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[Jenova65]

Is there a top of page rule? If so I can go and get something..............

Modifié par Jenova65, 23 mars 2011 - 08:32 .

[DemonSaya]

Ariana Hawke just got her angry!sex with Fenris (complete with neck nibbles). Twice, because I've never actually gotten the non-blue glow make-out scene...Seems to me Fenris seems to feel a LOT more guilty walking away in the friendshipmance...>.>

[Liyros]

I took that jealous line as Denarius suggesting that Hawke was jealous of his supposed control over Fenris. As in, when Fenris was still enslaved by Denarius, Fenris would do as commanded. Since Hawke referred to Fenris as a free man, it seemed like Denarius thought was a shortcoming on Hawke's part and thus envied the power he had over Fenris.

If that makes any sense. Ugh, I'm having a hard time verbalizing this.

Denarius just oozing creepy doesn't help, but I never thought the dialogue suggested sexual abuse.

[Jenova65]

Helen0rz wrote...

@ultipup and Jenova65
And this is when we get to the implied part where it's really about our own interpretation of things

@SilverSentinel
Thank you

I agree and I think it is purposely left open to interpretation. And I can certainly see why it is not something one might want to think about, but it sure sounded that way to me just going on tone of voice and expression.......

[Reznore57]

Danarius is just a creepy guy anyway.
Fenris tell sebastien he saw him kill a kid during a party.
Blood magic to impress his guests....

And the isabella joke ,you know , if something happen on this level , he wouldn't be so cool about the oiling thing and isabella picturing him having glistening relashionship with his master.

[DemonSaya]

Saslic wrote...

I took that jealous line as Denarius suggesting that Hawke was jealous of his supposed control over Fenris. As in, when Fenris was still enslaved by Denarius, Fenris would do as commanded. Since Hawke referred to Fenris as a free man, it seemed like Denarius thought was a shortcoming on Hawke's part and thus envied the power he had over Fenris.

If that makes any sense. Ugh, I'm having a hard time verbalizing this.

Denarius just oozing creepy doesn't help, but I never thought the dialogue suggested sexual abuse.

To be honest, it cross my mind.  Fenris never actually talks much about how Danarius treated him as a slave, just mentions that Hadirana would deny his meals, etc.  The 'rather skilled' comment did cause the hairs on my neck to raise because he says it in such a sleazy way that it almost BEGS for you to assume that's what he meant...>.>;  In which case, poor Fenris...

I still think it could go either way.  It just depends on how much of a sleeze Danarius really is.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

DemonSaya wrote...
 The 'rather skilled' comment did cause the hairs on my neck to raise because he says it in such a sleazy way that it almost BEGS for you to assume that's what he meant...>.>;

That's probably the point of the line. That is, not to suggest or imply or prove that anything like that happened, but to make you think it certainly wouldn't be beneath him to do so and to establish him as as the creepiest of creepers.

I'd be more worried about Varania.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 23 mars 2011 - 08:43 .

[Jenova65]

Reznore57 wrote...

Danarius is just a creepy guy anyway.
Fenris tell sebastien he saw him kill a kid during a party.
Blood magic to impress his guests....

And the isabella joke ,you know , if something happen on this level , he wouldn't be so cool about the oiling thing and isabella picturing him having glistening relashionship with his master.

Sort of like the Marquis de Sade........................... 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Sade

[Dr. Doctor]

I almost want to see a DLC or story of Danarius and Fenris back in the day. Because when he brought up the whole Tevinter-Qunari War all I could imagine is this Helm's Deep style battle.

Also storytime.

Shopping

Lowtown Bazaar

Fenris: Why are we here again?

Varric: I told you, women, your lady friend included like to go shopping.

Fenris: That doesn't answer my question.

Varric: Look, you like playing Wicked Grace at the Hanged Man right?

Fenris: Yes, but I fail to see-

Varric: Look, little things like this earn you leverage, you go out with her, and you can go play cards. See what I'm saying?

