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[zee Anjan]

On the topic of the new looks of the races...

I'm both liking and disliking the new elven design. Over all I like it better then in Origins. The nose and and facial structure makes them pretty distinct from humans, though to be honest the ears could have been a little smaller and they would be more to my liking (thinks that is her biggest issue really). I can agree as well that the generic faces of a lot of the elves does leave a wish for more refinment and identity - But I really felt it was the same way in Origins, Zevran really stood out next to almost all the elves in Origins, so I can't really complain to much about it.
Otherwise the dwarves and wunari both looks great. Or at least I have not found anything that bugs me about them. A lot of the humans also seem pretty generic and not all to note worthy, so I am actually thinking its not just the elves...

[elenilote]

I don't like the new elf-design very much myself. In Origins, as much as the elves were 'small humans with pointy ears', they were beautiful - these new ones are full of awkward angles and weird proportions... not beautiful! Fenris is easy on the eye yes, but imagine how much more awesome he would be if he was just a bit closer to the DAO elves... *imagination overdirve swooooooon*....

[Jenova65]

ejoslin wrote...

DemonSaya wrote...

 And...beware of angst...

fightforthelost.deviantart.com/art/DA2-Loving-Rivals-202215843

Hmmm, I hate posting things like this on people's pages, so I'll post it here.  Fenris actually does say he and Hawke broke up in a banter with Anders.  He says it's done, and that leaving was the hardest thing he's ever done.

But that has nothing to do wtih the story.  I really REALLY enjoyed it.  Thank you for sharing!

Edit: I dont' think that they stayed broken up for those three years either.  But that's my head canon since three years is just too long for the two of them to pine.  Plus...  you get some things in act 3 that can happen before Alone is completed that does make it sound like they're a couple again.

What things? I do 'Alone', first, I am paranoid because I read somewhere (in the guide I think) that you have to do 'Alone', quickly or he leaves.......?

[ejoslin]

Fieryeel wrote...

Batorific wrote...

Fieryeel wrote...

Oh darn! I gave in when Isabella came onto me with the "Let's do some girly things" talk 

That was well before I did Fenris's slaver quest though.

yeah there's the problem then.  Fenris is pretty sensitive.  If you slept with anyone else prior, he won't let you any closer.  I guess he doesnt want to be reduced to a conquest?  either way, you'll just need to replay and not sleep with anyone else before Fenris.

Well it's simply time to roleplay into something new then.

Now my Hawke shall be full of vengeance and hate for the world, having been rejected for love by the ones she truly cares about.

Time to switch from a charming/sarcastic rogue into a chaotic evil one!

Well, there's always anders!

[ejoslin]

Jenova65 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

DemonSaya wrote...

 And...beware of angst...

fightforthelost.deviantart.com/art/DA2-Loving-Rivals-202215843

Hmmm, I hate posting things like this on people's pages, so I'll post it here.  Fenris actually does say he and Hawke broke up in a banter with Anders.  He says it's done, and that leaving was the hardest thing he's ever done.

But that has nothing to do wtih the story.  I really REALLY enjoyed it.  Thank you for sharing!

Edit: I dont' think that they stayed broken up for those three years either.  But that's my head canon since three years is just too long for the two of them to pine.  Plus...  you get some things in act 3 that can happen before Alone is completed that does make it sound like they're a couple again.

What things? I do 'Alone', first, I am paranoid because I read somewhere (in the guide I think) that you have to do 'Alone', quickly or he leaves.......?

He gets jealous with Zevran.  Anders confronts you about him as well.  Another thing, just triggering Alone (not completing it) is enough to get him to say "I am yours," though I'm sure this is just a flag issue.

The guide has a lot of mistakes in it.  You have to do Alone I would imagine before the final main quest (though I don't know -- I haven't tried starting it towards the end).

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

<snip>

He gets jealous with Zevran.  Anders confronts you about him as well.  Another thing, just triggering Alone (not completing it) is enough to get him to say "I am yours," though I'm sure this is just a flag issue.

The guide has a lot of mistakes in it.  You have to do Alone I would imagine before the final main quest (though I don't know -- I haven't tried starting it towards the end).

Yeah, that gives me (or my imaginition, if you wanna be pushy about it) a clue that there is something still going on.

The "I am yours" before completing "Alone" might be a flag issue, but I really don't want that fixed

[Batorific]

Sabriana wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


He gets jealous with Zevran.  Anders confronts you about him as well.  Another thing, just triggering Alone (not completing it) is enough to get him to say "I am yours," though I'm sure this is just a flag issue.

