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The Official Fenris Discussion thread


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#32076
WMRina

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Macabre Chaos wrote...

Miserysky wrote...

I think the game tried to be grey, but in the end you made a black and white choice: Side with Orsino or side with Meredith. It's not even really about siding with mages or templars. There is no real diplomatic solution, or one where mages aren't presented as crazy lunatics (Orsino, Grace, Anders, DuPuis). I felt no real ambivalence for siding with the templars, even as a mage. Fenris is right. Mages are bad. I wish I could have made Orsino and Meredith fight each other while I drank a bottle of Danarius's wine.


I agree. I am awful when it comes to making choices... Both in-game and in real life. -___- In DA:O I was actually a mage sympathizer, but the events of DA2 are actually leading me to side more with the Templars, which I never would have guessed I would do when I began the game.


So did my Warden (side with the mages), but that's because the Circle in Fereldan had at least more than a handful of mages that weren't bat-**** crazy (Wynne? Irving? I know there were more, I think they all died.), plus they helped *alot* during the battle with the Archdemon.  It's too bad, I really liked Orsino, and I agree with the "You have GOT to be kidding me!!!!!!! ***** Fenris, you were ****ing right!" reaction I had at the end of DA2.  My Hawke sided with the mages b/c she thought Orsino wasn't a crazy MF who might actually see reason and compromise, and because she didn't want Bethany and other decent mages to be killed for Anders' crime (after all, Bethany as far as we know never succumbed to blood magic and the like).  She was wrong, but oh well.  There it was, and Fenris stuck around despite how crazy it was.  :blush:

Modifié par WMRina, 27 mars 2011 - 03:52 .


#32077
Maera Imrov

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I went into DA2 wanting or intending to side with the mages. And I still did, but at the end I felt like I did it only because I'd tried to save them all through the game. But oddly enough, I, too, began to feel as Fenris did. While there were mages who did not go evil, did not turn to demons and blood magic, soooo many around you did. It was like the whole ****ing Circle of Kirkwall was bat**** insane. And you can blame the grip of the templars all you like, but selling your soul for freedom doesn't set you free at all.

I find it very hard to sympathize with them, despite being a mage sympathizer in DAO and the early parts of DA2. Honestly, in the rest of my playthroughs, as draconic as Meredith can be, I'll probably side with the Templars. To see each of those mages so easily go belly up and cry to the demons just makes me nauseous.

#32078
DemonSaya

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I actually suspected Orisno's being not a good guy when I saw the 'Letter From the Circle' during "All that Remains". It was sighed 'Your friend, -O' or something to that effect. Then I met Orsino and it didn't click...until the second playthrough, when I sided with the templars and got the 'Hey, that ****** killed my mumsie' option.

WTF, Orsino. WTF. I still tend to side with the mages, because I DO think Meredith is TOO much. But I enjoy killing Orsino every time.

#32079
silentstephi

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I think keeping all the mages inside a dungeon was a bad idea.

Other than the epic challenge of not being hypocritical and yet still able to Friendmance Fenris as a mage, I still think his stance that all mages are evil is still ultimately wrong.

I'm not one to criticize someone for making snap judgements and being cautious. But he's hostile, and I'm not sure if that changes if you Rival him (does it get worse?) and the situation mages are in is not going to foster any understanding of them at all.

The whole situation is centuries of built up mistrust and abuse, on both sides. It's hard to give the actions of Thedas any sort of real world correspondence because we really don't have a situation where folks have this inborn 'power' to do horrible things to folks. Sure, normal folks can do some pretty sick and insane things, but... this is different.

So the situation, sucks. And really, Anders was in the powder keg of Thedas. Fenris gives you that perspective of hey, it's not sunshine and bunny farts when mages are following their own interpretation of the Chant.

So the Chant has got to go.

I agree with the revolution. I just wish Elthanie hadn't had to die for it.

Um... er, what was I saying? I think I got way off topic, sorry. -.-

EDIT:  PS - I can't get into how disappointed I am with Orsino.  I'm really irked that they just railroaded that character descision on you.  ERG. -.-

Modifié par silentstephi, 27 mars 2011 - 04:13 .


#32080
Tasmen

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DemonSaya wrote...

