to Merrill, he makes googly eyes at Hawke.  But he denies it vehemently!  Leandra also says something about the way they look at each other.

But I don't see him as a cuddler.  At all.

Puppy eyes are googly eyes. He isn't making them to say "I wuv you" but rather "I desire you but I feel like I cannot have you at the moment". The fact that he doesn't make them while Hawke is looking is further evidence. I want my abdass Fenris with a soft spot for Lady Hawke. If I wanted Fenris to spout verse after verse of romantic poetry and whisper sweet nothings, I'd have hooked up with that Bad Poet that Isabela dumped.

Merrill says, though, "You're in love."  Hah, the way he denies it really makes it more clear.  That doesn't mean I think he's going to spout off poetry (I believe NOTHING of the sort).  Just because he can't hide his feelings doesn't mean he's a sap @@ I think I agree with you for the most part.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[ejoslin]

Tealsie wrote...

But in a friend romance I disagreed with him, but wasn't jerkish. He practically flew over friendship, even with me dragging him everywhere.
Ohwell. I'll have to play that Hawke later, and see what jerkery does to Fenris.

What I said was, agreeing with him but being a jerk would most likely cancel things out.  I really have had no problems bottoming his approval, though, even being decent (well, aside from telling him he whines too much).  She's a mage, strike one, wants power, strike 2, stands up for mages, argues with templars...  that meter just dropped.

[UltiPup]

Funny. My Rogue was pro mage and I was desperately trying to please him without being his ****. The more he spat out venom, the more I wanted him to like me. This is a bad mental issue, is it not?

[Thrazesul]

It'd be interesting if Danarius had come back and told Fenris to kill Hawke and the others. But I'm a sucker for the whole "protect/be jealous" of my characters. xD

[Lady Jess]

We've had the whole Fenris was used sexually by Danarius discussion. But I don't think that's it. Hadriana was the one he spoke most bitterly about. If there was sexual abuse going on I think, it was Hadriana. Danarius may have been excited about that, or even watched but in the after talk it really sounds like she was using him. The "dogging his sleep" thing made me suspicious, and the fact that he said he couldn't walk away. 

Modifié par Lady Jess, 23 mars 2011 - 07:57 .

[UltiPup]

I think he is more bitter to Hadriana because she actually abused him. Danarius seemed to have used him for power and to protect him/kill people. It didn't sound like Danarius actually harmed him beyond the tattoos. Hadriana went around her master's back and kicked his "pet".

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Lady Jess wrote...

dogging his sleep?

That means frequently and deliberately waking a person or disrupting/preventing sleep. It's arguably a means of torture.

Why do we have to speculate over whether he was sexually abused? Seriously there's nothing implying it except for creepy behavior from Danarius, and sometimes people are just creepy. I've said it before, if he was, during the time he remembers, I think he'd be more than merely exasperated by Isabela's slavery-themed fantasies.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 23 mars 2011 - 08:04 .

[Helen0rz]

@ultipup

I disagree. I believe Danarius is abuse him. Hadrianna's abuse did not help. It's a mentality that you're a slave and I'm not therefore I'm going to look down on you as well kinda stuff with her. Fenris's state of mind, in my opinion, says that basically she's not his master but is treating him like she is and did cruel things to him, but it's not like his master would care anyway

[MelRedux]

UltiPup wrote...

I think he is more bitter to Hadriana because she actually abused him. Danarius seemed to have used him for power and to protect him/kill people. It didn't sound like Danarius actually harmed him beyond the tattoos. Hadriana went around her master's back and kicked his "pet".

I agree with this 100%!

Pseudocognition wrote...

Why do we have to speculate over whether he was sexually abused? Seriously there's nothing implying it except for creepy behavior from Danarius, and sometimes people are just creepy.

I also agree with this!  I didn't get the sexually abused vibe until I came to BSN and saw other people talking about it.  When I replayed, it still seemed like Daranius' comments were just Danarius being creepy.
And his "he's quite skilled....jealous?" comments were jsut a reference to his actual abilities, like the Kali-Ma Phase Punch.  Like, "Aren't you jealous that I gave him these skills and I can use them to my whim, because he is my slave and not yours??"

Modifié par Mel_Redux, 23 mars 2011 - 08:07 .

[Helen0rz]

Did abuse him*

Ugh stupid phone

[UltiPup]

Helen0rz wrote...