Yeah, that gives me (or my imaginition, if you wanna be pushy about it) a clue that there is something still going on.

well it does seem like the only thing they dont talk about is him walking out on hawke after sex.  who's to say they aren't still romantically close sometime in the three years?  not intimate, obviously.  but i have to say.... him drunk, my hawke drunk... someone is going to get kissed.

nothing seems to contradict this possibility from what i seen.  just that THE NIGHT OF NON-MENTIONING wasn't resolved.

[ejoslin]

Yeh, I like to think that when he comes to comfort Hawke, something got started again. Otherwise his reaction to Zevran is just too creepy. And Anders confronting Hawke about him? Downright weird.

Though the codex does seem to suggest they didn't get back together, it also doesn't even trigger until after things are resolved between them (which is kind of odd saying "who knows if they'll resolve things" after they are).

[Batorific]

ejoslin wrote...

Yeh, I like to think that when he comes to comfort Hawke, something got started again. Otherwise his reaction to Zevran is just too creepy. And Anders confronting Hawke about him? Downright weird.

Though the codex does seem to suggest they didn't get back together, it also doesn't even trigger until after things are resolved between them (which is kind of odd saying "who knows if they'll resolve things" after they are).

see all the things implying that they HAVE been together, plus his not-so-subtle favoritism toward hawke, not to mention his downright reliance on hawke tells me there's SOMETHING.

at first i was willing to dismiss it as the whole "pining after" thing but really when you look at all the damn dialogue... it suggests much more.  again, clearly not intimacy.

it's somewhat of an inconsistency.  perhaps its left up to us to interpret it?  it's kind of confusing.

[elenilote]

Maybe it's just the bedroom stuff that is *not* happening, they may be working it out by being otherwise in a *relationship*? My brain is not really engaged fully this morning so hope it comes out right...

[SurrealSadi]

They probably have a non-physical relationship in that 3 year gap...

this is why I want DLC to include what happens in those blasted time skips!

[Anarya]

I really don't think they're "together" during those three years or the makeup dialogue doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Fenris' feelings haven't changed at all, however, and he's not very good at hiding them.

[Reznore57]

I think nothing happen during the break , but it's up to the player to imagine how it goes.
Fenris is in love with hawke after their night together ,and everybody knows something happened.
I can't imagine Fenris telling anything to anyone , so i guess their attitude gives his/their feeling away.
Now your hawke might chase after him or shy away too ,forget about him or hope he will come back...

I guess my hawke will shy away , but since she really liked fenris , stayed friend with him and long for him to make up his mind.
3 years is a really long time but since she's an apostate ,who lost almost everything as the years goes by , she's kind of closed for "business"

That's how i imagine it.

[ejoslin]

Anarya wrote...

I really don't think they're "together" during those three years or the makeup dialogue doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Fenris' feelings haven't changed at all, however, and he's not very good at hiding them.

Actually, there's one line in the friendmace relationship that makes it sound like they were together (granted, rivalmance doesn't get this line).  Hawke says to him, "No matter what happens, I hope we stay together."  This doesn't sound like a make up line, it sounds like they ARE together and finally working stuff out.  Also, at the end of Alone when Hawke says, "You still have me," doesn't sound like "Let's make up, I've been wanted you all these years too."

I don't think they're intimate.  I don't even know if they would consider themselves together.  But something shifted somewhere to make him feel some sort of possessiveness.  It would be completely weird for someone who dumped you three years prior to get jealous if you try to hook up with someone -- jealous to the point where he put a stop to it -- if nothing was rekindled.  Also, Anders would have to think SOMETHING was going on in order to ask you what you saw in him (though you can tell him there's nothing there).  

I actually am leaning towards it being left ambiguous on purpose.  That way you can have a Hawke that has moved on, and there's dialog that supports that, or you can have Hawke and Fenris with something going on, but a big unspoken thing between them, and there's dialog that supports that as well.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 mars 2011 - 11:00 .

[elenilote]

ejoslin wrote...

Actually, there's one line in the friendmace relationship that makes it sound like they were together (granted, rivalmance doesn't get this line).  Hawke says to him, "No matter what happens, I hope we stay together."  This doesn't sound like a make up line, it sounds like they ARE together and finally working stuff out.  Also, at the end of Alone when Hawke says, "You still have me," doesn't sound like "Let's make up, I've been wanted you all these years too."

I don't think they're intimate.  I don't even know if they would consider themselves together.  But something shifted somewhere to make him feel some sort of possessiveness.  It would be completely weird for someone who dumped you three years prior to get jealous if you try to hook up with someone -- jealous to the point where he put a stop to it.  Also, Anders would have to think SOMETHING was going on in order to ask you what you saw in him (though you can tell him there's nothing there).

I actually am leaning towards it being left ambiguous on purpose.  That way you can have a Hawke that has moved on, and there's dialog that supports that, or you can have Hawke and Fenris with something going on, but a big unspoken thing between them, and there's dialog that supports that as well.