I actually suspected Orisno's being not a good guy when I saw the 'Letter From the Circle' during "All that Remains". It was sighed 'Your friend, -O' or something to that effect. Then I met Orsino and it didn't click...until the second playthrough, when I sided with the templars and got the 'Hey, that ****** killed my mumsie' option.

WTF, Orsino. WTF. I still tend to side with the mages, because I DO think Meredith is TOO much. But I enjoy killing Orsino every time.


We aren't all blood mages!!! no no we aren't!!! Oh hey, guess what?  I'm gonna do this ritual.  It's blood magic but it doesn't count so nyaaaaah! and oh yeah, I helped the man that killed your mommy.  *psycho mage powers activate*  Form of a puffer-fish!

I was certainly filled with a case of the WTFs.  Yep.

#32081
Badpie

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Tasmen wrote...

 *psycho mage powers activate*  Form of a puffer-fish!



LMAO

#32082
SurrealSadi

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Tasmen wrote...

DemonSaya wrote...

I actually suspected Orisno's being not a good guy when I saw the 'Letter From the Circle' during "All that Remains". It was sighed 'Your friend, -O' or something to that effect. Then I met Orsino and it didn't click...until the second playthrough, when I sided with the templars and got the 'Hey, that ****** killed my mumsie' option.

WTF, Orsino. WTF. I still tend to side with the mages, because I DO think Meredith is TOO much. But I enjoy killing Orsino every time.


We aren't all blood mages!!! no no we aren't!!! Oh hey, guess what?  I'm gonna do this ritual.  It's blood magic but it doesn't count so nyaaaaah! and oh yeah, I helped the man that killed your mommy.  *psycho mage powers activate*  Form of a puffer-fish!

I was certainly filled with a case of the WTFs.  Yep.

This was a serious WTF moment....

#32083
DemonSaya

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I know I posted this already, but it's become relevant again:
http://fishmas.devia...t.com/#/d3c451x

#32084
Riona45

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DemonSaya wrote...

I know I posted this already, but it's become relevant again:
http://fishmas.devia...t.com/#/d3c451x


That picture is a scream.Posted Image

#32085
DemonSaya

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The person who drew it is my hero. Seriously.

#32086
WMRina

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Riona45 wrote...

DemonSaya wrote...

I know I posted this already, but it's become relevant again:
http://fishmas.devia...t.com/#/d3c451x


That picture is a scream.Posted Image


Yep, that was exactly my reaction.  Ultimate facepalm.

Orsino:  Thank you, Champion, for siding with us!  We might actually stand a chance against the Templars.  Oh wait, sorry, I have to throw a ***** fit now.  We're all doomed!  And even though I've spent the last 3 years trying to convince Meredith we don't all do blood magic, I'ma do a blood magic ritual nao k"

Kekeke this will surely help the mages of Thedas!~ *Turns into abomination*



Fenris: *Looks at Hawke.* "......"

Hawke:  *Eyes Fenris with the best  "Don't say it." look.*

Fenris: *shrugs* RAWR! 

Modifié par WMRina, 27 mars 2011 - 04:57 .


#32087
valuhree

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I went through the whole game helping the mages, and then Anders was like "hey guess where I just was?" "lol where" CHANTRY EXPLOSION. Seriously pissed me off. I ended up siding with the templars out of utter complete rage and the realization that basically every mage in the Free Marches is bat **** insane. And of course, I went through the entire ending going, "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUU-. Of course Fenris was right. Fffffffffffff-."

#32088
UltiPup

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Anders, such the user. Betraying my trust? Hawke does not take backstabbers back.

Effing Fenris why are you right about the wrong things URGH

derp I just told Meredith all of the people who turned on me during Best Served Cold. Eff all of them. I have an opinion, they kidnap my brother. I give no ****s anymore.

Modifié par UltiPup, 27 mars 2011 - 05:03 .


#32089
DemonSaya

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My Hawke returns the favor to said backstabbers. By stabbing them in the back (or letting them hang dry). I may be evil, but when he showed up my last 'pro-mage' playthrough at the ending fight after being shown the road in the first place, I checked both responses, reloaded, then sent him packing. He looked so crushed.
I was actually impressed with the amount of restraint Fenris showed in the end. He didn't rub it in Hawke's face that he was right. Well, I'd imagine that lasted until they were somewhat safe.

Granted, I think that if the Templars came knocking for Hawke, Fenris would have been the first slicing them in half for her...