Fenris: She's not my jailer Varric, if being with her meant giving up cards I'd gladly do it.

Varric: (looks at Fenris with a shocked expression) Have you been turned into a Tranquil or something? Maker, look at Donnic!  We haven't seen him in weeks! Maybe Aveline...

Aveline: Maybe Aveline what?

Varric:...would like to join us for cards at the Hanged Man later?

Aveline: Alright, Varric, you're on. (Aveline walks off to rejoin Hawke)

Varric: And that Messere is why you need leverage.

Fenris: Or a modicum of self-control.

Varric: Touche.

[Reznore57]

I guess we never know about it , and it might be better this way.
But during the party banters , you can tell Fenris don't like at all what he is.
He calls his abilities a curse , and when asked to teach his skills to the guard etc , he refuses.
Saying he don't want to teach that to anybody.
I really think it's being turned into a murderer wicth hurt him the most.

Anyway i had a really funny moment with fenris.
I knew i was going to side with the mages.
And i offer him the blade of mercy and he goes "oh thank you , i like it , i will think of the irony of it..."
It's a symbol of the tevinter imprium.

I picture myself in the gallows "so what about that wonderful ironic weapon!?"
Fznris "gggr i hate you"

Modifié par Reznore57, 23 mars 2011 - 08:59 .

[Jenova65]

Reznore57 wrote...

I guess we never know about it , and it might be better this way.
But during the party banters , you can tell Fenris don't like at all what he is.
He calls his abilities a curse , and when asked to teach his skills to the guard etc , he refuses.
Saying he don't want to teach that to anybody.
I really think it's being turned into a murderer wicth hurt him the most.

True and true ^  And I think that was the writer's intention. 
Although I think there is a subconscious (maybe) knowledge that it might have been his fault/choice that it happened and for that reason his sister must always die  :devil:so he doesn't know for sure (at least not until it doesn't hurt him anymore........)
Actually I am interested in how many people allow him vengeance and how many people talk him round. I talked him out of it once, but prefer to let him *off* her, I am a forgiving person but imo, she really has it coming......... <_<

[Jenova65]

His fault with the slavery and lyrium tattoos to clarify ^

[Reznore57]

I already post about the sister thing and he doesn't seem to regret killing her.
But i think it's really not a good thing to let him do it.
You just don't deal with problem in life by killing people , even if they betray you.
His sister is a b**** but she's no threat to him.

[DemonSaya]

Jenova65 wrote...

Reznore57 wrote...

I guess we never know about it , and it might be better this way.
But during the party banters , you can tell Fenris don't like at all what he is.
He calls his abilities a curse , and when asked to teach his skills to the guard etc , he refuses.
Saying he don't want to teach that to anybody.
I really think it's being turned into a murderer wicth hurt him the most.

True and true ^  And I think that was the writer's intention. 
Although I think there is a subconscious (maybe) knowledge that it might have been his fault/choice that it happened and for that reason his sister must always die  :devil:so he doesn't know for sure (at least not until it doesn't hurt him anymore........)
Actually I am interested in how many people allow him vengeance and how many people talk him round. I talked him out of it once, but prefer to let him *off* her, I am a forgiving person but imo, she really has it coming......... <_<

I've done both.  To be honest, however, I think him knowing will not be a detriment.  I mean he did it to help his family (noble goal), even if his sister is a b**** about it.  "Oh, being a slave is SO much better than being free, what are you complaining about?!"

Ugh.  I think I'll let him kill her this time.  >.>;

[Jenova65]

Reznore57 wrote...

I already post about the sister thing and he doesn't seem to regret killing her.
But i think it's really not a good thing to let him do it.
You just don't deal with problem in life by killing people , even if they betray you.
His sister is a b**** but she's no threat to him.