This is how I would imagine it being too, you just said it better than me!

[Anarya]

@ejoslin: I did a rivalmance so I never got that line, but you can interpret that in a platonic way too.

Still, there was the "big unspoken thing" definitely going on between my Hawke and Fenris, I just don't think they were "officially" or physically together during that time, regardless of how you play it.

[zee Anjan]

I actually find it interesting that there are so spread views of what happens in those three years between the night they spent together and the reconcile. I guess the time gaps are good for that at least, giving us as players a chance to put our own touch upon their relationship.

I know my Hawke was sort of feeling like she must have done something wrong, that she somehow must have driven Fenris off. So she feels guilt ridden but still loves him very much. Him coming back to comfort her when her mother dies actually only helps to make both him and her more confused and uncertain of what they are feeling. Then Hawke duels the Arishok, and it was a hard battle that left her scarred and shaken (my character had been pretty dang confident of her own ability up to that point, but that battle was so hard with her that I just had to let it have a big impact on her as a person) and Fenris probably felt guilty for being the one that suggested the whole duel thing – despite Hawke not blaming him.

Three years pass by and I see them sort of walking around each other, not quite being able to talk straight with each other or really look each other in the eyes. Fenris puts his focus into finding his sister and when he finally finds her he feels like he can turn to no one else but Hawke – so he asks her to help him. And after that they sort of work things out…

But that’s sort of how I see it with my Hawk and her relationship with Fenris. I can point out as well that I have glanced over several details in this, but it’s pretty much a wall of text as it is… I know myself where I fit in Anders, Zevran and the rest and how it all works together.

Edit: Apparently my computer doesn't approve of me writing out my replies in Word and then pasting it in here. Should be fixed now though - I hope.

Edit Again: There now it shouldn't be a pain to read.

Modifié par zee Anjan, 25 mars 2011 - 11:12 .

[ejoslin]

Anarya wrote...

@ejoslin: I did a rivalmance so I never got that line, but you can interpret that in a platonic way too.

Still, there was the "big unspoken thing" definitely going on between my Hawke and Fenris, I just don't think they were "officially" or physically together during that time, regardless of how you play it.

I also don't think they were having sex (obviously) but that's not always what defines things.  I think the three year gap in a rivalmance may make more sense -- you're probably not seeing each other.

But what sticks to me about that, again, is Fenris being possessive when hawke flirts with Zevran and shutting that whole thing down (beyond weird if they're not in some sort of relationship and in fact have been broken up for three years) and Anders, in Justice, asking what Hawke sees in Fenris.

Of course, I got the "I left Hawke" conversation between Anders and Fenris in act 2, so three years later, if Anders is asking about the relationship, something had to have changed.  If you don't get that conversation until act 3, not so much so.

Edit: Again, I think it's ambiguous on purpose.  Either way can be supported through dialog, tbh.  It woudln't surprise me if the writer's intent was just a clean break for three years, but then both Zevran's and Anders' confrontations make no sense.  And I think the reconciliation does make sense either way -- they never did talk about the sexy night, whether they patched things up a bit or kept a distance.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 mars 2011 - 11:12 .

[Anarya]

ejoslin wrote...

Anarya wrote...

@ejoslin: I did a rivalmance so I never got that line, but you can interpret that in a platonic way too.

Still, there was the "big unspoken thing" definitely going on between my Hawke and Fenris, I just don't think they were "officially" or physically together during that time, regardless of how you play it.

I also don't think they were having sex (obviously) but that's not always what defines things.  I think the three year gap in a rivalmance may make more sense -- you're probably not seeing each other.

But what sticks to me about that, again, is Fenris being possessive when hawke flirts with Zevran and shutting that whole thing down (beyond weird if they're not in some sort of relationship and in fact have been broken up for three years) and Anders, in Justice, asking what Hawke sees in Fenris.

Of course, I got the "I left Hawke" conversation between Anders and Fenris in act 2, so three years later, if Anders is asking about the relationship, something had to have changed.  If you don't get that conversation until act 3, not so much so.

Edit: Again, I think it's ambiguous on purpose.  Either way can be supported through dialog, tbh.  It woudln't surprise me if the writer's intent was just a clean break for three years, but then both Zevran's and Anders' confrontations make no sense.  And I think the reconciliation does make sense either way -- they never did talk about the sexy night, whether they patched things up a bit or kept a distance.

I don't think the break is clean at all. I think maybe we both have the same opinion but are operating on different definitions of togetherness, because it sounds like it.

[Reznore57]

I think Anders might also want to know if Hawke is available ...
When he goes "surely you want someone more open minded..."
I always want to ask "you mean like you uh?"