#32090
dangereusegirl

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I felt bad when I told Anders to GTFO and he came back to fight me (since I sided with the templars for that particular walkthrough). 'Cause he'd been my primary mage through the entire game, and he saw how bad*** my rogue was and still he challenged me. The two seconds it took to kill him were so sad.

And I was playing DA2, trying to get the romance scene, but when Fen came to my house, the romance option was not availible. Which makes me sad, 'cause now I have to wait around until tomorrow to see if the non-glowy kiss will trigger.

I'm torn as to which romance scene I prefer. On the one hand, the glowy kiss scene doesn't have that awkward animation that non glowy kiss has. And it fits with the rivalmances that I love to play.

On the other hand, the non glowy kiss doesn't make it look like my Hawke is attacking Fen. I felt so bad the first time I had the glowy kiss, because it looked like I was violating Fenris. If you look at that scene, the look on his face as the camera pans screams "DO NOT WANT!!!!"

Made me really sad.

#32091
UltiPup

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Ok so do I kill Anders or let him go? If I let him go, Sebastian says WAR! I don't know if that is really what could happen or if he is just blowing smoke. I have killed Anders already and let him live ( sided with mages ).

#32092
DemonSaya

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@ Dangereusegirl-You sound sad when you talk about it ;p But not really. That scene never really bothered me. It probably happened fast after the initial kiss that he didn't know what to think. LOL I like the fact that Hawke can sometimes surprise him ^.-

@UltiPup-If you let him go, he shows up at the final fight, anyways. If you side Templars, it's a fight, if you side Mages, he tries to get back in your good graces and have to send him away AGAIN. >.>; I'm starting my 'dick' playthrough (hypocrite special, anyone? I'm playing an apostate siding with the Templars.)  I think I'll let Anders live this time. I've never had any of my party turn on me (besides Bella, who didn't show up to give the Arashok his big book TWICE).

Modifié par DemonSaya, 27 mars 2011 - 05:40 .


#32093
dangereusegirl

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Its the face. That face of his always gets me.

#32094
ThatDancingTurian

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silentstephi wrote...

I think keeping all the mages inside a dungeon was a bad idea.

Other than the epic challenge of not being hypocritical and yet still able to Friendmance Fenris as a mage, I still think his stance that all mages are evil is still ultimately wrong.

I'm not one to criticize someone for making snap judgements and being cautious. But he's hostile, and I'm not sure if that changes if you Rival him (does it get worse?) and the situation mages are in is not going to foster any understanding of them at all.

To be fair he does concede that not all mages are evil... just all of the ones he met before Hawke. :P

He even says 'it doesn't take all mages to do this'. All it takes is a few of them. And basically the game proved him right in almost every mage-related quest, so... Yeah.

Also, he's not openly hostile in the way Anders is openly hostile about templars. He hates magic, but he doesn't want to go out on a mage-murdering spree and bathe in their blood. He simply thinks they are dangerous and that in general they can't be trusted, and to be honest he's right about that. Apostates are like desperate, cornered animals, they'll turn on anyone for their own survival. Which is why the system doesn't work.

My mage!Hawke is an idealist. She'll keep fighting for mage freedom, even if all they do is screw her over constantly and become abominations.

@DemonSaya: I played a pro-Templar apostate for my second game. She was aggressively anti-blood mage and always sent apostates to the Circle, rival-romanced Anders, and then she executed Anders after he used her and she realized there was nothing left inside him but a monster. Probably had a mental breakdown post-game, I imagine she volunteered for tranquility at the end because her life was in shambles.

#32095
DemonSaya

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Aris Ravenstar wrote...

silentstephi wrote...

I think keeping all the mages inside a dungeon was a bad idea.

Other than the epic challenge of not being hypocritical and yet still able to Friendmance Fenris as a mage, I still think his stance that all mages are evil is still ultimately wrong.

I'm not one to criticize someone for making snap judgements and being cautious. But he's hostile, and I'm not sure if that changes if you Rival him (does it get worse?) and the situation mages are in is not going to foster any understanding of them at all.

To be fair he does concede that not all mages are evil... just all of the ones he met before Hawke. :P

He even says 'it doesn't take all mages to do this'. All it takes is a few of them. And basically the game proved him right in almost every mage-related quest, so... Yeah.

