55380 réponses à ce sujet

[elenilote]

Heidenreich wrote...

Ugh, be kind!

http://social.biowar...4529/blog/16933

I LIKE IT! Oh, I'm a sucker for all the angst... 

[Helen0rz]

@ejoslin

God yes! And it is because it doesn't make any sense that's making us want to explain it for ourselves. Well, like we've been saying 3 years is a longtime. All the valid and probable reasons will not change that, you know?

@zee anjan
Yeah...elees never appealed to me either, and I was the same with Zev. It is indeed a well written character with a convincig VA, but that was that for me. With Fenris, i had a hard time deciding who I wanted more at first. It is as you said, when he entered the scene (I had already decided at the time I was gonna romance Anders) I had doubts in my head, and Anders only got my first pt because he's a returning character. THen Anders broke my heart and I felt like an idiot, second pt romancing Fenris and I realize what I missed out on my first pt. Fenris is such well written character! Bait? What bait? Here, lemme help you with this, ima hook myself onto that hook, k?

[Badpie]

I did Alone first thing when I got to Act 3 because on my first playthrough it ended up being bugged so I couldn't do it at all. I wanted to make sure I got to it before I wasted hours of play in Act 3. So that happened first and Hawke and Fenris got together pretty much at the beginning of Act 3 for me.

[Addai]

zee Anjan wrote...
Hmm. Now you have me pondering things. i can't recall in what order I did the things in act III right now, but I did play through those scenes you mention and I can see your point in that it might not quite make sense in that order. But is it possible to do "Alone" and straighten things out with Fenris, then meet Zevran and do Anders companion quest for act III? Because played that way those responses fits a bit better, don't they?

Yes, on my replay I finished Alone before meeting Zevran or helping Anders collect poo.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 mars 2011 - 02:38 .

[Anarya]

I really think it's better to romance Anders first and then Fenris on a later play. I enjoy both of them but Anders' romance has a lot more impact if you don't know what's coming. Fenris is less connected to the main storyline.

I still can't decide which of them I like better.

[RPGmom28]

Anarya, you are so right. I did romance Anders on the first run, and there was supreme shock value. I even had my character tell him off and call him awful things. After that experience and finding out the lengths Anders would go to just to prove a point- ahem, change the world, whatever, Fenris seems like so much of a better choice. Not to mention he's incredibly sexy... yeah, that factors in quite a bit.

[zee Anjan]

Heidenreich wrote...

Ugh, be kind!

http://social.biowar...4529/blog/16933

Oh, not bad at all. I enjoyed reading it and you are sure braver then what I feel about my writing. I seem hardly able to share it even with close friends. So kudos for that.

[ejoslin]

zee Anjan wrote...

Hmm. Now you have me pondering things. i can't recall in what order I did the things in act III right now, but I did play through those scenes you mention and I can see your point in that it might not quite make sense in that order. But is it possible to do "Alone" and straighten things out with Fenris, then meet Zevran and do Anders companion quest for act III? Because played that way those responses fits a bit better, don't they?

Of course you can -- you can do the quests in whatever order you choose.  But actually, Anders confrontation has a response in it, "He left," which can show that things have not been resolved between them (though obviously, you do not have to pick that option -- it's a valid response, though, if you decide your Hawke and Fenris haven't made up in the slightest, but not all responses are appropriate for your Hawke).  So Anders, after three years, after being told three years prior that they had broken up, is questioning their relationship.  I don't know.  It's just weird.

I think a three month gap would have made perfect sense.  In three months, a jealousy response, while not appropriate, is not weird-creepy. And people asking, "Hey, what is going on between you two," is also not odd.  Of course, in three months you're not going to have a rebuilt city.  I think they could have made something more plausible for the relationship in that time.  If you take it as Hawke just waiting around for three years hoping the guy who had a one night stand with her comes around, it just doesn't make sense to me either.

Edit: Honestly, it makes less sense to me that Hawke would flirt with Zevran just after making up with Fenris.  After all, she's been waiting 3 years for him to come around -- why risk blowing it by flirting with this guy?

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 mars 2011 - 02:56 .

[Helen0rz]

@anarya

True true. I kid you not though, his action made me want to side me the Templars in that instance, and I got mad when orsino turn himself into a harvester...ugh....

I like Fenris more tho, because I've come to the realization that Anders is no longer Anders, with each arc progression he's less and less Anders, and he's just not the Anders I remember him to be. I saw a vid that was posted here where Justice told Hawke GTFO (I have yet to find out how to trigger that) in the middle of Anders and Hawke's conversation and it really reaffirms my view on him.

[Helen0rz]

@ejoslin

I agree. As much as I want to think the night they had was not a one night stand, it is...

[RPGmom28]

Not only was Anders more likable in Awakening, but Justice was too. They seem like two totally different characters in DA2.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Anarya wrote...

I really think it's better to romance Anders first and then Fenris on a later play. I enjoy both of them but Anders' romance has a lot more impact if you don't know what's coming. Fenris is less connected to the main storyline.