[Sabriana]

I agree with the "purposely left ambiguous" part. For me, it means that something is still going on between them, but with all that's been left unsaid and not worked out, it's not a full coupleship. However, both know that they belong together.

Fenris' "I remain at your side" one-liner cements that for me, personally, and my imagination agrees with me on that. Although my Hawke would like nothing better than to prod him into explaining the "NIGHT", she shies away from it, just as he wants to tell her how he really feels and also shies away from it.

Three years is just too long, for nothing at all going on (again, for me, personally). My Hawke tells Fenris "I understand, I always understood." and that tells me that a deep, valuable friendship with the knowledge that the love is definitely there is going on in those years.

Btw, Fenris encourages the Arishok to duel Hawke? What? I'm guessing that this happens if Isabela doesn't come back? She did in my one and only complete play-through, and the Arishok challenged my girl for Isabela.

[ejoslin]

Oh, yeh, Fenris telling the Arishok to duel Hawke is great, at least for a Fem!Hawke.  You're right, it happens is Isabela doesn't come back (that's happened to me twice).  The Arishok is all put out because Hawke is a woman, but yeh, Fenris knows the Qun.  

I find that amazingly sexy about him for some reason. I would have loved to hear some banters between him and Sten.

Edit: And Sabriana, it probably comes as no surprise that I agree wtih you.  3 years is just too long.  1 year I could buy (at the outside), but not 3.  Even jealousy would make sense after 1 year (though still he would be out of line shutting that down if there wasn't some understanding between them), and Anders testing the waters.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 mars 2011 - 11:46 .

[SurrealSadi]

Sabriana wrote...

I agree with the "purposely left ambiguous" part. For me, it means that something is still going on between them, but with all that's been left unsaid and not worked out, it's not a full coupleship. However, both know that they belong together.

Fenris' "I remain at your side" one-liner cements that for me, personally, and my imagination agrees with me on that. Although my Hawke would like nothing better than to prod him into explaining the "NIGHT", she shies away from it, just as he wants to tell her how he really feels and also shies away from it.

Three years is just too long, for nothing at all going on (again, for me, personally). My Hawke tells Fenris "I understand, I always understood." and that tells me that a deep, valuable friendship with the knowledge that the love is definitely there is going on in those years.

Btw, Fenris encourages the Arishok to duel Hawke? What? I'm guessing that this happens if Isabela doesn't come back? She did in my one and only complete play-through, and the Arishok challenged my girl for Isabela.

Yeah, if Bela doesn't come back, Fenris says that because Hawke is Basalit-an, Hawke has the right to challenge the Arishok to a duel. If Hawke is female, the Arishok has a comment about how if Fen really knew the Qun, he wouldn't suggest the Arishok duel a female, to which Fen responds with, she's not a female since the Arishok named her Basalit-an.

Edit: And joslin ninja'd me.

Modifié par SurrealSadi, 25 mars 2011 - 11:43 .

[Heidenreich]

I always got the picture, at least for the friendmance, that they are still together and expressively NOT sleeping with each other. As if.. Its to early for me to think and I'm not going to explain this right..

In those three years, they've both, probably individually since they don't talk about that night, have decided that there really is just no one else in the whole of Thedas for either of them but each other. There even could have been a 'There's no body else I want, so if I can't fully have you, then knowing that I love you is going to just have to be enough.' conversation. Can you imagine the romance novel implications?

Trying not to kiss and touch him, but being oh-so-close and knowing he feels the same way about you.. never letting yourself be alone in a room with him for fear of that unspoken passion exploding? eh eh? *fans self*

Varric: Great game, Hawke. When did you get so good at cards?

Hawke: Isabela's been teaching me. I've got the sinking suspicion she's trying to sleep with me..

Fenris abruptly stands, dropping his cards to the table. Hawke glances up at him, the emotion in her eyes not quite reachign the rest of her face.

Fenris: Yes, well. Good night.

Varric: Hawke, you should walk the elf home. Its late and you don't know who'll try and assault him. All that broody squatting has earned him quite the fanclub with the noble teenaged girls. *chuckles and winks*

Hawke*quietly seething*: Alright..


Utterly silent walk home, standing far enough apart so they can't accidentally touch. Nom nom sexual tention I need to break out word and write this ..

Modifié par Heidenreich, 25 mars 2011 - 11:46 .

[Sabriana]

Oh darnit! I'm on Act II late, coming up on the duel. Isabela, you twit, why are we once again at ~ 90 friendship? Now I have to play it AGAIN, because I really want to see this "encouragement".

Oh well, I've not played a warrior Hawke yet, so I was going to play again anyways. Really I was. Honest. I"mnotlying.