Also, he's not openly hostile in the way Anders is openly hostile about templars. He hates magic, but he doesn't want to go out on a mage-murdering spree and bathe in their blood. He simply thinks they are dangerous and that in general they can't be trusted, and to be honest he's right about that. Apostates are like desperate, cornered animals, they'll turn on anyone for their own survival. Which is why the system doesn't work.

My mage!Hawke is an idealist. She'll keep fighting for mage freedom, even if all they do is screw her over constantly and become abominations.

@DemonSaya: I played a pro-Templar apostate for my second game. She was aggressively anti-blood mage and always sent apostates to the Circle, rival-romanced Anders, and then she executed Anders after he used her and she realized there was nothing left inside him but a monster. Probably had a mental breakdown post-game, I imagine she volunteered for tranquility at the end because her life was in shambles.


I tried to tell myself to rival-mance Anders.  I really did.  But I saw bait and switch pop up in the book and I keep wondering what WOULD happen to Fenris if I don't show up there.  Damn Deus Ex.  That and I don't think I can make it through this game without Fenris in it.  It's that voice.
Audio-porn indeed.

#32096
ThatDancingTurian

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DemonSaya wrote...

I tried to tell myself to rival-mance Anders.  I really did.  But I saw bait and switch pop up in the book and I keep wondering what WOULD happen to Fenris if I don't show up there.  Damn Deus Ex.  That and I don't think I can make it through this game without Fenris in it.  It's that voice.
Audio-porn indeed.

lol! I romanced him first, I just moved on to Anders after he left Hawke. ;)

I actually thought Anders' rivalmance was slightly more bearable than the friendmance, but not by much. I still can't get over the fact that he literally says, "I don't know whether to kiss you or kill you." That's the most uninspired way to describe a love-hate relationship ever.

#32097
Helen0rz

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Addai67 wrote...
Both have their appeal.  I wish I had gotten the glowy one as a surprise in game rather than hearing about it on the forum first- I'm sure I would have been shouting at the screen.  It's so dramatic and... hot.  But I do still like the other better.  Like Badpie (lol at your name) said, it's Fenris coming to Hawke, and not Hawke mauling him after what was a very trying experience for him.  The glowy scene does make his running out more understandable.


And that's why it's so hard to choose, both have their appeals and ultimately they're caused by different decisions with the same outcome.

silentstephi wrote...
I miss when, in the BW games, you could just be the PC and the NPCs fell for you just by being that way and not because of 'do x thing to get y reaction.'

It feels a bit more organic to me. It's also why the face nomming Anders did was such a pleasant (and ngl, hot) way to go about their tragicmance.

Liara may have been all pouty that I'd go Kaidan or celebate (for Gar in game 2), but ninja mance... all the way.


(Sorry that I'm condensing your quote!)

I know what you mean. I think I'm drawn to all this because there's this NPC initiative that are given because of something you did before and not a "because I'm doing this right now so the result will be this". It's like Fenris' final kiss during The Last Straw, none of us was expecting that...and it was refreshing, it was great. It completes the romance not only because it is so, it's because his action gives you that impression, you know? (on a unrelated note: as for Kaiden...I wish ME1 had more/better romance options...because Kaiden was my only choice because...it was what was there)

Maera Imrov wrote...

I went into DA2 wanting or intending to side with the mages. And I still did, but at the end I felt like I did it only because I'd tried to save them all through the game. But oddly enough, I, too, began to feel as Fenris did. While there were mages who did not go evil, did not turn to demons and blood magic, soooo many around you did. It was like the whole ****ing Circle of Kirkwall was bat**** insane. And you can blame the grip of the templars all you like, but selling your soul for freedom doesn't set you free at all. 


This...I think that's where the writers did that on purpose. the Circle and the templar's objective and ideas were much more clear in DA:O, whereas in DA2 it's a bit grayed out. I really enjoyed the huge twist at the end, where it became very clear that no one is the good guy, not even Hawke. Everybody was out for themselves, no matter how "noble" you are or tries to be, you know? Being a hero/champion is great, but I like having other purposes...something that ultimately takes me to the top but only because I wanted to.

DemonSaya wrote...
I actually suspected Orisno's being not a good guy when I saw the 'Letter From the Circle' during "All that Remains". It was sighed 'Your friend, -O' or something to that effect. Then I met Orsino and it didn't click...until the second playthrough, when I sided with the templars and got the 'Hey, that ****** killed my mumsie' option.