I still can't decide which of them I like better.

I wish I had romanced Anders in my first playthorugh just for that. 

[Ladivixxen]

Ok guys I must be missing something ... by time I hit act 3 I never have fenris at 100. I have a feeling that I missed something. I don't flirt with others and try to figure out which will give me the final 10 I need. I've started over twice cause it bugs me... suggestions? Would like to have him at 100 before act3

[ejoslin]

That's what head canon is for. I love Fenris' dialogs, and I love the premise of his story. It's just that part of the story makes no sense to me if you take it that they really stayed broken up. I think it is ambiguous, though; those quests make it seem like there's something more going on, as does Merrill teasing Fenris about him being in love. In fact, Merrill teasing him about that if they are kind of a couple takes on a whole new meaning.

[Helen0rz]

@rpgmom28

I guess this is where the explanation for 'vengeance' comes in

@everyone
We'll never get the answers we want :-/

[zee Anjan]

ejoslin wrote...
Of course you can -- you can do the quests in whatever order you choose.  But actually, Anders confrontation has a response in it, "He left," which kind of implies that things have not been resolved between them (though obviously, you do not have to pick that option -- it's a valid response, though, if you decide your Hawke and Fenris haven't made up in the slightest).  So Anders, after three years, after being told three years prior that they had broken up, is questioning their relationship.  I don't know.  It's just weird.

I think a three month gap would have made perfect sense.  In three months, a jealousy response, while not appropriate, is not weird-creepy. And people asking, "Hey, what is going on between you two," is also not odd.  Of course, in three months you're not going to have a rebuilt city.  I think they could have made something more plausible for the relationship in that time.  If you take it as Hawke just waiting around for three years hoping the guy who had a one night stand with her comes around, it just doesn't make sense to me either.

Edit: Honestly, it makes less sense to me that Hawke would flirt with Zevran just after making up with Fenris.  After all, she's been waiting 3 years for him to come around -- why risk blowing it by flirting with this guy?

Good to know my plan for this playthrough will work out then. The diffrent options might be there to let you respond to Anders no matter if you have reconciliated or not with Fenris. I do get what you mean about Anders though, it is a bit creepy that after three years he asks that question - why not soon after Fenris and Hawke gets together?
But I don't quite agree with you on the 3 month span being more belivable then 3 years. In my opinion 3 years might be pushing it a little, but 3 months would not be long enough to make it really feel like it was a big enough thing that happened.

As I said, I don't see it as my Hawke really just waited around for those three years. But she didn't move on and neither did Fenris. So I don't see it as their relationship being on hold for three years. Fenris did end the relationship when he walked out on her, but they have seen each other during this three year period, they have the same people they hang around with so its pretty much impossible for them to not have some sort of interaction with each other. The feelings are still there though - which might be why they don't move on...

Okay I think I repeated myself there a few times. -glares at cellphone- Not good when people call when you are in the middle of writing out a thought...

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

That's what head canon is for. I love Fenris' dialogs, and I love the premise of his story. It's just that part of the story makes no sense to me if you take it that they really stayed broken up. I think it is ambiguous, though; those quests make it seem like there's something more going on, as does Merrill teasing Fenris about him being in love. In fact, Merrill teasing him about that if they are kind of a couple takes on a whole new meaning.

I completely agree. When Aveline asks my Hawke

"What about you and Fenris, how do you get through the dangers..." (the long road)

the look on my Hawke's face when she replies "Maybe we are not the best example" breaks my heart.

My head canon includes quite a few references/occurences which tell me that there was definitely something going on in those 3 years to keep my Hawke from making a clean cut and moving on.

[Fault Girl]

Heidenreich wrote...

Ugh, be kind!

http://social.biowar...4529/blog/16933

I need more!!!!

[Fault Girl]

With my Hawke, she knew that fenris loved her but needed ALOT of time. emphasis on a lot.

I think if you meet someone who you truly love, you can wait.

Not sure I could be that patient in real life but my Hawke would wait for eternity for Fenris.

:wizard:

Modifié par ZombieGeisha, 25 mars 2011 - 03:09 .

[zee Anjan]

-sighes- Just started "All That Remains" on this playthrough. I have this strong feeling it will feel even worse this time around since I know how much of an impact that quest did have on my Hawke the first time. Not to mention how I got stuck on the scene with Fenris afterwards...

Watch me feel a need to rewrite what I have written about that scene before I am done with this quest... Just to make it even more awful for my poor Nadira Hawke...

[vedlingtonii]

You know what? I think that the three-year time-skip was added after most of the romance dialogue and etc. was completed. Notice how you don't get to choose your response when Fenris says "we never talked about what happened"? It seems very likely that they added that quick exchange and a few other comments after they had settled for the time-skip. The writers could have decided that it simply wasn't realistic for all the main-plot-related tension to develop over three to four years. They had to do some quick retcon work when it came to the relationships.