I know she isn't a threat and I never normally make that kind of choice and I also agree that you wouldn't do it in real life. However it is a only a game and as far as my knowledge of her goes in the game, she is willingly selling her own brother back into slavery for her own ends therefore my Hawke views her as lowest form of life with no redeeming features 
From an RP POV Hawke has lost a beloved sibling due to their sefless sacrifice at the hands of an ogre and this madam is the polar opposite of that.

[Gr8pillock]

Saslic wrote...

I took that jealous line as Denarius suggesting that Hawke was jealous of his supposed control over Fenris. As in, when Fenris was still enslaved by Denarius, Fenris would do as commanded. Since Hawke referred to Fenris as a free man, it seemed like Denarius thought was a shortcoming on Hawke's part and thus envied the power he had over Fenris.

If that makes any sense. Ugh, I'm having a hard time verbalizing this.

Denarius just oozing creepy doesn't help, but I never thought the dialogue suggested sexual abuse.

I actually thought that when he got super sleezy, but THEN I heard the Fenris/Isabella banter that involved him GLISTENING for his master. Fenris didn't seem even mildly affected by that so I am thinking he wasn't abused in that way. If he had been, I can only assume her imagining him glistening for Danarius a little less 'irksome' and a little more troubling.

[Reznore57]

I understand letting him choose to kill her.
But After the hadrianna thing , he tells how he thinks about not killing her , but couldn't let her go because he's so angry.
I think you giving a chance to finally let thing go in a different way , and yeah that means there's some painful truth etc...
But that just my way of seeing the whole situation

[Gr8pillock]

Just sided with the templars, simply to get the achievement and see how the end unfolds. (Sebastian left without a threat of bringing armies on me, which was a nice change ) even though I let Anders go. I just can't effing kill him, damn it. It isn't in my nature...though let's be honest, neither is siding with the Templars. It is actually almost painful to play through the end and watch how it unfolds. Curiosity wins. And to be honest...I think I'll reload after I get it and play it the way I would, because having a friendly Carver come back saying, "I only came back because I thought you were fighting for your life!" made me frowny. He loves his seester. :')

[pamkhat]

Mel_Redux wrote...

Speaking of the fog warriors....when he told that story, I was thinking "Oh, Danarius is TOTALLY going to come for Fenris, and then order him to kill Hawke and party.  I wonder how that's going to play out!!!"

But that didn't happen

Yeah, I feel like that was a missed opportunity, but the way it played out wasn't bad. 

Personally, I got the creepers from Danarius. After a subsequent playthrough I realize that Fenris mentions not remembering any sexual encounter since he got all tatted up.  That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen considering how powerful denial can be (or it could have happened before the lyrium tats).  Even still, there’s no confirmation of sexual abuse, but Danarius is definitely creepy.  I think, or at least I hope, his dialogue was intended to make you wonder.

Modifié par pamkhat, 23 mars 2011 - 09:24 .

[ejoslin]

pamkhat wrote...

Mel_Redux wrote...

Speaking of the fog warriors....when he told that story, I was thinking "Oh, Danarius is TOTALLY going to come for Fenris, and then order him to kill Hawke and party.  I wonder how that's going to play out!!!"

But that didn't happen

Yeah, I feel like that was a missed opportunity, but the way it played out wasn't bad. 

Personally, I got the creepers from Danarius. After a subsequent playthrough I realize that Fenris mentions not remembering any sexual encounter since he got all tatted up.  That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen considering how powerful denial can be (or it could have happened before the lyrium tats).  Even still, there’s no confirmation of sexual abuse, but Danarius is definitely creepy.  I think, or at least I hope, his dialogue was intended to make you wonder.

Actually, he says he doesn't remember anything from before the markings and he hasn't been close to anyone since he escaped.  

[Helen0rz]

@Jenova

His sister...it's weird but I think the only thing thats still there that makes them brother/sister is just blood ties and thats it. Fenris sacrificed himself for his sister and mother's freedom, but it doesn't seem as though they got anywhere/much freedom. Base on what Varania said (if you let her live) about how she thinks he got the better end of the bargain, there's some resentment towards him. God knows what THEY had to do to survive after Danarius let them go.