WTF, Orsino. WTF. I still tend to side with the mages, because I DO think Meredith is TOO much. But I enjoy killing Orsino every time.


Same here. It didn't click until I sided with the templars in my 2nd pt as well. funny thing, at the end of my 1st when I sided with the mages, he said something about Quentin and I remember thinking "um, who?" In my 2nd pt though, it was very "you've GOT to be KIDDING me here..." And as much as I think Anders and Orsino made me feel as though everything I've done has been worthless since they're all going to go crazy anyways...I do think it's inevitable, the war between mages and templars, whether Anders/Orsino/Meredith plays a part in it or not.

#32098
Helen0rz

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WMRina wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

DemonSaya wrote...

I know I posted this already, but it's become relevant again:
http://fishmas.devia...t.com/#/d3c451x


That picture is a scream.Posted Image


Yep, that was exactly my reaction.  Ultimate facepalm.

Orsino:  Thank you, Champion, for siding with us!  We might actually stand a chance against the Templars.  Oh wait, sorry, I have to throw a ***** fit now.  We're all doomed!  And even though I've spent the last 3 years trying to convince Meredith we don't all do blood magic, I'ma do a blood magic ritual nao k"

Kekeke this will surely help the mages of Thedas!~ *Turns into abomination*


Fenris: *Looks at Hawke.* "......"

Hawke:  *Eyes Fenris with the best  "Don't say it." look.*

Fenris: *shrugs* RAWR! 


may I add this to Orsino's quote?

"Even though you siding with us mages, Champion, which means it's win-win situation for us all, I still think it's VERY necessary for me to shed some blood just to prove a point that does not help anyone but my enemies!"


UltiPup wrote...

Ok so do I kill Anders or let him go? If I let him go, Sebastian says WAR! I don't know if that is really what could happen or if he is just blowing smoke. I have killed Anders already and let him live ( sided with mages ).


What DemonSaya said.

however...I personally though Sebastian was just bluffing, or he's just ...being immature and will not follow up on his threat but it does not appear so. In the Sebastian support group threat, Jennifer (who I guess wrote Sebastian?) said that his story does not end there...So i suspect a DLC involving his threat (provided that you didn't kill Anders, so I don't know how it's gonna work) or he might make a big return in DA3, perhaps as someone we must fight?

#32099
valuhree

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@ dangereusegirl

i114.photobucket.com/albums/n258/highway377/girlplz.png

or

i114.photobucket.com/albums/n258/highway377/betchplz.png

... or am I missing the face? because I totally know what you're talking about. ^_^

NEVERMIND! It's neither. It's the frightened face right before Hawke pounces him. My bad!

Modifié par valuhree, 27 mars 2011 - 06:24 .


#32100
ThatDancingTurian

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Helen0rz wrote...

however...I personally though Sebastian was just bluffing, or he's just ...being immature and will not follow up on his threat but it does not appear so. In the Sebastian support group threat, Jennifer (who I guess wrote Sebastian?) said that his story does not end there...So i suspect a DLC involving his threat (provided that you didn't kill Anders, so I don't know how it's gonna work) or he might make a big return in DA3, perhaps as someone we must fight?

Really? I just assumed he was saying it out of grief. The only family he had left was just brutally, pointlessly and senselessly murdered. Anders is his Quentin, and Hawke, his only living friend, is protecting him.

I'm actually happy his story isn't over though, he seemed a little... incomplete. Plus I'm trying to romance him in my third game, so it'll be interesting to see if that goes anywhere (Maker give me strength to resist that hot Tevinter elf...)

RE: Orsino. I think even at the end he downplayed his connection to Quentin to make himself look like a victim. If you read the note he sent, it states that he gave books on necromancy to Quentin and said he was "intrigued" by his research. Nothing in that note said that he was concerned about Quentin's dark path and just trying to hide him away from Meredith for the sake of the innocent mages. He wasn't just turning a blind eye, he was encouraging him.

That alone makes it really hard for me to side with him and the mages. Really both sides are the same, people just seem to have more trouble with killing nameless innocent mages than nameless innocent templars. I think it may be the stormtrooper thing, you see someone in a uniform and it's easier to dehumanize them.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 27 mars 2011 - 06:24 .