For instance does it make sense that Isabella stayed in Kirkwall for FOUR YEARS while she was searching for the relic, which in the end... was still in Kirkwall? She's a freakin' pirate. How would she even remotely have that attention span?

EDIT: And would it really have taken Fenris more than three years to convince his sister to come see him?

ALSO:  Most referrences to the three-year-skip come in the Isabella/Varric and Aveline conversations with Fenris before Hawke gets to talk to him, and Hawke never has a chance to respond. More evidence that it was added last-minute after the actual romantic  dialogue was completed. Even with Anders you only get a little comment added into establish dialogue.

Modifié par vedlingtonii, 25 mars 2011 - 03:20 .

[Sabriana]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

Ugh, be kind!

http://social.biowar...4529/blog/16933

I need more!!!!

Indeed. Very nice, Heidenreich, very nice indeed. Keep going, I beg you.

[ejoslin]

vedlingtonii wrote...

You know what? I think that the three-year time-skip was added after most of the romance dialogue and etc. was completed. Notice how you don't get to choose your response when Fenris says "we never talked about what happened"? It seems very likely that they added that quick exchange and a few other comments after they had settled for the time-skip. The writers could have decided that it simply wasn't realistic for all the main-plot-related tension to develop over three to four years. They had to do some quick retcon work when it came to the relationships.

For instance does it make sense that Isabella stayed in Kirkwall for FOUR YEARS while she was searching for the relic, which in the end... was still in Kirkwall? She's a freakin' pirate. How would she even remotely have that attention span?

I suspect you're right. While I see 3 months as feeling about right, I can actually see it taking up to a year, but really, any longer just doesn't make sense.  I can't see waiting three years for a guy who had sex and then dumped you immediately afterwards without knowing he will come around and refusees completely to talk about it -- that just strikes me as...  I dunno.  Just weird.

That Anders and Merrill don't move in until 3 years after you agree to also supports that originally there wasn't supposed to be that big a time skip.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 mars 2011 - 03:22 .

[Fault Girl]

ejoslin wrote...

vedlingtonii wrote...

You know what? I think that the three-year time-skip was added after most of the romance dialogue and etc. was completed. Notice how you don't get to choose your response when Fenris says "we never talked about what happened"? It seems very likely that they added that quick exchange and a few other comments after they had settled for the time-skip. The writers could have decided that it simply wasn't realistic for all the main-plot-related tension to develop over three to four years. They had to do some quick retcon work when it came to the relationships.

For instance does it make sense that Isabella stayed in Kirkwall for FOUR YEARS while she was searching for the relic, which in the end... was still in Kirkwall? She's a freakin' pirate. How would she even remotely have that attention span?

I suspect you're right. While I see 3 months as feeling about right, I can actually see it taking up to a year, but really, any longer just doesn't make sense.  I can't see waiting three years for a guy who had sex and then dumped you immediately afterwards without knowing he will come around and refusees completely to talk about it -- that just strikes me as...  I dunno.  Just weird.

That Anders and Merrill don't move in until 3 years after you agree to also supports that originally there wasn't supposed to be that big a time skip.

Some good points there...

Did they the 10 year plot from the beginning do you think?

or maybe they decided to spread the romances out? the moving in issue is silly, 3 years for a key?!

Unless key cutters took that long back in the days

[vedlingtonii]

ejoslin wrote...

vedlingtonii wrote...

You know what? I think that the three-year time-skip was added after most of the romance dialogue and etc. was completed. Notice how you don't get to choose your response when Fenris says "we never talked about what happened"? It seems very likely that they added that quick exchange and a few other comments after they had settled for the time-skip. The writers could have decided that it simply wasn't realistic for all the main-plot-related tension to develop over three to four years. They had to do some quick retcon work when it came to the relationships.

For instance does it make sense that Isabella stayed in Kirkwall for FOUR YEARS while she was searching for the relic, which in the end... was still in Kirkwall? She's a freakin' pirate. How would she even remotely have that attention span?

I suspect you're right. While I see 3 months as feeling about right, I can actually see it taking up to a year, but really, any longer just doesn't make sense.  I can't see waiting three years for a guy who had sex and then dumped you immediately afterwards without knowing he will come around and refusees completely to talk about it -- that just strikes me as...  I dunno.  Just weird.

That Anders and Merrill don't move in until 3 years after you agree to also supports that originally there wasn't supposed to be that big a time skip.

My theory is that they were all supposed to be 1-year skips, just like Act I, and then they either:
1. Realized halfway through that the main plot didn't work that way.
2. Actually planned to have more Acts fill up those gaps but couldn't get to them due to time constraints.

Bioware was obviously under the gun. They wanted to release more DAO expansions but were forced/pressured to move on to DA2 right away. I'm sure they were forced to abandon plots and bend things to make it all fit into something as linear as they could.

Modifié par vedlingtonii, 25 mars 2011 - 03:28 .