I'm not saying it's ok to sell Fenris out or trying to justify her actions, I just sympathize with her situation. She's so desperate to change her life around she's willing to sell out a brother that's has been taken from the family, and at the same time shatter every bit of his...dream of having a family, or at least get his pre-memory wipe back

[Jenova65]

Gr8pillock wrote...

Just sided with the templars, simply to get the achievement and see how the end unfolds. (Sebastian left without a threat of bringing armies on me, which was a nice change ) even though I let Anders go. I just can't effing kill him, damn it. It isn't in my nature...though let's be honest, neither is siding with the Templars. It is actually almost painful to play through the end and watch how it unfolds. Curiosity wins. And to be honest...I think I'll reload after I get it and play it the way I would, because having a friendly Carver come back saying, "I only came back because I thought you were fighting for your life!" made me frowny. He loves his seester. :')

I was twitching whilst doing it, but tbh............ It didn't bother me that much. Since it gives you a chance to see the Templars as people who are doing their duty and genuinely think they are doing what is right. It allows you to see that they know Meredith was batsh*t crazy.......... And I kind of felt that they wanted to do better. It is clear that the waters are muddy on both sides and just about every mage will (as Samson suggests) resort to extreme measures. What we really needed was some Wynne type mages for balance 

[Gr8pillock]

Helen0rz wrote...

@Jenova

His sister...it's weird but I think the only thing thats still there that makes them brother/sister is just blood ties and thats it. Fenris sacrificed himself for his sister and mother's freedom, but it doesn't seem as though they got anywhere/much freedom. Base on what Varania said (if you let her live) about how she thinks he got the better end of the bargain, there's some resentment towards him. God knows what THEY had to do to survive after Danarius let them go.

I'm not saying it's ok to sell Fenris out or trying to justify her actions, I just sympathize with her situation. She's so desperate to change her life around she's willing to sell out a brother that's has been taken from the family, and at the same time shatter every bit of his...dream of having a family, or at least get his pre-memory wipe back

See, I kinda got the feeling when she says "You got the better end of the bargain" she isn't talking just about Danarius and being a slave, I almost think she's talking about the life he has at that moment. Like, seeing he has friends who stand by him and convince him to let her live, then she says it...he does kinda have a great life when it goes down...in comparison.

[Gr8pillock]

Jenova65 wrote...

Gr8pillock wrote...

Just sided with the templars, simply to get the achievement and see how the end unfolds. (Sebastian left without a threat of bringing armies on me, which was a nice change ) even though I let Anders go. I just can't effing kill him, damn it. It isn't in my nature...though let's be honest, neither is siding with the Templars. It is actually almost painful to play through the end and watch how it unfolds. Curiosity wins. And to be honest...I think I'll reload after I get it and play it the way I would, because having a friendly Carver come back saying, "I only came back because I thought you were fighting for your life!" made me frowny. He loves his seester. :')

I was twitching whilst doing it, but tbh............ It didn't bother me that much. Since it gives you a chance to see the Templars as people who are doing their duty and genuinely think they are doing what is right. It allows you to see that they know Meredith was batsh*t crazy.......... And I kind of felt that they wanted to do better. It is clear that the waters are muddy on both sides and just about every mage will (as Samson suggests) resort to extreme measures. What we really needed was some Wynne type mages for balance 

Right? When Orsino turned into an uber monster with Blood Magic, I got supremely pissed. Not a SINGLE pure mage in the GAME! Dang it! Save for my Hawke of course...

[Reznore57]

I think Fenris really need to hold onto something.
When his sisters betrays him , he just realize he can't be Leto .
But he can deal with it , cos he build a life , he has friends (avline , hawke etc..)
If you let Danarius take him , you can see him falling apart and he just surrenders.
I saw a video , i can't do it in game , it's just a awful and cruel moment to see him giving up on everything.