@ultipup

I disagree. I believe Danarius is abuse him. Hadrianna's abuse did not help. It's a mentality that you're a slave and I'm not therefore I'm going to look down on you as well kinda stuff with her. Fenris's state of mind, in my opinion, says that basically she's not his master but is treating him like she is and did cruel things to him, but it's not like his master would care anyway

Well, I am only basing this on what Fenris tells you and how he reacts to both people. He only remarks on his tattoos when it comes to what Danarius has done to him. And if his master was using his as a bodyguard, he couldn't have physically abused him. You don't nearly kill what is in a sense your power source and what keeps you from getting assassinated. If there is any abuse, its just mental.

[ejoslin]

Ok, you have a slave who is physically beautiful and completely compliant in a society that is totally corrupt. It's not a reach to think Denarius is telling the truth. But I don't think it's what is traumatizing him either. /shrug. It's an ugly world for sure.

[Addai]

Mel_Redux wrote...

Tealsie wrote...
I think that he, himself, is a pretty calm and polite person, since when he goes RAGE on, say, Hadriana, he aplogises to Hawke. And then explains that the hate was planted in him by Danarius and Hadriana. I think it starts to change with Hawke not because of "twu wuv" but because he has no reason to RAGE at them(unless you play rivalry with him). He aplogises whenever he does snap at Hawke.

...you made sense, but I might not be making any.

I think I'm having trouble understanding the bolded part.  Yes, they used him as a slave and treated him badly.  But was he saying it was purposeful?  Maybe they thought having a loose cannon as a bodyguard would be more effective?  And how did they have such a hold over him?  What was keeping him from turning on them?

It could have been deliberate, as a way to dehumanize him (de-elfanize?) so that he would never have an independent will.  I'm thinking about Song of Ice and Fire, about the extremely cruel rituals used to erase any sense of identity in the slaves at Slaver's Bay, so that they were just fighting machines that would kill on command.  And it worked, until that one day...

Modifié par Addai67, 23 mars 2011 - 08:15 .

[ColaQueen]

Helen0rz wrote...

@Mel_Redux

You have to think of it as from his perspective. It's not so much the whole slave thing messed him up, but that he's pretty much as no one. Because of the memory wipe, he doesn't not remember anything that's worth remembering; obey his master was all he knew. He had no hope, no desire, no education. That makes him ill equipped to start a new life, like you said. The fog warriors introduced the idea of 'freedom', but Hawke gave him a reason/showed him what it means 'to live'. This is why Danarius is a very smart evil man; if you stripped away someone's memory and replace it with everything you say, he's much easier to control. Fenris is bitter because he has absolutely nothing. Love is essentially something unfamiliar because there's no trust when it comes to others.

His frustration with the idea that he'll never truly be free and anger towards what was taken from him made him closed off to others because, well, it's the only way he can protect himself. He would rather keep running than to have someone betray him, it'll be too much to bare for him

You are so wise!

[Reznore57]

I don't think he's been sexualy abused.But he's been tortured , the lyrium branding.
Must be like getting your whole body burned.
If your body been thru so much pain , inflicted by others , of course , you will have a problem with touching etc...

And yeah he's got problem , but somebody took everything from him , his past /familly, almost his soul (making him kill people) etc...
When you meet him , he barely knows himself ,he's a killing machine with nothing to hold onto.
I would be kinda bitter and wierd too

[Jenova65]

Helen0rz wrote...

@ultipup

I disagree. I believe Danarius is abuse him. Hadrianna's abuse did not help. It's a mentality that you're a slave and I'm not therefore I'm going to look down on you as well kinda stuff with her. Fenris's state of mind, in my opinion, says that basically she's not his master but is treating him like she is and did cruel things to him, but it's not like his master would care anyway

Danarius definitely hints at using/abusing Fenris in the way he digs at Hawke's jealousy stating that it i understandable as Fenris is ''rather skilled, isn't he?'' Fenris's reaction to it also leads you to certain conclusions of what Fenris suffered at Danarius's hands.........  
Anyway, this thread still moves too fast for me  but I am definitely a *Fengirl* and do pop in to read 

[Reznore57]

I really think danarius 's talking about making him a killing machine .
He's proud of the monster he creates.
It must be really hard for fenris to hear that , thinking that he made him kill people he care for.

[Helen0rz]

@ultipup and Jenova65
And this is when we get to the implied part where it's really about our own interpretation of things

@SilverSentinel
Thank you

[UltiPup]

I never really thought of sexual abuse until Isabela brought up the oil thing. Isabela...really spoils a lot of things for me.

[Jenova65]

Reznore57 wrote...

I really think danarius 's talking about making him a killing machine .
He's proud of the monster he creates.
It must be really hard for fenris to hear that , thinking that he made him kill people he care for.

Well it is open to interpretation and that was mine  
Certainly the way he says it sounds creepy at best...............
www.youtube.com/watch